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[Yamatai] Chiaki-class Escort Destroyer
- Thread starter Doshii Jun
- Start date
Fred
Retired Staff
*facepalm* What's the point of it if it can't store the ST data on the main computer like every ship was able to do before the Type 30 MTBU came up?
Doshii, obviously, you'll have to change it to something that'll be more intuitive to the Chiaki. At worst, I guess you could just write your own small entry for the more traditional ST backup station.
Also, Nashoba, the Chiaki is dead on a Yuuko gunboat replacement already. Seems pretty obvious to me if you read the fluff text. *shrugs*
Doshii, obviously, you'll have to change it to something that'll be more intuitive to the Chiaki. At worst, I guess you could just write your own small entry for the more traditional ST backup station.
Also, Nashoba, the Chiaki is dead on a Yuuko gunboat replacement already. Seems pretty obvious to me if you read the fluff text. *shrugs*
Chiaki states its a replacement for the Ketsueki-class escort, and I plan on rolling it out as replacement for the Arashi-class Escort.
Both of these are for escorting capital vessels. The Chiaki has a max potential of 21 SDR in an engagement. Which gives it a fighting chance going toe to toe against larger ships. The Hayai has to operate in packs to have a chance of going against the same ship.
Gunboats are more for Wolf-Pack operations looking for targets of opportunity, they are not really for fleet defense.
As for the Savior pod, one could allow the computer too, but then if the ship is destroyed all the backups are lost. Most designs going back a ways to the Nozomi all include the pod as a better way of ensuring the crew can be brought back by a Jihi or Minori Hospital ship.
So its really up to Doshii if he wants to give them that capability or not.
Both of these are for escorting capital vessels. The Chiaki has a max potential of 21 SDR in an engagement. Which gives it a fighting chance going toe to toe against larger ships. The Hayai has to operate in packs to have a chance of going against the same ship.
Gunboats are more for Wolf-Pack operations looking for targets of opportunity, they are not really for fleet defense.
As for the Savior pod, one could allow the computer too, but then if the ship is destroyed all the backups are lost. Most designs going back a ways to the Nozomi all include the pod as a better way of ensuring the crew can be brought back by a Jihi or Minori Hospital ship.
So its really up to Doshii if he wants to give them that capability or not.
Whooo. A lot to think about! Lemme break it down.
Purpose: The fluff text is mostly just that — it's my IC reasoning as to why anyone would want to create the Chiaki-class to begin with. That reasoning can change depending on what else is out there. At the time this was started, no one was talking about the Arashi being replaced.
Now we apparently are talking about that.
If the Hayai is destined for approval, and that seems likely, then it really does fill the Ketsueki's roll much better than the Chiaki. It has torpedoes, after all, which can bring major damage in a short timespan. It also replaces the Yuuko by virtue of size, speed and capabilities.
That means the Chiaki is not filling those roles.
However, the Chiaki doesn't have even half the weaponry of the Arashi, never mind the damage potential. If I were Yamatai, I'd be refurbishing my Arashis (and thus giving them new art) until they were up to snuff. Then I'd build more, minus the big Legacy cannon. Sure, the Chiaki (as it stands) has 20/20 (2) damage resistance, but it has very little in the way of damage potential compared to the Arashi.
Chiaki =/= Arashi, in other words. Is it meant to fill that role just because it's convenient? I can always make up stuff in the fluff; I just need to know if that's the case or not.
Is it a gunboat or escort or what?: I gave the Chiaki the bit about "wolfpacking" because alone, they are much less capable of quickly dispatching an enemy vessel, which I felt was a necessary component of fleet defense.
In a pinch, they CAN fill in as an offensive unit, and be fairly effective. It's just not their designed-for mission of capital ship and/or fleet defense. I'm not trying to step on the Hayai with that point; Nash's ship is smaller and has better offensive "moves" than the Chiaki.
More than anything, that "wolfpack" part is just me. I want my designs to be utilitarian and versatile, capable of filling in (but not necessarily excelling) wherever they are needed — just like me.
If that part offends, I can take it out.
Deadly by design: I was going back and forth about escape pods or a Soul Savior Pod. I know I wanted one or the other.
I think I went with escapes because people had called the SSP lame and thought it reinforced the "durr hurr Yamatai never dies" motif of the Star Army. But honestly, it's a small, cramped ship that uses as much of its space as possible. It probably should just have an SSP and send everyone to the shuttle bay in an emergency. Last one there gets revived in a Yui clone!
On the hull: I realize now my math was wrong and I put in the wrong hull number. According to the correct math, I have enough SP (Size 1) left over to give it a 16/20 (2) damage rating, so I'll stick that in instead.
A hull of 8 makes it the most flimsy starship Yamatai offers and pegs it in a civilian class. The Chiaki is supposed to be tough as nails, and a hull of 16 makes it that without encroaching on other ships.
Purpose: The fluff text is mostly just that — it's my IC reasoning as to why anyone would want to create the Chiaki-class to begin with. That reasoning can change depending on what else is out there. At the time this was started, no one was talking about the Arashi being replaced.
Now we apparently are talking about that.
If the Hayai is destined for approval, and that seems likely, then it really does fill the Ketsueki's roll much better than the Chiaki. It has torpedoes, after all, which can bring major damage in a short timespan. It also replaces the Yuuko by virtue of size, speed and capabilities.
That means the Chiaki is not filling those roles.
However, the Chiaki doesn't have even half the weaponry of the Arashi, never mind the damage potential. If I were Yamatai, I'd be refurbishing my Arashis (and thus giving them new art) until they were up to snuff. Then I'd build more, minus the big Legacy cannon. Sure, the Chiaki (as it stands) has 20/20 (2) damage resistance, but it has very little in the way of damage potential compared to the Arashi.
Chiaki =/= Arashi, in other words. Is it meant to fill that role just because it's convenient? I can always make up stuff in the fluff; I just need to know if that's the case or not.
Is it a gunboat or escort or what?: I gave the Chiaki the bit about "wolfpacking" because alone, they are much less capable of quickly dispatching an enemy vessel, which I felt was a necessary component of fleet defense.
In a pinch, they CAN fill in as an offensive unit, and be fairly effective. It's just not their designed-for mission of capital ship and/or fleet defense. I'm not trying to step on the Hayai with that point; Nash's ship is smaller and has better offensive "moves" than the Chiaki.
More than anything, that "wolfpack" part is just me. I want my designs to be utilitarian and versatile, capable of filling in (but not necessarily excelling) wherever they are needed — just like me.
If that part offends, I can take it out.
Deadly by design: I was going back and forth about escape pods or a Soul Savior Pod. I know I wanted one or the other.
I think I went with escapes because people had called the SSP lame and thought it reinforced the "durr hurr Yamatai never dies" motif of the Star Army. But honestly, it's a small, cramped ship that uses as much of its space as possible. It probably should just have an SSP and send everyone to the shuttle bay in an emergency. Last one there gets revived in a Yui clone!
On the hull: I realize now my math was wrong and I put in the wrong hull number. According to the correct math, I have enough SP (Size 1) left over to give it a 16/20 (2) damage rating, so I'll stick that in instead.
A hull of 8 makes it the most flimsy starship Yamatai offers and pegs it in a civilian class. The Chiaki is supposed to be tough as nails, and a hull of 16 makes it that without encroaching on other ships.
Fred
Retired Staff
The Arashi was never really an escort. At was a token warship, with propulsion, guns and shields. Nothing about the Arashi save fluff text even had it sit well into the Escort roles - an Arashi could've just as well covered for other combat roles.
Had the Chiaki been created years ago, I imagine it would've been ideal to be the escort vessel Ayame-class "jumpships" would've carried along with them instead of Yuis.
The Chiaki, as I see it, is a purebred warship. If you want more independence and greater range, then your ship of choice should be a Plumeria.
Right now, the heavy escort role in the Star Army of Yamatai seems to be tied in-between the Type 30 Irim heavy gunship and the Eikan-class cruiser. I've often though that the Irim was really more like a light carrier instead of a gunship... whereas if the Eikan would be devoid of fold capabilities, it'd sit very solidly in the Heavy escort destroyer role. Both ships would have much more defined identities and roles.
For the record, calling the Himiko-class a light escort was a mistake. Presently, the Himiko-class is more like a medium-size monitor. Light cruiser would be appropriate... if it would be around as beefy as the Irim and better-well-rounded. >_>;
Had the Chiaki been created years ago, I imagine it would've been ideal to be the escort vessel Ayame-class "jumpships" would've carried along with them instead of Yuis.
The Chiaki, as I see it, is a purebred warship. If you want more independence and greater range, then your ship of choice should be a Plumeria.
Right now, the heavy escort role in the Star Army of Yamatai seems to be tied in-between the Type 30 Irim heavy gunship and the Eikan-class cruiser. I've often though that the Irim was really more like a light carrier instead of a gunship... whereas if the Eikan would be devoid of fold capabilities, it'd sit very solidly in the Heavy escort destroyer role. Both ships would have much more defined identities and roles.
For the record, calling the Himiko-class a light escort was a mistake. Presently, the Himiko-class is more like a medium-size monitor. Light cruiser would be appropriate... if it would be around as beefy as the Irim and better-well-rounded. >_>;
Should I then, in this case, rename the Chiaki to something else?
;
Yeah, I just meant the "Escort Destroyer" part. OK, then I shall leave it be.
The Chiaki is a good design, its not a gunboat, but as a ED, it fills that role nicely. And technically almost any of the smaller ships, even the Plumeria could be deployed in Wolf-Pack groups.
And I can definitely see it have a role with the Heitan-Class, which by virtue of its Hyperspace Field Booster, could take a group of the Chiaki with it into fold. As an Escort Destroyer, they would be there to protect the carrier from enemy ships.
And I can definitely see it have a role with the Heitan-Class, which by virtue of its Hyperspace Field Booster, could take a group of the Chiaki with it into fold. As an Escort Destroyer, they would be there to protect the carrier from enemy ships.
Rockin', Nash!
The hope with the Chiaki is that it not only can make a good plotship, but good background vessels for GMs to use as required.
The hope with the Chiaki is that it not only can make a good plotship, but good background vessels for GMs to use as required.
Fred
Retired Staff
I think Nashoba's take on Chiaki's escorting the Heitan-class is pretty interesting. On a similar line, I was thinking about the relationship the Chiaki could have with a Plumeria-class gunship.
We presently have two plotships that star Plumeria-class gunships: the Eucharis and the Aeon. Each of those is actually the leading vessel of a squadron of vessel.
In the last five years, Wes has gone through great lengths to portray the KFY light gunships as special - from sexy to fast to powerful despite being a relatively light vessel. So, as I understand it, the ship class when portrayed as a plotship has benefited from a considerable amount of plot armor.
I don't mean this in a degrading way. But, I've noticed that the plotships showed much more endurance against harm than other similar vessels that were part of their squadron and run by NPCs. Where I've seen the YSS Sakura take two dozen serious hits from positron cannons across its hull, I've seen other Sakura gunship get destroyed in a single shot of the same weapon.
So, yeah, it's a little inconsistent. There could be a better formula than having squadrons made entirely of Plumerias. Enters the Chiaki.
The Chiaki is smaller than a Plumeria gunship. It has a very fair weapon loadout that's pretty much a near equivalent to the pre-turret-crazy Plumeria-refits. It's definitely a useful, durable ally to have along... but it's also a more suspension-of-disbelief-adequate disposable redshirt as well. So, basically, if a Chiaki in a Plumeria-lead squadron is destroyed, it doesn't by comparison make the Plumeria itself look bad. In fact, by contrast, the Plumeria is made to look more powerful.
Also, if the Plumeria becomes a light squadron-central vessel, it allows it as a unit to face down much heavier opponents. I've noted Wes had a tendency to have his plotship face foes that were far more massive than his little gunship. ^_^;
The Chiaki would depend on a Plumeria's fold drive. This allows a Plumeria plotship to be an important lynchpin in a small squadron in more ways than just being a command vessel. Part of the Plumeria's specialness is pretty much in being one of the lighter vessels that has a powerful fold drive - similarily, perhaps, to Babylon 5's Whitestars.
Also, seeing the Chiaki has a lot of part compatibility with the Plumeria, it allows the Plumeria plotship to be able to scrounge and salvage from a Chiaki's wreckage with more ease.
Don't get me wrong. The point is not to say that the Chiaki is weak and disposable. I'm just pointing out one way the ship can achieve positive portrayal for more elements than just itself. I see the Chiaki as a very capable small vessel that will give a good showing of itself as long as it operates around similar size vessels.
As in, staying with comparatively light friendlies such as the Yui-7 and the Midori; or combating opponents with limited assets such as pirates, swarms of battlepods, or the lighter destroyers and scoutships the NMX field out. When tackling larger ships, then the aforementioned wolfpack tactics swings into play.
Another high-point of the Chiaki is how it's a low-crew vessel intended to fight in an almost dogfighting-style fashion with fairly straightforward weapon system. I remember Wes wanted to make ship commanding more accessible to players and I strongly believe the Chiaki's small size and accessibility will contribute to that.
We presently have two plotships that star Plumeria-class gunships: the Eucharis and the Aeon. Each of those is actually the leading vessel of a squadron of vessel.
In the last five years, Wes has gone through great lengths to portray the KFY light gunships as special - from sexy to fast to powerful despite being a relatively light vessel. So, as I understand it, the ship class when portrayed as a plotship has benefited from a considerable amount of plot armor.
I don't mean this in a degrading way. But, I've noticed that the plotships showed much more endurance against harm than other similar vessels that were part of their squadron and run by NPCs. Where I've seen the YSS Sakura take two dozen serious hits from positron cannons across its hull, I've seen other Sakura gunship get destroyed in a single shot of the same weapon.
So, yeah, it's a little inconsistent. There could be a better formula than having squadrons made entirely of Plumerias. Enters the Chiaki.
The Chiaki is smaller than a Plumeria gunship. It has a very fair weapon loadout that's pretty much a near equivalent to the pre-turret-crazy Plumeria-refits. It's definitely a useful, durable ally to have along... but it's also a more suspension-of-disbelief-adequate disposable redshirt as well. So, basically, if a Chiaki in a Plumeria-lead squadron is destroyed, it doesn't by comparison make the Plumeria itself look bad. In fact, by contrast, the Plumeria is made to look more powerful.
Also, if the Plumeria becomes a light squadron-central vessel, it allows it as a unit to face down much heavier opponents. I've noted Wes had a tendency to have his plotship face foes that were far more massive than his little gunship. ^_^;
The Chiaki would depend on a Plumeria's fold drive. This allows a Plumeria plotship to be an important lynchpin in a small squadron in more ways than just being a command vessel. Part of the Plumeria's specialness is pretty much in being one of the lighter vessels that has a powerful fold drive - similarily, perhaps, to Babylon 5's Whitestars.
Also, seeing the Chiaki has a lot of part compatibility with the Plumeria, it allows the Plumeria plotship to be able to scrounge and salvage from a Chiaki's wreckage with more ease.
Don't get me wrong. The point is not to say that the Chiaki is weak and disposable. I'm just pointing out one way the ship can achieve positive portrayal for more elements than just itself. I see the Chiaki as a very capable small vessel that will give a good showing of itself as long as it operates around similar size vessels.
As in, staying with comparatively light friendlies such as the Yui-7 and the Midori; or combating opponents with limited assets such as pirates, swarms of battlepods, or the lighter destroyers and scoutships the NMX field out. When tackling larger ships, then the aforementioned wolfpack tactics swings into play.
Another high-point of the Chiaki is how it's a low-crew vessel intended to fight in an almost dogfighting-style fashion with fairly straightforward weapon system. I remember Wes wanted to make ship commanding more accessible to players and I strongly believe the Chiaki's small size and accessibility will contribute to that.
Fred, have I ever told you how awesome you are? Because you are.
The idea about the Chiaki and how it works with a Plumeria in a small squadron feels just perfect. Hell, for any of the fold-capable plotship-types, it seems like a good idea; if you need some extra firepower that has low crew cost and low material cost, use the Chiaki. If you want something that can break away instead and operate on its own, snag a Hayai or Yui.
Using the Chiaki as cheap-but-effective cannon fodder makes sense, too. Send them in with positron rounds blazing and you can really hurt the enemy fast. If you lose them, you likely got some good use out of them.
The signature tactic I had in mind for them was related to the A-wing Slash of Timothy Zahn fame, and one of the reasons I wanted the vessels to have stealth. Brought in with a larger vessel and drawing on its sensor data, the Chiakis could streak toward a target undetected, devastate it within a volley or two, then disappear again. My sandbox's Shikome Squadron was going to use the tactic.
The idea about the Chiaki and how it works with a Plumeria in a small squadron feels just perfect. Hell, for any of the fold-capable plotship-types, it seems like a good idea; if you need some extra firepower that has low crew cost and low material cost, use the Chiaki. If you want something that can break away instead and operate on its own, snag a Hayai or Yui.
Using the Chiaki as cheap-but-effective cannon fodder makes sense, too. Send them in with positron rounds blazing and you can really hurt the enemy fast. If you lose them, you likely got some good use out of them.
The signature tactic I had in mind for them was related to the A-wing Slash of Timothy Zahn fame, and one of the reasons I wanted the vessels to have stealth. Brought in with a larger vessel and drawing on its sensor data, the Chiakis could streak toward a target undetected, devastate it within a volley or two, then disappear again. My sandbox's Shikome Squadron was going to use the tactic.
Okay, there is one small hiccup, you have the Chiaki listed as Ke-D3, but that designation is the Arashi. In fact you need to go to Ke-D7 to not have a used value.
Other than that, unless anyone else has an issues I will approve it.
Other than that, unless anyone else has an issues I will approve it.
Oh hell, I'll get that. I can't remember why I used D3.
Changed to D7, and the Mass Driver Gun is also now linked to a page showing it's a weapon for the D7.
Changed to D7, and the Mass Driver Gun is also now linked to a page showing it's a weapon for the D7.
