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This HAS to be against the rules!

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Sigma

Sigma

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https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/index.php?threads/regarding-the-proposed-dion-yse-treaty.14962/

How can you use my treaty in Role Play when it's not even complete? I haven't finished writing it, it hasn't even received feedback from Kampfer. How do your wonderful Nekos have access to something that hasn't even been created in the universe. Read the damn tag - It "is not yet approved for usage in the RP"

Why are you gaming the system? @Wes

How is this legal? @Nashoba @Doshii Jun

We haven't even sent it to you. How can it be "proposed" when Nepleslia proposed nothing? This stinks of cheating. I don't see how it can be justified when the damn tag says it's not ready for RP use!
 
To clarify, Sigma is not calling out Nashoba or Doshii Jun in being implicit in this. He is merely drawing their attention to a blatant disregard for forum rules.

How Wes is able to pre-empt an agreement that is in the stages of only being thought out with an IC post is beyond me.
 
I'm also rather amused that the military is dictating terms to the civilian government. Why bother having a civilian government if the military is going to strong-arm its way into politics with phrases like "Yamatai cannot accept this term at all. We will continue to strike any nation that threatens us on our own terms." and "Yamatai's military will not agree to terms that inhibit its normal operation."

Some democracy if the military has final say in everything.
 
Spies!

Well, I guess since Nepleslia hasn't even proposed the treaty yet all Yuumi can really do is tell her sister that she's received no such offer on her desk or in the senate and that she'll have to cool her heels until it's actually put up for discussion.

As for military power in the empire, the military seems to be one of the three branches of political power in the empire, while also having a large stake in the Senate itself. Fortunately the army officers don't seem to vote as a bloc at all. Yuumi just handles the everyday, boring, running of the empire and certain sensitive matters. If there was any espionage going on, it's likely Yui would see the intelligence first.
 
Okay, let's look at this logically.

  • First, the treaty will not be approved until both affected parties agree. SO the document will remain a work in progress until that happens.
  • Second, IRL when two parties are working on an agreement, treaty etc. The early drafts of the proposal is shared with both. Do you honestly think when the SALT talks went down that both sides did not already know what the basic document said. Of course they did, and it makes sense, that way each party can evaluate the proposal, determine what items are negotiable, what are sticking points, what they are willing to give up, and what they might want as concessions.
  • Third, the IRC is less than two weeks away. It is the ideal time for the major aspects of this document to be worked out. I can't speak for the other factions, but I really do not want the IRC to become dominated by this treaty. There are lots of other items on the docket. It would be a good thing if most of the hashing out was done and at the IRC, the signing of the document takes place.
  • Fourth, the thread in question is Wes, ICly voicing his concerns about the proposal to the Premier. In other words, he is OOCly discussing with Jake points of contention with the proposal. I personally think this is much better than Wes just unilaterally handling the issues himself.
  • Fifth, it is apparent that the document is a work in progress. Many of the bullet points just trail off. That Yui aka Wes points these out to Yuumi aka Jake is a good thing so that they can be addressed before the conference.
  • Sixth, a treaty is supposed to be worked on together, if only one party writes the treaty, its not a treaty, its a set of demands.
  • Seventh, this would be an excellent time for Jake/Yuumi, and Sigma / to discuss this both ICly in roleplay and OOCly to get the document worded properly.
  • Ninth, most of the treaties that were written in the past were vague, ambiguous and therefore ineffective.
  • Tenth, and last let's let Jake and Sigma work on this document and hammer out the major issues, a few sticking issues can be left to be resolved via roleplay at the summit. But our energy is better served to make this a good treaty.
 
The fact is, due to the tag and due to the fact that the article writer has not mentioned it in any way or form in an IC or OOC thread shows that it is not open for OOC commentary (yet), much less an IC one. The only way Yui could have known about the treaty would be if she can quite literally access our SARP WIKI in real life. And since she cant, and since her player can (and clearly has), that is my basis for panning Wes for metagamery.

If I were to use an NTSE Tech analogue, it is like an Yamataian character commenting on how crap Nepleslia's new gun is, when said gun not even distributed, manufactured, designed or exist in any shape or form in universe yet, nor even OOCly submitted to the NTSE for discussion or mod approval, or even completely drafted for first submission by the tech writer.
 
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I think the point is, that until Sigma and Kampfer would OKay the document and makeit truly IC thing, Wes had no right to start to work with it in an RP at all.
 
Just because the treaty's wiki article doesn't have approval doesn't mean that some form of its draft is not already in the SARPiverse. I figured it would be better to do this via RP instead of behind closed door conversations. If you want, I can make the post OOC and we can do this OOCly.
 
I think the point is that there WAS no input, Wes. You're jumping on a page on the wiki that might NEVER be submitted, before the users have approached you about it, and without any in character justification. If, and when, Sigma or Kampfer feel it is ready to be brought up IC, they're big boys, and are more than capable of bringing it up on their own. This isn't a decision anyone but them can make.
 
RP typically comes first, submission usually happens later once the RP establishes what the final version will be.
 
Now, assuming it exist ICly (it doesnt) how did Yamatai even get it?

Congrats, you have somehow wiretapped the other faction's diplomat's private correspondences and computers in an international conference.

Yamatai is even worse than the IRL country that did this recently.
 
All right. I've got to get this off my chest because this is one of the biggest pet peeves of my ever!

Nothing about this treaty has been brought up In-Character yet. No mention of it between nations, no suggestion of it in roleplay, and not even the common decency to ask about it via Out-of-Character PM before responded In-Character with a full blown post. How can you make comments In-Character regarding a Proposed document that hasn't even been Proposed to Yamatai In-Character!? What type of Occultish Seers are SAINT to pull that stuff out of the Aether as if foretelling the future!?

From my point of view In-Character, Nepleslia is working on a Initial Rough Draft of a Treaty before bringing it to the Yamatai Star Empire's attention In-Character. This means Yamatai shouldn't know anything about the document unless:
  • There was some insecure data terminal with the rough draft. In which case SAINT has openly tipped its hand that they have sources in Nepleslia's Government, which is the biggest rookie mistake an Intelligence Community can pull and the Operative/Individual responsible for this would automatically be fired or punished.
  • META-GAMING SHENANIGANS! The above is literally the only way Yamatai would currently know of this!
I can understand Wes wants some input into this document considering it is about his faction, his pride and joy. But COME ON! If you have input right now, make it Out-of-Character! Don't drag it into In-Character context unless you're willing to roleplay HOW you got the information.
 
Alright, I've deleted the thread and taken the discussion to OOC conversations.
 
Closing this thread because it ended a month ago.
 
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