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The Dangers of Overreliance on Nanotechnology and Other Space Magic in Writing.

Alex Hart

Well-Known Member
Wow! That's a lot of capitalized words in the title! Well, that's because I think this topic is important. I've been noticing an increasing trend of reliance on Nanotechnology or other Magic Technology in SARP tech and writing as of late, and of explaining away problems with products or issues of feasibility with "space tech" or "It just is".

It's my firm belief that we should all hold ourselves to a relatively high standard of writing and explanation of our technology, and I personally, while not adverse to using some Nanotechnology in my writing, think that it's unhealthy for us to rely too much on any one Magical Space Technology, especially when using it as an excuse to not explain things.

I know some people who initially used stuff like Space Magic Technology are moving away from it, which is good, but I also see a trend towards it, and towards not explaining the mechanisms behind how parts of our world here in the SARP universe work, which makes me a little worried as to how our standards might be changing.

I'd be very interested to see how other people on SARP view this trend. Make your voice heard too!
 
To be honest, there's only a problem with this as long as you think it's a problem.

None of us are smart enough to actually explain energy to matter converters, to explain sea sediment-derived metallurgy, etc. Etc.

Let's hypothisize here. Touch screen doesn't exist. We're all writing on SARP from computers or blackberry cellphones. Touchscreen is unheard off.

Do you legitimately think anyone here would be able to actually explain how it works properly? Because I honestly don't think so.
 
On the other side of the spectrum, if we use this as an excuse to essentially materialize anything out of nowhere/do lots of impossible things using energy-matter conversion we are on a very slippery slope. You do not want to see the end of this slope, because I have already theorized the end of the slope. It is not pretty.
 
its one thing to stick to your lane. I myself can talk circles around people on biology and injuries, Weapons and what damage they would really do, What the human body or even a close augmented cousin of it is capable of, And such stuff.

Its another to step into a field where the technology exists to explain it but i have no idea how it works so i need to technobabble or use fancy words or something that sounds feasible but in reality is impossible or makes no sense. I can tell you a hundred reasons why nanomachines and such magical things wont/wouldnt work.

But in setting they *do* work because of the breakthroughs of a galaxy so much further advanced in its technological advancement then we are where they can make reproducing cute gynoid cats strong enough to punch through walls and float and shit, And super soldiers, And ships that can hit a moving target lightyears away... So its up to us to interpret that as best we can through our own words or medium, Or at least word it in a way that implies because this faction is so strong and advanced and has the tech to do so that its just well within its limitations to have this magical thing, Without having to write a master thesis on how its even possible...

*edit*

I do agree however things SHOULD be written out if there is a way to do so. Instead of being lazy about it. Im just saying some people have a better ability to do so than others~
 
The video was just my tl;dr. It's also a longtime SARP favorite. So I wasn't simply meme-ing.

It's good to explain how things work in articles. More fluff is always great. Nobody should be forced to explain how minutiae functions if the scientific basis of those functions cannot be convincingly explained in prose, though. It's science fiction, not fiction about real science.

The submission process exists so that when an explanation is unreasonable or insufficient, any member of the community can chime in to let the submitter and reviewer know. I don't think there's any need to curb "overreliance" on something that is already systemically discouraged by existing processes.

Plus, the "rule of cool" is always super important. If we had to explain everything with convincing science rather than physics-breaking space magic, any mech bigger than a power armor wouldn't exist because they're absolutely impossible machines.
 
I'ma be honest that I haven't been wandering the roleplay threads outside of the ones I'm in recently so I haven't seen it myself. But I will say it is a dangerous slope to head down. You guys are mostly concerned with the writing it seems, but that kind of writing can have an effect on the NTSE. Right now the NTSE is good about keeping things that can't be at least explained on a concept oriented basis out of the setting, but if people get more comfortable with "Well nanomachines" then that kind of writing will creep into the setting's technology as well.

So while it is hard to explain the sciences behind a lot of things, I would implore everyone to at least strive to be able to put concepts to text. Like instead of "He uses nanomachines to build something out of thin air" try to at least get "He uses nanomachines to break down the air molecules and reassemble them into solids." There's still a lot that is missing form that, but at least it shows some thought went into the action, and it will keep the site form trending towards "A wizard did it" justifications.
 
What about when people have things years in advance of the rest of the setting's tech level, and explain it with "Because."
 
With that remark, this thread has gone from a thread offering open discussion to a thread cracking down on the Honeycomb. I expected this, but I'm still somewhat disappointed.

Various explanations have been offered. You were however not content. So therefore, apparently, no explanation at all was given in your eyes.
 
In my personal opinion, @Alex Hart, that’s called “powergaming” - and is something that (again, in my personal opinion) should be avoided at all costs, as in the past it’s led to the OOC arms races, drama, and “tech wars” responsible for producing things like the C-series and the Colonial Pact.
 
hi hi

As someone who comes from a hard science background, and is really more of a tourist to the forums than a regular, I might not have any standing here. But at the risk of writing about something entirely out of my element, I have a few cents I might share.

Space magic does seem to be baked into the Star Army setting, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, especially if there is narrative reason for it. There are lots of things that make telling a certain story possible that wouldn't work without breaking physics. Off the top of my head.
  • Faster than Light travel breaks causality in reality, but having a galaxy spanning story that takes place in a reasonable time frame with regards to people requires it.
  • Reactionless drives break thermodynamics and conservation of momentum with regards to energy expenditures being different depending on one's frame of reference, but make piloting a spaceship something that doesn't require lots of math to determine a deltaV budget.
  • Access to infinite free energy is also access to infinite free mass, thanks to mass-energy equivalence, but finding a way to avoid galaxy consuming singularities can certainly be worth not having to worry about the narrative coming to a halt because the heroes forgot to pack enough energy cells.
It has been said that a fundamental difference between hard sci fi and soft sci fi is that the former tries to imagine a world to fit the science, while the latter tries to fit the science to an imagined world. In that sense, the explanations are there to support the look and feel of the universe, then the question becomes what is this thing trying to accomplish in the setting?

From a narrative perspective, a large part of what makes a story interesting is a need. The characters need something to happen, or need something not to happen. If it is a deeply personal need, so much the better. And as the dramatic tension ratchets up, the need becomes more pressing and more difficult. It sounds like part of the concern here might be that using super science to casually handwave problems away could create the unintended consequence of trivializing the drama.

It seems like the moderators already have a handle on the issue of people wanting something that is arbitrarily better for their character specifically than anyone else's, or are at least aware of the issue.

From a suspension of disbelief perspective, a large part of what makes a story believable isn't accuracy but sensibility. Someone might think flying in an airplane is terribly scary even if air travel is incredibly safe, for instance. Unfortunately, one cannot control the preconceptions people come into the setting with. The other biggest thing that will break suspension of disbelief is a lack of internal consistency. Something might break physics, but does it break what is already established in setting? Does it require ruling by fiat to avoid some unintended consequence?

Based on what I've read in the wiki so far, it seems like the setting has a relatively solid foundation based on what technology can and cannot accomplish.

From a perspective of providing guidance to new players, most people aren't going to have a firm understanding of real-world high-concept physics, or the fictional physics that govern the game universe. (I know I had the hardest time conceiving of a character with all of those super science powers until I figured that she was basically a magical girl in a civilization of peers.) Whether it makes sense in reality, or just makes sense in-universe, what is important to them is that it makes sense somehow.

I've found, as I try to get a feel for the universe, that the pages with in-character examples of the technology in use (that don't require reading through an entire in-character thread) have been some of the most helpful; especially with regards to how important or trivial the technology is to the people using it, and how I might describe its use in prose.

Anyways, if you made it this far, thanks for humoring me.
 
This was never really just about the honeycomb, though it was what I consider an egregious example of the "because" mentality in which no attempt is made to explain why or how something happened.

THAT'S what I'm afraid of, not any single specific submission, and I'm worried that we're leaning towards the trend of not wanting to explain things that are rather significant, and should at the very least have even a sentence or two dedicated to explaining them. That's what I made this thread to discuss.

Ideally, I'd like to keep away from very specific examples if possible, to avoid the idea that this thread is just about any single submission. It might have been prompted by one, but it's intended to discuss a larger issue that I think is emerging, not a single example.
 
Also, I wasn't talking specifically about the Honeycomb, like you claimed, I was speaking generally. It's happened a few times in the past half year, but as I said in my last post, it was just an example, and one that YOU, not anyone else, brought up. As I said, this is not about the Honeycomb, it is about the larger issue, so I'm not sure why you think this is a "Cracking down on the honeycomb" thread.
 
A good job on restating your first point, which I really have to wonder what other examples there are. Yet conveniently ignoring the second part.

Anyhow, treat it how you like. It's your "open discussion" thread. What club states in the submission is extremely valid. And I'll take his wisdom and just leave it at this myself as well.
 
@Alex Hart You're starting to confuse 2 separate issues. "Space magic" and "ahead of the curve are two separate things". Space magic is a purely narrative issue. It doesn't talk about things that are 'unfair' but rather 'unjustified'. People having tech that's ahead of the curve for no reason is a matter of whether or not that's 'fair' now granted not all tech that's ahead of the curve is 'unfair'. Like if I gave someone a years ahead of it's time watch, while I shouldn't just do that, it's not really going to damage anything by being there.

Edit: And whethere something is 'fair' or not is left to the NTSE and SM. But NTSE for submissions by default requires a minimal level of reasoning into how something operates if it doesn't work on 'conventional' technology for the setting.
 
This has always been said on SARP:
"Star Army is a 'soft' sci-fi setting..."
Found here:
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=about#space_opera_theme

Definitions and examples of soft sci-fi on this wikipedia page are super helpful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_science_fiction

The submissions that had these claims against them are getting worked on, if I saw correctly on discord: @SirSkully @Alex Hart

Does this need to continue as a conversation about a possible current problem or is it now a conversation about something being rectified?

Edit: I just saw that Skuwully might want to talk about this tomorrow, so I am 100% ok with waiting for responses! ^-^
 
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