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[Yamatai] Type 35 MBT

CadetNewb

CadetNewb

Well-Known Member
Submission Type: Main Battle Tank
Submission URL: Type 35 MBT "Jinsoku Oni"

Faction: Yamatai
FM Approval: No
Faction Art Requirement: Yes

For Reviewers:
Unapproved Sub-Articles: No
New Art: Yes
Previously Submitted: No

Notes:

This has been sitting in my inventory for a long time, and is more or less my way of introducing some real tanks into the Star Army (and eventually the setting overall) to back up our power armors. Bringing the Army part back into Star Army more or less. Several factors, including the perfect timing, have made it so I'm finally putting it up for approval as the first of its series. It's also the first time putting in a usage guide into the article too, so I hope that's looking good.
 
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Well, the 25mm autocannons are hypervelocity gauss weapons. I deliberately left out their velocity when they were made not just because it was not required, but also because I feared it would cause a lot of bickering. Regardless, the range of 10 kilometers is there for a reason. The rounds travel at a very high velocity and relies more on the kinetic energy resulting out of that than than having a lower velocity but higher mass + explosive filler as the 35mm in current Star Army use does. Because of this, I believe that it Can hit targets not heading towards it, but that's not even the point of these weapons that I had mounted here.

It's to defend the platform from attacking aircraft, which most likely will be heading towards it, so there's no need to worry about it. And though the main cannon's round does airburst if desired, the thing isn't meant to hunt down fighter bombers at all. Which brings me to something else Osaka - I think you're misunderstanding the intended role that the vehicle is supposed to fill. It's to act as a fast, armored spearhead across wide open spaces or give power armor direct fire, close up support. One that can reasonably keep up with PA in the setting.

It's not a 'Tank-Fighter' as you said - it can't even hover more than two and a half meters off the ground, and the higher it hovers the slower it goes anyways. Its average, optimal hover height is 30 centimeters, or roughly one foot. And for its given role, this is perfectly adequate. Though these 'Seige Tanks' you mention are powerful, and the vehicle's cannon also capable of committing artillery bombardments, that idea too is not what I'm going after. That's a completely different military niche that's not applicable to be compared to this one here - both NLOS and LOS support types have their benefits and drawbacks, but here, with this vehicle? It's a close, direct line of sight support vehicle for PA when its in cities, and a long range one in open plains.

Please do not confuse this for something completely different Osaka. That is, don't compare apples and oranges. It's perfectly fine that you prefer the NLOS concept, but please try not to push your own idea onto this one here - I feel I have to repeat this again;

What you're thinking of and what I have here with the Oni are very, very different machines, with similar, but also very distinctly different methodologies, functions, roles, what have you. Also, and I don't mean any malice when I say this; I must question if you had fully read the article - I had gone out of my way to ensure that my vehicle has several offensive and defensive countermeasure launchers mounted on the hull, and was never meant to rely solely on its armor as a means of defense. I feel a little offended that you implied it relied solely on just its shields and armor, rather than active countermeasures and mobility as well.

When I made this vehicle, I very specifically made it because an important niche was missing from the Star Army's inventory - though it had the TASHA, the niche was only partially filled and not filled optimally, so the Oni was made. It was very specifically made to "plug into a larger cohesive force" as you say Osaka, not just because I asked the question "wouldn't it be cool to have a tank?". Rather, it was made specifically because not only was there a niche to fill, but I also wanted a tank as well. I simply took the advantage of the situation, that is, the gap in the Star Army's inventory.

I'm having my cake and eating it too.

And uh, no Doshii - the art was custom made. Arieg wasn't happy, but I got exactly what I asked for. If the Star Army wishes to advance to a more novel or radical idea, that's fine. This vehicle is meant to fill a missing or inadequately filled role as well as be a stepping stone for future ideas and creations that people have. I'm not going to try and make the 'perfect' war machine out of the box here. I want to see the site grow over time. So yes, I know this machine has its flaws and that it's not perfect.

I'm fine with this because I know those same flaws give it character.
 
Fighter just means "a vehicle that kills others of its own classification", not a jet.

That is to say, an anti-tank tank which sounds as silly as an "anti aircraft aircraft". A tank-fighter. It fights, seeks and destroys other tanks.

As for active defence, a lot of weapons don't work based on where the tank is with a constant feed of information but simulate where its going to be based on its known trajectory and inertia. They compute the statistical likelihood's of where its going to be based on where the driver is likely going to put the tank based on their actions seen prior to the event and how quickly they respond and in turn, usually aim for a volume area the tank takes in most of the simulations, meaning if there are 512 simulations and out of 300 of them, the tank swerves right and puts on the gas at slightly different angles, it'll work out the position they all had in common before the maximum divergence and aim to strike that location.

There's also independent Lock-On-After-Launch, networked guidance, vantage locking (assuming a high position before guiding down onto a target, which is discovered to be especially effective against two-axis CIWS systems because they hit mechanical Euler gimbal lock and the software takes longer to compensate (its one of the biggest unsolved issues in robotics because of the unpredictable motion it creates -- a common workaround being inverse kinematic systems) and there's silent boresight launching: Launching as a mortar or tank round, then once an altitude has been achieved, guiding down onto a target thrustlessly (making it a bitch to detect).

All of these things give a tank less time to react.

All I wanted to suggest on that front was a CIWS system, even if its only a light one.

As for my massive divergence from your original post, that's the sort of game I play. I like showing there are alternatives. Sort of like the role of a commander on a starship: I don't want to interfere with your vision, I just want to point out potential alternatives and voice any concerns. What you do with your submission is entirely your own prerogative.

I'm showing you potential problems you haven't solved yet because honestly, that's where I get my jollies. My rants are cathartic if useless.

That said, its a very handsome tank, isn't it?
 
The Gartagens use Walkers these days, but they are used more as mobile weapon's platforms with ball shaped actuators that enable swift targeting and pinpoint delivery of rounds.

Though Gartagen tanks are used less as MBTs and more as support platforms delivering heavy fire power when needed, and in the case of the Soko transporting soldiers into the fray and backing them up, or in the case of the tunneler digging under ground for surprise attacks.

Really Infantry and heavy infantry would likely be the norm. Dedicated MBTs would fall prey to aerial attacks fairly easily with out stiff and costly defenses.

Honestly I highly doubt Yamatai would even use heavy armor like this considering how they operate. Likely I figure Yamatai would rely more on gunships that deliver troops in from space. Land based combat vehicles are not really the style of Yamatai's fast and speedy attack strategies IMHO.
 
Osaka, I think you're referring to a "Tank Destroyer" - the word "Fighter" only applies to aircraft. In this case, the Oni is definitely not a TD like the StuG III or M18 Hellcat from IRL. Tank Destroyers fell out of favor since the advent of the Main Battle Tank, which could do their role just as well (destroying tanks), but also its own various other jobs (supporting infantry, fortification demolition) which a TD could not do very well at all due to limitations in their designs.

And Ira, I must say that backing soldiers up is one of the roles of the tank, just as your Soko does. No matter what, heavy armor will always be vulnerable to aircraft, your Soko included. Yet, at the same time, will also always have a major role in the battlefield. Though Yamatai specializes in fast, furious attacks akin to a blitzkrieg, that's not always an option. One can't simply blitz through a heavily built up city you want to recapture - it's got to be picked through block by block.

That's just one of the jobs of both the Soko and the Oni.
 
What is the purpose of this tank? I still have no idea why I would want this for the Star Army.

In fact, I've become increasingly convinced I should also eliminate the Type 34 tank from the Star Army because it's pointless too. Soldiers wearing power armor can carry tank levels of firepower and are more mobile. There is no target that I can think of that a tank would be better suited to fight against than a gunship or an armored neko.
 
As a defensive option. This tank, were it equipped with variable turret options could act as a defensive option for Yamatai's forces. Much like a mobile weapons plat form, it could be fitted with various different cannons and be positions where needed.

Example: It could be fitted with a SPACE AGED AA turret to stop inbound enemy invasion craft. Or BE be out fitted with a heavy SPACE MECH GUN to stop power armor and troops...sort of like a big MG nest.
 
Power Armor can definitely bring superior firepower to any tank. But I think having the tactical option of a mobile, hard target is nice to have in the Star Army's inventory. Combined arms isn't all about swarms of highly mobile superweapons.
 
Wes said:
What is the purpose of this tank? I still have no idea why I would want this for the Star Army.

In fact, I've become increasingly convinced I should also eliminate the Type 34 tank from the Star Army because it's pointless too. Soldiers wearing power armor can carry tank levels of firepower and are more mobile. There is no target that I can think of that a tank would be better suited to fight against than a gunship or an armored neko.
Click to expand...

Wes, I've stated why the tank would be very useful for the Star Army, but I've apparently done a bad job at that. A tank isn't useful for the raids that you prefer doing in the Eucharis, but it is very, very useful for full on planetary invasions. Even though we favor lightning war, blitzkrieg, no matter what, we have to stop and fight in cities block by block. That's where tanks come in handy. And the plot that I'm a Co-GM in, the 5th Fleet, centers around planetary invasion and large scale Star Army ground action. The Type 34 is a prototype, a provisional model, which will, in the plot, eventually lead to the Type 35.

Power armors are far more mobile than the tanks, yes, but they carry nowhere near as much firepower, shields or armor as a tank does. And there are certainly times where these are needed more than being fast and quick are, where a gunship or power armored Neko is simply not going to do the job right.

Gunships have the firepower, but the troops have to wait for them to swoop in - a tank will always be there while a gunship can be flying about doing who-knows-what like avoiding AA fire or maybe even tied up by fighters. Or maybe even just trying to get over there in time. Meanwhile, the very suits they wear do have the mobility, but not the staying power or sheer amount of firepower a tank has. Power Armor will always remain the center of the Star Army, but they do need backup when they don't have the sheer durability and firepower.

That's just one of many things that the tanks are there for; to be right behind the Mindy and Daisy waiting just in case they need the backup.
 
Invasions. You realise then, that if that's what this is really for, there's going to be political fallout for developing such a weapon?

I think if anything, this would be for holding territory and not letting go. In that respect, it needs to act as a lot more than a tank.

For one, a mobile command-centre. A node of a planet-wide information infrastructure. A sensor hub, to ensure those who are reviewing the information from afar are informed.

It might help to think of the tank as… Braces correcting teeth. Their real power comes from networking them and acting as a supply-line.

So… If its meant to be backup, why doesn't it contain any other facilities?

Parts. Armaments. Repair equipment. Maybe somewhere for pilots to get some R&R. Its as much a tank as it is a command centre and mobile home.

And to be fair, I'm still shocked you're not using it as an artillery platform -- so it can lock down in a city somewhere and provide backup to PA just about anywhere (even doing interception on the fringe-borders of the settlement) in the form of GPS aided non-line-of-sight parabolic shelling to help the units hold the location for an extended period of time -- since a gunship can't be on station over an entire planet at once and might take time to reach a location if something's dragging it away (like say, another gunship).


As for PA carrying PA? Why not? If they're A-Class, with gravitic manipulation, they could easily carry each other (downside being they give away their positions by doing it).

And why not carry a folded up PA? One that just unfolds, like a briefcase. I'm surprised SARP armour can't fight without pilots yet. It'd be a nice way of creating grunts.

And yes, I am talking about this on a grunt basis. SARP always needs stuff for players to shoot at.

Mooks are always needed.
 
Well the other thing is...this really does not fit into Yamatai's style. You could get away with making a larger combat armor then a tank. I think thats what you are missing Cadet. Tanks are not really Yamatai.
 
Let's see - still waiting on Wes to speak, but got quite a few to reply to here...

Osaka, there's no real 'political fallout' about this in my opinion - the NMX war is wrapping up with Yamatai retaking all of its worlds. There's just mostly mop-ups which involve invading any of the border colony worlds and wrestling them back, or smacking down bordering enemy planets. That means that this vehicle is like the M26 Pershing during WWII - great, but mostly too late. If anything, the SAoY could have really used this a lot more in YE 34 where there was a lot more intense fighting to retake planets bit by bit and block by block.

Also, you're over-thinking it. The vehicle has a very specific role, which is to support PAs that are in an invading army with mobile firepower they don't have. And, I think I said this earlier, the tank definitely can be used as indirect fire artillery. It's not meant to, but it can - the dedicated vehicle for that is almost ready, but that's another topic.

In regard's to Ira's concern, the Star Army has had tanks before - rather, rather lackluster tankettes. After those, came the Elf Hover Tank, the Troll Tank, and the TASHA which plays a similar role. I'm hoping to ditch the Troll, move the Elf into reserve, and have the Oni be a tougher, harder hitting counterpart to the faster and more nimble TASHA.

What's more, this is just the 1A version guys - as the story of our site goes on, it can obviously get upgraded or be replaced by an even better design. Maybe some Nekos out there will miss the Elf's flight/cruise ability and put that in. Or maybe someone will decide they want it to evolve into a heavy walker. who knows? This is being made for a story, and one that I hope to see change and grow over time.

We've already watched the Star Army have the supporting cast for the star Power Armors go from Tankettes to Tank and Hover Tank, and then MBT with the Type 34. This is just another step up from that process which in turn can become another stepping stone to something even nicer.
 
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