Starting Funds

Wes

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#21
If you want to eliminate confusion, communicate your intentions clearly to the people making characters. In general, a CCG should try to address every blank on the character biography form. I'm simply asking you to add a section that explains finances and inventory to people that want to build a Nepleslian character.
 

Aendri

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#22
I think the point is that this shouldn't be a change to the whole site. It's obvious not everyone agrees with the change. If Wes wants to take it out of the process for Yamataian characters, that's one thing, but don't change the process for other factions without their input. I think it makes much more sense the way it is. No, your possessions don't define your character. Does it make it fun to actually include stuff that can come up in conversation though? Definitely. It's like me including the purchased set of chef's gear for an infantry soldier I made. I didn't plan on her ever actually cooking much of anything IC, because that's not her job. But she enjoys cooking, so she owns her own stuff for her own sake. Possessions are a fun way to add detail, or conversation points, without wasting tons of time justifying them IC. It's a lot easier to talk about why you have that set of Elysian swords you bought from a salvage crew than it is to justify your backstory including you beating the crap out of some random Elysian officer and taking them, for example.
 

Wes

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#23
Aendri: The whole point of the funds is to have all characters start out with equal resources. So if we had eliminated it in Yamatai, it would not be fair for Nepleslia to still have it too. That said, I'm pretty sure we already reached a consensus not to eliminate starting funds on page one of this thread (not sure where you get "without input" from considering this thread is a call for opinions).

The current topic of discussion is how to improve how those funds work. For me, I would prefer to have players skip buying things at character creation. Sigma would rather they be encouraged to buy things. Either way, every CCG needs to be looked at to make sure that there is some guidance for new players to tell them what is expected. I've handled Yamatai's and I would like other factions to do the same.
 

Aendri

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#24
Players are already allowed to skip the funds entirely if they want to. I can name a goodly number of characters who never even touched their starting funds. We require them to put the correct amount, yes, but that's about it. If they want to spend it, they can, leave it, they can. I'm completely in favor of detailing HOW they can spend it, but don't push it to the background just for the sake of a few people. I've had a couple people ask me what they were allowed to get with it, but that's about it, so de-emphasizing it doesn't seem needed to me. It's already close to entirely ignored by the grand majority of new players.

And your response to the input you received was that you're going to "encourage players to ignore it". Which is basically the same thing as just removing it, since it puts players in the mindset that it has no purpose, and is just fluff, nothing more. There's a big difference between telling people to ignore it, and reassuring players that they don't need to use it.
 

Wes

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#25
Even before this thread, the Neko CCG basically said "it's likely that your character will have little, if any, personal possessions." Encouraging players to ignore the starting funds until they get in the RP is a clarification, not a change. In practice, almost all players ignore it anyway.

it puts players in the mindset that it has no purpose, and is just fluff, nothing more.
It is just fluff and rarely has a purpose for military characters. That's why I proposed removing the dollar value and just saying "write in personal items if you want to" at the start of this thread. Because it's a pain to try to find non-military items or prices for things on the wiki, and it slows down making a character during that critical time when the player doesn't have his roots down yet.

I don't mind if other factions encourage inventory development as part of their CCG, but I think it's superfluous and adds complication to an already very detailed character sheet. Additionally, if you want players to spend that starter gear, they need a list of things to spend it on, which is a challenge when the standard issue and ship supplies cover their needs so well already.
 

Doshii Jun

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#26
I'm chief character mod.

My policy — which I'll put up in the forum — is that spending starter funds is not a requirement for a character to get approved. That's it.

If players want to spend the money and equip the chars, they can do so. If they want to wait, they can do so.

If a GM of a plot that's going to accept a character wants to tell the player to equip the character with some stuff, that's the GM's right and I won't intrude on it.
 

Wes

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#27
I went through all the CCGs to see which ones need some updating with regards to at least explaining how starting funds and gear works:

CCGs that addressed it:

  • Nekovalkyrja
  • Yamataian
  • Iroma (starting funds are slightly too high)
  • Neshaten

CCGs that don't have any info on starter funds or inventory:

  • Nepleslian
  • Abwehran
  • Elysian
  • Gartagen
  • Freespacers
  • Azoreans
  • Kohanians (CCG has no information, just a template)
  • Lorath
  • Separa'Shan

For the latter ones, we need to get them updated.

I'm also interested to hear everyone's ideas about what some good recommended items might be for starting characters.

So far, I've come up with:

  • Civilian clothing (useful for shore leave)
  • Branded bath products
  • Software/games/literature
  • Candy
  • Booze (?)
  • An AI companion (might be too expensive for new characters)
  • Cabin decorations
 

Wes

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#29
As I walked through the rain today, it occurred to me that a black regulation umbrella would be a good start item for Star Army of Yamatai troops. I'm thinking I may consolidate some of these ideas and make a small "store" for starting characters. Backpacks, bags, and kits would be good too.

Sigma: For the Nepleslian CCG, why not link to the 4th Fleet Ship Store as possible items to buy with starter cash?
 

Moogle

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#30
Wes said:
As a side note, Star Army could also use more things to spend money on.
Like candy? A little off topic, maybe, but there really does need to be more civvie companies for players to buy things from. I was planning to have Seiren (My character from the phoenix) to start a candy-making company sometime in the future.

EDIT: And actually, the Lors do include money somewhere on their page. It's under "Starting Items" in the form of an electronic money card.
 

Edto Xar'Sivaree

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#31
In regards to Starting Funds, there are two other things that I think could benefit from the addition of Starting Fund info.

What can be the starting fund of an Approved Corperation ((Or approved net worth))
And what can be the starting fund for a Faction ((Or approved net worth))

If an economy exists, and Factions/corperations get approved, then this would be good information to think about. Companies are worth more based on how much product they sell, and government are worth more depending on how many companies stage their operations through them.

What would be the starting Total Worth?
 
A

ArsenicJohn

#33
I feel like the 3000 KS for new civilian characters is not enough. Sure you can go into debt but who wants that? In a pirate plot, you can spend that 3k pretty quickly on guns and armor. That heavily limits the kind of enemies you can effectively fight in a boarding operation. Would the right solution be for the ship to provide more starting funds?

At the moment I have noticed almost everyone ignores the finances of their characters. Some independent plots like 188604 are one place where it's looked at a little, but generally Zack just gives people money. Perhaps Wes had the right idea- maybe the guide should just say you can get a few personal items, a gun, and some armor within reason for a character of their age, profession, and history?
 
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Kim

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#34
Oh necromancy. So as a long time player- my characters rarely got the chance at the beginning to really spend any of their money. So it's only now that I've come back to these characters that I'm going, "WOW, what should they buy?" They have houses and other things that they have never seen. The prestige system was good for not having to sorry about inventory management.

But yes, civilian characters would have to be examined for why they have things. Certain things can be hand waved based on GM discretion for what they want inside of their plot.
 
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Ethereal

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#35
I was thinking of doing something with banking where players can increase their starting funds by taking out a loan or something. Just an idea but that's how people get money IRL
 
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Legix

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#36
I was thinking of doing something with banking where players can increase their starting funds by taking out a loan or something. Just an idea bit that's how people get money IRL
This is actually how Shinpi started. Ronin took out a big loan when he found a crashed Kouken, fixed it up (using even half of his own Garuda), and then set out to hunt bounties because it tends to pay the most. Loans and GM discretion are definitely tools that exist and have been used, especially since I know Ronin ain't the first to take things on loans.

I think the real thing is that for all the civilian products... not many of them actually get to see use as personal equipment. This was part of the reason I set out rooms on the Shinpi, for example, so that people could decorate their own rooms (though I need to update/assign rooms for the much larger roster), since I figured there'd be trinkets, looted guns, and the like to decorate it in-place of a house.
 

Whitehart

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#37
Starting funds are instrumental in Character creation in my opinion. Obviously if you have a reason and the gm waves it, it can be manipulated but without starting funds and oversight players will start with the Uber awesomest of things.

Progression is a tried and true aspect to Character development. That person just starting out in their chosen path should have limited resources. Even a mega cool pirate just joining up with a crew, while maybe was the best ever previously may only have his 3k worth of gear left to his name thanks to rent and actually living (eating, sexing, travelling) since that is what the starting fund is about. It's not how much you have to your name it is also what you are left with after actually being a living person.