READ ME Wiki Update Request Thread

[Wes]

This thread is for requesting updates to the wiki. The thread was requested in the July 2020 community meeting. If you find a page on the wiki that seems like it needs to be updated because it's out of date or needs more information, you can ask for it to be updated here and a Content & Setting staffer (wiki admin) will be assigned to update the article. When the article is updated, the staffer will post an update in this thread.

 

[Alex Hart]

It's been bugging me for a few months, and I get that the fleets tend to be each run by a different person, but could we get updated fleet numbers for the SAOY fleets, especially after a cataclysmic battle like Nataria?

 

[Wes]

I updated the Second Fleet page since it was the major participant in the battle, besides the depot ships (Zero Fleet) which was already updated. Is that what you needed?

 

[Alex Hart]

I think that other people had brought forces from other fleets, of which had those all been more or less completely lost, though I understand that those might not have been well kept track of, and (for the sake of thoroughness and covering other occurrences during the war) that we had lost the 6th (which is correctly listed as destroyed on its page) and 10th fleet (which is correctly listed as destroyed on its page but erroneously listed as having ships on the main SAoY page).

It's just the consistency stuff that bugs me where things might be listed correctly in one place and incorrectly in another. Some of it is easy enough that it could be fixed by me or someone else, but I felt it more proper to bring it up here rather than risk having to explain or apologize later.

 

[Wes]

Just bumping to remind folks this thread still exists and if you see any outdated wiki pages that staff needs to update, you can request that here.

 

[Deleted member 6093]

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=technology:plasma

You should not be able to make an entire technology be only discoverable by one faction.
That is now how development works. Technology is developed independently, and this sheet basically makes it so nobody can have fusion reactors.

Which is quite frankly bullshit.

Condensed and magnetically confined plasma (two of the restricted technologies) are ABSOLUJTE NECESSITIES for reactors of the fusion kind.
I propose plasma devices be wholly unrestricted because ideas and technology aren't specific to any individual faction, morso the development of such shouldn't be arbitrarily and have-wavily restricted to one faction simply because they've said so.

That's like saying "the universe is this way because I say so." (in character) (also known as meta/powergaming)

 

[Wes]

I think that was originally a Lorath article that was migrated into the technology namespace when technologies were centralized there. If you want to make updates to that article, please create a new version of it in WIP and submit that as a potential replacement.

 

[FrostJaeger]

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=technology:plasma

You should not be able to make an entire technology be only discoverable by one faction.
That is now how development works. Technology is developed independently, and this sheet basically makes it so nobody can have fusion reactors.

Which is quite frankly bullshit.

Condensed and magnetically confined plasma (two of the restricted technologies) are ABSOLUJTE NECESSITIES for reactors of the fusion kind.
I propose plasma devices be wholly unrestricted because ideas and technology aren't specific to any individual faction, morso the development of such shouldn't be arbitrarily and have-wavily restricted to one faction simply because they've said so.

That's like saying "the universe is this way because I say so." (in character) (also known as meta/powergaming)

Having read the article myself, the only sections “restricted” to the Lorath are the sections below the Advanced Plasma Technologies section, whose last sentence reads as follows…

This isn't to say they were exclusive however; anyone can develop it with the right technology.

…which suggests to me that the “entire technology” isn’t “only discoverable by one faction,” as I agree - that’d be completely unfair and metagamey (cases like aether weaponry and teleportation technology excluded, of course).

Case in point: Nepleslia, Elysia, and (to a lesser extent, if memory serves) Yamatai and the Neshaten all utilize plasma weaponry, and I know for a fact that Nepleslia and Origin use fusion reactors in their designs.

Edit: Yamatai also uses fusion reactors - as a backpack accessory for the discontinued Mindy 2D and possibly as a tertiary power source aboard its ships, though I’m not sure about that last one - and I want to say Galactic Horizons does as well.

Edit #2: Apologies for derailing the thread, Wes. >.<

 

[Wes]

Perhaps the wording could be clarified to make it more clear what is available to all and which parts are Lorath-specific, such as by placing Lorath stuff in a distinct section of the article.

 

[Deleted member 6093]

Perhaps the wording could be clarified to make it more clear what is available to all and which parts are Lorath-specific, such as by placing Lorath stuff in a distinct section of the article.

Didnt we fix that, though? Remember when we were in vc?

 

[Wes]

Yes, I did give you permission to edit the wording to make standard plasma types clearly available to everyone.

 

[Alex Hart]

It appears the portion edited was in the Advanced Plasma Technologies section, basically saying that "anyone can develop these now". Not to say that I think that's not the right move, seeing as how the Lorath are defunct and people have had more than a decade to study their tech and there's no reason other civilizations couldn't have developed the same tech. The intro section of the article also mentions the Lorath in the present tense, which *largely* isn't quite the case anymore.

 

[Yuuki]

Paging Doctor @SageShooter

 

[Deleted member 6093]

In conversations with @Wes and other members of the site it has come to my attention that the PSC and Star Army Communicator pages are not entirely accurate. They say that the devices render the user immune to psionic attacks, and "nullify all such activity." I've been told by Wes that the PSC and Communicator do not do this, with him citing instances where they were bypassed.

Personally I think the wiki should be updated to reflect that it is only resistance, not immunity, as immunity wholly blocks a significant portion of RP opportunities.

Ultimately, it should be based on what the players involved want to happen, not what the wiki says always happens.

This innacuracy has caused significant confusion in members, with some disagreeing with others during my conversations.

 

[FrostJaeger]

In conversations with @Wes and other members of the site it has come to my attention that the PSC and Star Army Communicator pages are not entirely accurate. They say that the devices render the user immune to psionic attacks, and "nullify all such activity." I've been told by Wes that the PSC and Communicator do not do this, with him citing instances where they were bypassed.

Personally I think the wiki should be updated to reflect that it is only resistance, not immunity, as immunity wholly blocks a significant portion of RP opportunities.

Ultimately, it should be based on what the players involved want to happen, not what the wiki says always happens.

This innacuracy has caused significant confusion in members, with some disagreeing with others during my conversations.

I strongly oppose this change, since to the best of my knowledge the instances of the PSC and communicator being bypassed were due to GMs using the aforementioned bypass as a plot device, not because an entire player faction was capable of doing so; furthermore, to remove the invulnerability of PSCs and communicators to psionics would be undoing seventeen years of Star Army canon and deprive players (and factions, for that matter) of the sole in-character means of defense they have against the otherwise completely uncounterable psionics used exclusively by the Random Alien.

Lastly, I feel that this change should be debated in its own forum thread due to its magnitude and to avoid derailing/cluttering this thread.

Edit: Essentially, I see no reason to strip away the invulnerability of PSCs and communicators - not when a GMs can already ignore that invulnerability when they (or the players involved in their plot) “want it [to] happen.”

 

[Deleted member 6093]

I strongly oppose this change, since to the best of my knowledge, the instances of the PSC and communicator being bypassed were due to GMs using the aforementioned bypass as a plot device, not because an entire player faction was capable of doing so; furthermore, to remove the invulnerability of PSCs and communicators to psionics would be undoing a decade of Star Army canon and deprive players (and factions, for that matter) of the sole in-character means of defense they have against the otherwise completely uncounterable psionics used exclusively by the Random Alien.

Lastly, I feel that this change should be debated in its own forum thread due to its magnitude and to avoid derailing/cluttering this thread.

I havily disagree, when the creator of the page has explicitly stated that that is not how they work, or have ever worked.

I never said every attack should be bypassing the PSC, I said that it should be RP'd out, and players should be allowed to choose what happens to their character. Making it invulnerable is closing more RP doors than it opens, preventing players from allowing ANY psionic ability, such as even the most basic forms of communication. Ultimately, player freedom and creativity should come first.

It should be resistant, not invulnerable and I stand by that statement.

You're removing player freedom, and that is a direct violation of player rights.

 

[Soban]

It should not deprive them of a means of defense, any more than a shield being able to be penetrated after getting shot enough times means the shield is worthless.

Lastly, I feel that this change should be debated in its own forum thread due to its magnitude and to avoid derailing/cluttering this thread.

I agree

 

[Alex Hart]

I think we ought to wait for Wes himself to weigh in, however I don't really think it's unreasonable for the PSC to be merely resistant (to what degree I think that falls to Wes to decide) if there's in-roleplay precedent for it not being totally invincible, even from the GM side. Ultimately, it makes the defenses imperfect rather than invulnerable. That just means that instead of laughing off a threat, you have to deal with it before you're overwhelmed.

 

[Ametheliana]

GM discretion. The exceptions made through GM discretion do not change the rule, they're just the exceptions.

I have made the GM discretion, myself, to have the PSC useful and prevent psionic mishhuvurthyar boarding a vessel with a PSC. That rp would be 100% different if the PSC didn't work.

@Deleted User You seem interested in psionics, what with your species and now. Maybe look into the Iromakuanhe?

 

[Deleted member 6093]

GM discretion. The exceptions made through GM discretion do not change the rule, they're just the exceptions.

I have made the GM discretion, myself, to have the PSC useful and prevent psionic mishhuvurthyar boarding a vessel with a PSC. That rp would be 100% different if the PSC didn't work.

@Deleted User You seem interested in psionics, what with your species and now. Maybe look into the Iromakuanhe?

The common misconception here is not that it doesen't work, rather it doesen't work in ALL cases.

I'm saying it still works, but at the level of individual player discretion.

Resistant does not mean useless.