Star Army
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Approved Character [The Black Vipers] Anabel Ghent
- Thread starter SmokeEmpress
- Start date
I don't see any issues involving the plot part, and as an Elysian I see no issues either.... Just a few.
She's a little short compared to a typical Caelisolan, but I don't think thats much of an issue.
I notice you also don't have Likes, Dislikes, or Goals...is there any particular reason towards that?
Involving your leadership skill a majority of it is alright, though I want to know that you know that a Patrician, even one of lower rank, has more say than her. And for the most part those who were part of the original Elysian Empire were raised to realize this as a normal thing. This isn't exactly an issue since chances are you won't run into any Patricians while on my plot, I just want to make sure you understand fully how Elysians work. As said, its not a big issue.
So really outside of Likes, Dislikes, or Goals, I don't really see anything wrong with it. So once you address the likes/dislikes/goals issue I'll stamp my approval.
She's a little short compared to a typical Caelisolan, but I don't think thats much of an issue.
I notice you also don't have Likes, Dislikes, or Goals...is there any particular reason towards that?
Involving your leadership skill a majority of it is alright, though I want to know that you know that a Patrician, even one of lower rank, has more say than her. And for the most part those who were part of the original Elysian Empire were raised to realize this as a normal thing. This isn't exactly an issue since chances are you won't run into any Patricians while on my plot, I just want to make sure you understand fully how Elysians work. As said, its not a big issue.
So really outside of Likes, Dislikes, or Goals, I don't really see anything wrong with it. So once you address the likes/dislikes/goals issue I'll stamp my approval.
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
I took those out just for the simple fact that, at her age, likes, dislikes and goals are really a non-issue. I mean, I could put some of what she likes and dislikes, but for goals, she is already where she wants to be. This is something new that is happening to her, so it's not like her goal is to be a pirate...ya know?
I do understand that anyone who is a Patrician would be above her in rank, so when I had that put in there, it was with that understanding. It's not just pay grade rank, but social as well. And yes, at this time for this plot, it's not needed to be in there. Of course, as time goes on, if it becomes an issue it will be added to clarify.
I did make her a little short on purpose. The range for Caelisolans is 5' to 7' with the average female being 5'6". She is more 'me' in that she is closer to my age and has more experiences in life like I do.
I do understand that anyone who is a Patrician would be above her in rank, so when I had that put in there, it was with that understanding. It's not just pay grade rank, but social as well. And yes, at this time for this plot, it's not needed to be in there. Of course, as time goes on, if it becomes an issue it will be added to clarify.
I did make her a little short on purpose. The range for Caelisolans is 5' to 7' with the average female being 5'6". She is more 'me' in that she is closer to my age and has more experiences in life like I do.
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
Awesome! Thanks!!
Aendri
Inactive Member
What's going on with her parents? Growing up in Elysia, the wars would've had a big impact on her life, especially as applies to her parents.
You should change what killed their children. Keep in mind that most of Yamatai's medical tech evolved from the original Elysian tech. Elysia is very nearly as medically healthy as Yamatai is on the whole. A disease that could kill an Elysian abruptly would utterly wreck nearly any faction, because it would have to work INCREDIBLY fast.
You should take the line about being able to learn other languages out of Communications. That's a given.
Who taught her Pankration? It's not something that was taught to many Plebians outside of exceptional athletes unless they joined the military.
Engineering needs to be re-written. Math and Physics have their own skills entirely (Mathematics and Medical and Science respectively), they don't belong in an Engineering skill. Those are skills that assist with Engineering, but they're not the engineering skill. That skill revolves around the design and construction of things.
Mechanical should really be clarified and narrowed down. Being able to work on any engine she finds is a lot more impressive in SARP than it would be irl, because there are a LOT more types of engines. As it's written now, you're claiming she can fix anything from a lawn mower to a battleship's engine, and any mechanic ever will tell you that's silly as hell. What does she specialize in? Small starships? Land vehicles, like cars?
To be perfectly honest? I'd like to have you replace the Leadership skill with something else. You have yet to play a character who would've held a leadership position on the site, which is the usual prerequisite for it, and we don't really like that skill to be in new characters regardless. Show that she's a leader in the RP, and your GM can approve that being added to the profile after the fact, but as it is, there's nothing here that really indicates she should be allowed to have that skill right out the gate.
There's a decent bit that still needs tweaking or editing, for now, so this character is still in progress.
You should change what killed their children. Keep in mind that most of Yamatai's medical tech evolved from the original Elysian tech. Elysia is very nearly as medically healthy as Yamatai is on the whole. A disease that could kill an Elysian abruptly would utterly wreck nearly any faction, because it would have to work INCREDIBLY fast.
You should take the line about being able to learn other languages out of Communications. That's a given.
Who taught her Pankration? It's not something that was taught to many Plebians outside of exceptional athletes unless they joined the military.
Engineering needs to be re-written. Math and Physics have their own skills entirely (Mathematics and Medical and Science respectively), they don't belong in an Engineering skill. Those are skills that assist with Engineering, but they're not the engineering skill. That skill revolves around the design and construction of things.
Mechanical should really be clarified and narrowed down. Being able to work on any engine she finds is a lot more impressive in SARP than it would be irl, because there are a LOT more types of engines. As it's written now, you're claiming she can fix anything from a lawn mower to a battleship's engine, and any mechanic ever will tell you that's silly as hell. What does she specialize in? Small starships? Land vehicles, like cars?
To be perfectly honest? I'd like to have you replace the Leadership skill with something else. You have yet to play a character who would've held a leadership position on the site, which is the usual prerequisite for it, and we don't really like that skill to be in new characters regardless. Show that she's a leader in the RP, and your GM can approve that being added to the profile after the fact, but as it is, there's nothing here that really indicates she should be allowed to have that skill right out the gate.
There's a decent bit that still needs tweaking or editing, for now, so this character is still in progress.
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
Okay, thank you, @Aendri. I will address some of the points here and update the ones I don't as soon as I can.
My first address: since her children were born Plebians and, as such, subject to childhood diseases because, in the written history it was stated that Plebians were imperfect and, therefore, as many as possible were moved from those bodies to the new Caelisolans, then what could have killed them?
I get that this site and this universe is trying hard to not have anything that could medically go wrong. It's so advanced that even cancer is cured. Awesome! Kudos! But let's also think about it this way: Can the science of medicine truly eradicate everything that goes wrong with a body genetically? Even today, we have the flu vaccine. And yet, people who do take it, still get the flu and, in some very rare cases, die. They could be healthy as a horse, and yet it still happens. It's not an epidemic. It's not something that happens to a huge population. But it happens.
Same with childhood diseases. Or even childhood cancers. It happens. Is it life changing for the ones going through it? Of course it is! But the point I'm making is that her children died. So what do you think would or could have happened in that sense?
My second address: Skills for engineering require one to know Math and Physics and even some Science. They can all be tied in together because the Math and Physics needed would be geared towards Engineers. I know this because I was in those classes myself for Software Engineering. Unless I needed more skills to flesh out, then there's no point in me separating them.
Third address: Parents. I get that you all want to have as detailed a thing when it comes to family, including parents, but she is 35 years old. What would be the point of having ANYTHING about them in her bio? You all approve those with nothing about parents other than a simple line, which I had tried with my first character, of "knows nothing about the parents because yadda yadda." Yes, I know it would be something that could impact her in regards to losing her sons and husband, but if I try to go that route you would shoot me down because I'm a new player to this site.
And finally: Leadership. Again, I am getting shot down because I'm new to the site and so haven't proven myself. Well, I'm sorry, but it is kind of hard to do so when you don't get much chance of posting because this is set up so you don't have to post all day every day. I like that about the site. But let's face it. I've played many characters on many other sites and I am, in real life, a Leader. Not just at home, but also at work. I think I have earned the right to have at least ONE character start off as a Leader, so long as it is clear that she's not a Military one. I won't do that yet.
I'll take out the lines about communications that is redundant. As for the martial arts, well, it was listed in the courses that a Plebian would take should they show progress. Maybe I did too much, but figured she'd have at least learned enough of the basics and nothing more to defend herself if needed.
My first address: since her children were born Plebians and, as such, subject to childhood diseases because, in the written history it was stated that Plebians were imperfect and, therefore, as many as possible were moved from those bodies to the new Caelisolans, then what could have killed them?
I get that this site and this universe is trying hard to not have anything that could medically go wrong. It's so advanced that even cancer is cured. Awesome! Kudos! But let's also think about it this way: Can the science of medicine truly eradicate everything that goes wrong with a body genetically? Even today, we have the flu vaccine. And yet, people who do take it, still get the flu and, in some very rare cases, die. They could be healthy as a horse, and yet it still happens. It's not an epidemic. It's not something that happens to a huge population. But it happens.
Same with childhood diseases. Or even childhood cancers. It happens. Is it life changing for the ones going through it? Of course it is! But the point I'm making is that her children died. So what do you think would or could have happened in that sense?
My second address: Skills for engineering require one to know Math and Physics and even some Science. They can all be tied in together because the Math and Physics needed would be geared towards Engineers. I know this because I was in those classes myself for Software Engineering. Unless I needed more skills to flesh out, then there's no point in me separating them.
Third address: Parents. I get that you all want to have as detailed a thing when it comes to family, including parents, but she is 35 years old. What would be the point of having ANYTHING about them in her bio? You all approve those with nothing about parents other than a simple line, which I had tried with my first character, of "knows nothing about the parents because yadda yadda." Yes, I know it would be something that could impact her in regards to losing her sons and husband, but if I try to go that route you would shoot me down because I'm a new player to this site.
And finally: Leadership. Again, I am getting shot down because I'm new to the site and so haven't proven myself. Well, I'm sorry, but it is kind of hard to do so when you don't get much chance of posting because this is set up so you don't have to post all day every day. I like that about the site. But let's face it. I've played many characters on many other sites and I am, in real life, a Leader. Not just at home, but also at work. I think I have earned the right to have at least ONE character start off as a Leader, so long as it is clear that she's not a Military one. I won't do that yet.
I'll take out the lines about communications that is redundant. As for the martial arts, well, it was listed in the courses that a Plebian would take should they show progress. Maybe I did too much, but figured she'd have at least learned enough of the basics and nothing more to defend herself if needed.
Aendri
Inactive Member
Most of the factions actually aren't anything like immune to disease. It's just Yamatai and Elysia, the two factions with the most advanced medical tech, and easy access to body transfer or replacement technology. Let me put it like this. If the kids were going to die in anything less than a remarkably abrupt and speedy manner, standard procedure would simply be to scan them, regrow the bodies rather quickly, and ST their minds back into a new, healthy body based on that technology. It's been standard in the setting for quite some time now, and isn't anything especially out of the ordinary or expensive for these two factions. Shit, you want them dead, just say a shuttle hit them or something. It's not them dying that's a problem here, just the method you picked.
Yes, I am well aware that Math and Science are major portions of Engineering, what with having been an engineering major since sophomore year of high school. What I am pointing out is that those skills are NOT part of the Engineering skill in our system. They are their own, separate skill, which would be listed entirely separately. If you can't find enough to write about a skill to make it at least 2-3 sentences, it probably shouldn't be listed as a skill.
The parents would matter a fair bit for an Elysian character, namely because family is incredibly important to Elysians, and they would've been involved in some of the most brutal, intensive fighting the setting has seen, against the faction that their nation is currently part of. It has a HUGE impact on the psyche of Elysians. If one of them died in the wars, there are pretty good odds she would utterly HATE Yamatai. Or maybe they didn't take part in the wars, for one reason or another, and their reasons for not taking part would ALSO have a major impact on her childhood. If she never knew her parents, that's one thing, but if she did, then they raised her in the middle of the single worst period in the history of the faction, and that is an incredibly important part of her backstory.
Leadership has that rule in place for the exact same reason you're not allowed to just randomly start a character out as an officer. Demonstrate, don't claim the skill, and there's no problem. Heck, if Semjax thinks it's justified, you could add the skill in after a month. But with what we've seen from you so far, there's no obvious reason to bend that rule, and no real benefit to it, either. If you RP her as showing leadership, you're going to get the results whether or not the skill is listed. It's really not something you should waste time fighting over, since it's such an easy thing to justify for you through the RP, what with being a leader in real life.
For the Pankration, yeah, you're absolutely right. It is taught to people, but only within the military, or under an actual master. It's not something that you would really pick up on the street. Much like with the lower class of modern society, most Plebians simply didn't have the time to spare to learn something like that unless they were going to use it professionally, that's the only reason it's kinda touchy. Maybe put something in the history about her husband teaching her pieces for self-defense in their spare time?
Yes, I am well aware that Math and Science are major portions of Engineering, what with having been an engineering major since sophomore year of high school. What I am pointing out is that those skills are NOT part of the Engineering skill in our system. They are their own, separate skill, which would be listed entirely separately. If you can't find enough to write about a skill to make it at least 2-3 sentences, it probably shouldn't be listed as a skill.
The parents would matter a fair bit for an Elysian character, namely because family is incredibly important to Elysians, and they would've been involved in some of the most brutal, intensive fighting the setting has seen, against the faction that their nation is currently part of. It has a HUGE impact on the psyche of Elysians. If one of them died in the wars, there are pretty good odds she would utterly HATE Yamatai. Or maybe they didn't take part in the wars, for one reason or another, and their reasons for not taking part would ALSO have a major impact on her childhood. If she never knew her parents, that's one thing, but if she did, then they raised her in the middle of the single worst period in the history of the faction, and that is an incredibly important part of her backstory.
Leadership has that rule in place for the exact same reason you're not allowed to just randomly start a character out as an officer. Demonstrate, don't claim the skill, and there's no problem. Heck, if Semjax thinks it's justified, you could add the skill in after a month. But with what we've seen from you so far, there's no obvious reason to bend that rule, and no real benefit to it, either. If you RP her as showing leadership, you're going to get the results whether or not the skill is listed. It's really not something you should waste time fighting over, since it's such an easy thing to justify for you through the RP, what with being a leader in real life.
For the Pankration, yeah, you're absolutely right. It is taught to people, but only within the military, or under an actual master. It's not something that you would really pick up on the street. Much like with the lower class of modern society, most Plebians simply didn't have the time to spare to learn something like that unless they were going to use it professionally, that's the only reason it's kinda touchy. Maybe put something in the history about her husband teaching her pieces for self-defense in their spare time?
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
Okay, after a night of sleeping off my frustration and taking a fresh look at this, I have made adjustments and added a lot to the background. I hope that what was altered works. I still feel that the Leadership skill itself can and should be in there. I added to it to make it clear that she's not military and therefore not expecting to lead soldiers or infantry into battle. As a civilian, that is what should be expected. From my understanding, that is what is meant for the Leadership, that you can not create a character that is in a position of major authority. I'm not doing that. However, that doesn't mean she can't have Leadership abilities.
Think of it this way. If I were to create a character sheet of myself and put what all I have done and expanded on how I have earned my own abilities as a leader, would you be able to deny that of me? That's the difference between Skills and Rank. She has no rank, she knows it. But that doesn't make her less of a Leader when it comes to the engine room.
Think of it this way. If I were to create a character sheet of myself and put what all I have done and expanded on how I have earned my own abilities as a leader, would you be able to deny that of me? That's the difference between Skills and Rank. She has no rank, she knows it. But that doesn't make her less of a Leader when it comes to the engine room.
Aendri
Inactive Member
Yes, we would turn down that character. Just like in real life, you need one of two things to take leadership, and that's either experience (which this character doesn't have any IC experience, being new), or references (and you have no other characters who have shown leadership to reference). Until you have one of those things, you don't get Leadership as a skill IC, because that skill implies that you are ready to be a leader, regardless of what your current "rank" is. It has nothing to do with military or civilian. A skill is a skill regardless of how you developed it, or where it's being used, and this skill has restrictions for new characters.
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
References? Would you like me to list some of those for you? As for 'real life', how one gets experience is by doing. And, according to her Pre-RP she has experience and therefore has leadership abilities. Just because it hasn't been RP'd out doesn't make it any less there. Same for as if I were to put on my resume that I have experience in leading others and how. A company would see that and jump on it. And if I fail, it's because I didn't perform as I should have based on what was written.
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I would argue against this, if you have enough charisma you can be a leader, Ive seen brand new people to a workplace or military just walk in and take control of a situation by charisma alone. Also even though She is new that shouldn't bar her from any experience I mean hey by all intensive purposes other people are just as new and are running plots already.
I'm just tossing my two bits in here.
Having looked at the character, I agree with Aendri. Leadership on this site isn't something that we'll give out like candy, but rather, has to be earned through character progression; we do this because a lot of what a character learns is done through roleplaying, and that character has to demonstrate the ability to lead. Its much like in the real world, a private wouldn't be given the option to lead a squad of soldiers, but as he moves up through the ranks he'll begin to demonstrate those skills and can get noticed by command and promoted to a rank suitable to his leadership qualities.
Its much the same way on this site, it isn't just due to the rules of the site but its also part of the factions as well. A faction's military won't just allow a newly recruited (or trained) soldier to suddenly become an officer (or leader) on a ship, just like that; they gotta show that they've earned.
One of these example's is my Yammy character: Takeyu. If you read his bio you'll notice that he had a lot of leadership/commanding experience before he joined the military, but per the rules of the site, he was not allowed to have the leadership skill right away (as I had no character that held a leadership position beforehand) so I removed from his list of skills until sometime down the line of roleplay when I started to have him demonstrate his leadership potential and then readded the skill.
Thus I ask that you please change it to something else, then, later on down the line when the character gets higher in rank, you may add the skill back.
Its much the same way on this site, it isn't just due to the rules of the site but its also part of the factions as well. A faction's military won't just allow a newly recruited (or trained) soldier to suddenly become an officer (or leader) on a ship, just like that; they gotta show that they've earned.
One of these example's is my Yammy character: Takeyu. If you read his bio you'll notice that he had a lot of leadership/commanding experience before he joined the military, but per the rules of the site, he was not allowed to have the leadership skill right away (as I had no character that held a leadership position beforehand) so I removed from his list of skills until sometime down the line of roleplay when I started to have him demonstrate his leadership potential and then readded the skill.
Thus I ask that you please change it to something else, then, later on down the line when the character gets higher in rank, you may add the skill back.
Yoshi
Inactive Member
The examples given all have to to with Military. The great issue with this is a simple thing. The character is not military. The fact that most of the skill were written with their examples were all for military plots, and military characters. This Character is a civilian nothing more. So if that Skill does not cover what a Civilian would have instead then a new skill needs to be developed for it. If it all about the fact that the character is brand new, then a few of my characters should have not been allowed to be approved. Yoshi Katai on the Sakishima is the prime example of this.
Above all of this what does the GM say on it. The GM can say yea or nae for what the character is/has.
Above all of this what does the GM say on it. The GM can say yea or nae for what the character is/has.
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
And to add to this, the other issue at hand is that I am a relatively new player. I get that I can't make an officer at this time. I don't have enough knowledge of Star Army and how it works to create a character that is meant to lead hundreds or thousands of people. The most that my character, as a Civilian would be leading is 5. And that's if she were on a big enough cruiser that would require that many engineers to keep the ship running. On smaller vessels, she'd be lucky to just have one other to help offset when she would take time off! Though, even in the private sector, you would have 'rankings' for captain, xo, etc, there's nothing 'official' about them and none are truly military in how things are run.
What is being hung up on, as Yoshi said, is the whole definition of Leadership and what exactly it is my character is leading. For the purpose of this particular thread, nothing but other civilians. And the only reason why that characteristic is necessary is to show that, though she may not be first to get into a fight, she will hold her own in her domain. I'm not asking for her to be a diplomat, for even that shouldn't be allowed me as far as Leadership in the civilian sector goes.
So, please, remember that I am old enough to know a hell of a lot better than most that get on here and wise enough NOT to abuse what Leadership truly means and how it applies in this particular situation. Otherwise, I would have made her a lot younger like my other three characters and this would never have been an issue to begin with.
What is being hung up on, as Yoshi said, is the whole definition of Leadership and what exactly it is my character is leading. For the purpose of this particular thread, nothing but other civilians. And the only reason why that characteristic is necessary is to show that, though she may not be first to get into a fight, she will hold her own in her domain. I'm not asking for her to be a diplomat, for even that shouldn't be allowed me as far as Leadership in the civilian sector goes.
So, please, remember that I am old enough to know a hell of a lot better than most that get on here and wise enough NOT to abuse what Leadership truly means and how it applies in this particular situation. Otherwise, I would have made her a lot younger like my other three characters and this would never have been an issue to begin with.
Aendri
Inactive Member
Skills have absolutely nothing to do with military or not. A skill is a skill, as I said, regardless of where or how you learned it, and the simple fact is that Leadership is not a skill permissible in new characters. I've talked this over with Semjax, and he said he'll stand by whatever my decision is.
So the simple fact of the matter is that it needs to be removed. If it is not, then this character is rejected, and we'll move on to other things.
So the simple fact of the matter is that it needs to be removed. If it is not, then this character is rejected, and we'll move on to other things.
As much as I would approve this character simply on my own personal belief that a character should be as capable as the player themselves are, Aendri and Kyle have both backed up the claim that it is a Site Rule that you can not have Leadership without earning it on another character first. By asking me to approve this character over Aendri, and Kyle himself, it is asking me to break a rule that the site has.
As such I can not approve it unless Leadership is removed. I apologize.
As such I can not approve it unless Leadership is removed. I apologize.
Also keep in mind, the leadership skill is not needed to lead over people, especially NPCs. If you give good commands, people will naturally follow. The leadership skill is about 80% RP, and fairly easy to get a little after creation if your character is actually qualified to lead. And even if they're not they can just take classes for it like in real life. I'm under the impression though that the reason the leadership skill is to given to players who have yet to show leadership in an RP though is because the skill is so RP heavy, and having that skill would mean when things happen off screen, the GM has to assume you would display leadership in those situations, even if they haven't seen you RP. So most GMs would probably want some assurance that the player is actually capable of the claim.
Besides, if you don't start with leadership and earn it a little later you'll have 8 skills instead of seven.
Besides, if you don't start with leadership and earn it a little later you'll have 8 skills instead of seven.
SmokeEmpress
Inactive Member
Okay. It is very obvious that all of you are too military minded to even consider the possibility of Leadership being defined in other ways. I will delete this skill, but it would bring her down to six. But that's beside the point. I want you all to understand something here. I am doing this under duress. I don't agree with it. And, in fact, it makes me wonder if I should continue to RP here. It's one thing to prevent new players from starting off high in the ranks, whether military or civilian. It's another to prevent new players from having a certain skill for a civilian that would have little to no impact on a military or military-like setting. Leadership is more than just ordering people to do certain things. It's also understanding when you are not in charge because what is happening around you is out of your own bailiwick.
@SmokeEmpress while a lot of what you said is true, that applies to leadership in the real world. It's like I said in my post above. It's 80% RP, meaning whether you have the skill or not, you can act according to leadership principle. There are no restrictions on your characters personality or behavior. And the skill restriction has nothing to do with being military or not military. Lots of non military characters have leadership. And even characters who are in the military but not in a position of command have leadership. The thing is when you have a skill the GM is supposed to assume your character knows what they're doing in situations involving the skill. But if you have leadership, but no one has every seen you lead, it makes it hard for the GM to believe that if you RPed the situation out, that you'd have actually made the right choices as a leader.
