Wes's Philosophy Thread

All nature is but art unknown to thee,
All chance, direction which thou canst not see;
All discord, harmony not understood;
All partial evil, universal good;
And, spite of pride, in erring reason's spite,
One truth is clear: Whatever is, is right.

Alexander Pope (1688-1744)
An Essay on Man

Today, it occured to me: God cannot be good. Nor evil. Nor limited in any way. Nor can God be personified nor described by any characteristic term, nor have any political viewpoint or individual ideas, nor have any equals (for any two things exactly identical in form and in spacetime position are equal to one of the thing).

Limits are what defines us. Our roleplay is good because we limit it with quality standards. When something is good, there is a limit placed on it that means it cannot be bad. Conversely, the bad cannot be good and is limited.

God does not exist as some sort of spiritual entity. If there is a God, is is the God found in the mind and experience and mathematics and in all things, for what God is, simply put, is the infinite, the limitless.

That, possibly, is the reason for our existence: Because God is limitless, God is already everywhere and doing everything, and yet cannot do anything but BE because God cannot change God's state; We lack the infinite but God lacks the limits and thus cannot do anything or be anything but all things, places, and times.

 

[Tim]

Serial killers are the aberration, not the norm. Judging society by the aberrations is like judging the taste of a pizza by the burnt chunks that fell into the stove.

Worse we loose our memories, we forget everything that happens to us, and through that we loose everything! Even our most treasured moments, most beautiful memories crumble and disappear.

Maybe for people with Alzheimer's.

We don't lose all of our memories, mostly we just lose/repress the bad ones. I know, for instance, that I will never forget the paper airplane wars I had when I was younger, or the places I've been. We don't lose who we are, we grow as people.

As for corruption. As we grow, we learn, as we learn, we learn of things that disturb us, but then we grow to accept them.

If you feel that you are corrupted by evil, you are the one at fault because you can choose to accept the evil or you can choose to reject it. Just because I know about animal porn doesn't mean I'm going to have sex with a rabbit; in fact, it means that I will actively discourage such behavior among others. Evil permeating the world doesn't necessarily lead to corruption permeating your being.

We loose our innocence, we loose that which all children have, which makes them so wonderful. We become soiled by this earth, and all the evil that is present in it. Because there is so much evil, and it rubs off on us. Especially now, with the internet, and you can access so much material.

I may be desensitized to curse words, violent outbursts, death, and other "evil" things but I certainly know the difference between good and evil and feel myself better prepared to deal with it than I would be if I was naive.

Naive means:

Via Wikipedia:

[T]he state of lacking experience or understanding and/or having a lack of sophistication

As a child you lack understanding and sophistication and that isn't necessarily a good thing. You lack a proper defense and a strong belief structure which will allow you to deal with the evil in the world. As an adult you should have that structure and the understanding of good and evil so you can be good, if you so choose.

 

[Zakalwe]

I don't like Pizza ...

More importantly, this philosophy is based primarily on me, due to my memory. I have a very bad memory. I do not remember things, and live in occasional fear that I will forget some of the most important things of my life, such as the litte facts about my now dead grandparents.

Uhm, I find that simply the knowledge of evil can serve as a corruption. I am not going to commit an act of bestiality, necrophilia, or mass murder. In fact I'm not certain I could kill anything. But knowing that people do ... that people do commit acts of bestiality, do rape corpses, and do murder people, and in some cases then turn there bodies into a smoothy (I'm not kidding, it's a really bad case, haunted me for days), just the knowledge can be enough.

Because each of us has infinate potential, given the right oppurtunity, situation and stimulation, we can do anything. Knowing that such an act is possible is to know that you could do it. To know that in some eventuality it could be you. That is corruption.

I loose my faith in the good of people, yes I loose my 'naive' nature as you put it, but naive is simply a title given to someone who has experianced the world, been corrupted to some extent, to someone who has been less so, who still has faith in the human natre.

Do I? Do I believe that there is good? Of course. There is a good streak in everyone. And I mean everyone, even Hitler, Stalin and Jack the Ripper had a good streak somewhere, some extent of kindness. But I also know the evil that is in everyones heart, the ability to do such terrible things.

The jeering of bully's, enjoying making someone else feel smaller to inflate their own diminished ego's, the intolerance of people who will lash out at what they do not know, the greed of people who are willing to do great evil to get what they want. THIS, this is what the heart of man can do.

That is what exposure to the world does.

 

[Tim]

Uhm, I find that simply the knowledge of evil can serve as a corruption. I am not going to commit an act of bestiality, necrophilia, or mass murder. In fact I'm not certain I could kill anything. But knowing that people do ... that people do commit acts of bestiality, do rape corpses, and do murder people, and in some cases then turn there bodies into a smoothy (I'm not kidding, it's a really bad case, haunted me for days), just the knowledge can be enough.

Enough to what? Drive you to do anything like that? I doubt it.

Because each of us has infinite potential, given the right oppurtunity, situation and stimulation, we can do anything.

Not necessarily true. I can't run a sub 4 minute mile. I would kill myself rather than murder my family.

naive is simply a title given to someone who has experianced the world

No, it isn't.

But I also know the evil that is in everyones heart, the ability to do such terrible things.

Experience gained through life gives us the moral fiber to not do those terrible things.

The jeering of bully's, enjoying making someone else feel smaller to inflate their own diminished ego's, the intolerance of people who will lash out at what they do not know, the greed of people who are willing to do great evil to get what they want. THIS, this is what the heart of man can do.

Gandhi and Mother Theresa were exposed to the world and did great things. David Robinson was exposed to sex, drugs, and millions upon millions of dollars but gave it up to spread the word of Christ and teach young people. That's what having moral fiber does.

Integrity is something each person develops. The people you are referencing have no integrity or morality (or have a warped one). I would say that they are more "naive" than a person that has experienced life and chooses to live the right path.

 

[Jon]

For example a while back I managed to get to a Wikipedia page about Jack the Ripper while randomly surfing, and eventually read about some of the most disturbing Serial Killers in the world. With reading that, I knew that such things where possible, and a little part of that innocence, that faith in the goodness of man died.

So yes, as we live we are exposed to the world and we loose our innocence, we become jaded to the depravity of the Earth. And as we age we loose who we truly are.

Hi Zakalwe,

Your point on changing with age is an interesting topic that will be worth addressing later! At the moment, let me focus on what you said relevant to the concept of innocence. I assume you are saying that corruption is the loss of innocence.

What if someone was raised with no basic faith in the goodness of humanity, and learned to take people as they are, without imposing any notion of good/bad, only like/dislike. Are they fully corrupt? If so, can they 'go any lower', as it were, or is the only direction uphill?

Jon.