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Rejected Submission YE30 Accelerated Generation Program

Fian

Fian

Well-Known Member
Submission Type: Sub-race
Submission URL:
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:ye30_accelerated_generation_program

Faction: SAoN
FM Approved Yet? YES
Faction requires art? PENDING GENERAL APPROVAL

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? NO
Contains New art? NO
Previously Submitted? NO

Notes: This is the first step in making the Nepleslian colonies a viable 'homeplanet' for new characters. Once this article is approved, I would comission art, add backlinks, modify the Nep CCG to reflect this, and develop/standardize all the nep colony planet articles.
 
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Here's some issues I found:
  1. The page needs content after the title header. There should be an overview there with a link to the year it was created.
  2. There's a space between YE and the year number. This will require the page to be moved (no big deal, I can do it for you easily with the new move plugin)
  3. The things mentioned in the article should link to those things (it's a wiki, not a PDF!)
I see what you're trying to do, but I also have reservations about it being started in YE 30. Remember that YE 30 lasted from summer 2007, until December 31, 2008. That's a long time ago. As the setting manager, I'm the guy with the power to authorize this kind of retcon but I need some convincing. I think Nepleslia going into genetically engineering is somewhat questionable from a flavor standpoint (very similar to nekos) but I'm somewhat okay with it since you have FM approval...because old Nepleslia is not the same as current Nepleslia. However, therein lies the problem: This isn't a submission for current Nepleslia, but rather a past Nepleslia that could've done these things but didn't. Instead, it comes off as a cheap move to magically and instantly place a population on each of Nepleslia's planets. Is there a way we can do this without the retcon? Maybe start the program now instead of in the past?
 
Well yes, admittedly this is a Retcon and all its unpleasant implications. I would argue that it would have been very hard for anyone of us OOCly to plan five years ahead, leadership wise Nepleslia has seen up to five FM changes (Tom, Me, Uso, Koku, Sigma) since then. It is not without IC basis however, as from the very start we have recognized the challenges facing the Nepleslian population, and I have a document saved from the old forum from way back then highlighting this ICly and proposing some form of genetic manipulation, just not specifically the YE30 AGP (warning, bad 18 year old grammar). https://titanpad.com/e8D85vNwIM

Without the retcon we will be looking at 10 OOC years from now for a natural population or 5 OOC years for an accelerated one, which in terms of 'fun' is like serving a real life jail sentence for buglary.

I argue that this retcon would provide a lot of oppurtunities for everyone in terms of new characters and content, and the benefits outweight the costs. I could bring the program forward to YE31 as so the retcon is 2 years less and that it starts bearing fruit next OOC year, which would give me extra time to prepare the other supporting articles. I pray that you would make an exception.
 
I normally do not like RETCON's because they play havoc with the site and continuity. But what this is really doing is giving you a surplus population to move. Nothing in this talks about the Accelerated being put on planets. So even if you bumped the date so that YE 36 or YE 37 they became adults they would still have come from the core worlds.

The Nepleslian Colonization Expansion claiming half the map didn't happen until this year, ICLY when it was announced by the Premier, but Colonial expanse page claims it started in YE 30. So there is already disparity. Plus most of the planet/systems pages, show very low populations, ones that could easily be handled by the overpopulation of the core worlds. So besides fabricating backgrounds for new characters, how is this truly needed. If this is just so characters can come from a planet that their family moved to as part of the colonization, and not a way to turn all those worlds into major populations centers. I can accept that.
 
Nashoba said:
So besides fabricating backgrounds for new characters, how is this truly needed. If this is just so characters can come from a planet that their family moved to as part of the colonization, and not a way to turn all those worlds into major populations centers. I can accept that.
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These are my intentions exactly, to fully maximize the use potential of writing up the planets by allowing new players to start from there. The colonial systems with the exception of Nep Prime will be for the forseeable decade even, be the countrysides, villages and towns to the core world's city. I am aware that the northwestern systems were only just recently claimed, and these will not have accelerateds until the appopriate time, the rest however were claimed at the same time as Nepleslia Prime which would fall under the ambit of this retrospective exercise.
 
to fully maximize the use potential of writing up the planets by allowing new players to start from there.
Click to expand...
These are the major issues I find with this:
  1. "Johnny was born on Fortuna" doesn't make a character a better, richer, or more "maximized" character than "Johnny was born on Nepleslia" or "He and his family moved to Fortuna in YE 30." Claiming you need a major retcon turning back time by six IRL years just so people can slightly alter their biography pages seems silly to me.
  2. If you wanted to maximize character backgrounds, you wouldn't rob the characters of their childhoods by rushing them through that part of their lives. If this proposal is approved, you'll have literal 6-year-olds in teenage bodies joining your military. Even with the subconscious mind-altering you're still essentially throwing a kindergartener into the adult world.
  3. Nepleslian has been cloning adult people for all of its known history. If this program was implemented without a retcon, you could just use clones in the meantime to fill the gap if the lack of people is a motivation for this.
 
1. If the OOC reasoning is silly, then I have no defence.

2. I would raise the argument that we are throwing in people with no childhoods into the fight, and that youngling nekos have similar shortened development times before they become combat effective, if this argument by IC comparison is not accepted, then I have no defence.

3. Lack of people on the colonies is not a motivation for this, avoiding the use of clones is part of the motivation. If above IC and OOC issues remain, then I do not wish to implement this program on its (de)merits, in which case I would like to withdraw this submission with gratitude for the input and no ill will to all parties for highlighting the flaws of the article.
 
Fian said:
Lack of people on the colonies is not a motivation for this, avoiding the use of clones is part of the motivation.
Click to expand...
Considering the nobility of this motivation, we should try to find a way to reach its merits without its methods.

Yamatai found a way to rebuild its "human" population after several plagues through genetic engineering. Davis could have started a secret program years ago to try and get Nepleslia toward the same result, creating a new "body" of sorts that gets Nepleslia away from having 80% male clones. Nepleslia likely has at least some technology still from its days with Yamatai. Is it totally unfounded that they could have created something like this and only now it's coming to fruition? Something that led to the modified people having accelerated growth?

Also, Nepleslia's flavor now is much less about being mostly male and more about hypermasculinity and fiercely independent. Perfect for colony worlds. This seems like a good goal.
 
I'm not going to argue that Nepleslia couldn't do it, but it's the retcon that bugs me mostly. I'd have approved this already if the starting year was YE 36.

Also if Nepleslians are fiercely independent, shouldn't this program face widespread Nepleslian opposition? If you think about it, the program involves brainwashing in the literal sense, with these kids getting ten years of government-issue development programming from an implant and only half that--5 years--from their real parents.
 
The program might face widespread opposition, but if it was done in secret — say, around the time of Nepleslia's independence — it's hard to really bitch about spilt milk.

Yes, it puts the program farther in the past if you time it that way, but if you shrink the population and then spread it far across these new planets, it could work. Yeah, @Fian? Sure, some of the people might complain that Nepleslia's trying to go Yamatai, but then they can look at these people they've grown up with and find they can't complain overly much. Some firebrands will hate it. Some realists will see it as necessary for the survival of not just the nation, but the entire race.

My feeling here is that there's a way to keep this feeling Nepleslian while using some of the benefits Yamatai's main races award players.
 
I think the phrasing of the article needs some rework, and some exposition as to the culture of these "forced growth" children could help make the article work. I'll post more in a bit, but I'm not of the opinion that it's unsalvageable.

Just that in its current form, it paints Nepleslia somewhat more unfavorably than it needs to.
 
The only major downside to an Accelerated Nepleslian lack of skills and proficiency outside what would be considered part of the planetary culture, public education or boot camp if part of the army. For example if handball was the planetary sport in Planet X, then an Accelerated Nepleslian from Planet X would only know how to play handball if he knew any sport...
Click to expand...
I was re-reading the submission trying to figure out the best way to make it work when it occurred to me the real purpose of the submission wasn't what I thought it was the first time I read it. The real reason for this idea is clearly implied in the above quote: Nepleslia doesn't have much cultural variety. This submission is trying to solve that by building up subculture populations for each planet. Like if Nepleslia is Space-USA, Fian is making it possible for there be a Space-Georgians, Space-Texans, and Space-New Yorkers. I can respect that. One question that brings up is, if the programming chips in their heads are set for individual planetary cultures like the article says, doesn't that mean those cultures already exist in some form? And if Nepleslia has planetary subcultures already, isn't the mission of this submission already mostly accomplished?

Might a better way to go about this be saying "people who have moved to this planet tend to have X personality and culture because Y reasons" in the Character Creation Guide and create subcultures that way? You could have a set of cultural archetypes and examples.
 
In reference to the timeframe on this... Fian already clarified. It's a retcon for only one reason, and that's because making this anything but a retcon would make it useless for the forseeable future unless we go full neko-mode, and shorten the time to a year. The whole point of this is to give players a broader base to work with, and more variety, and giving them that 5 years from now doesn't matter much, tbh.
 
Wes said:
Also if Nepleslians are fiercely independent, shouldn't this program face widespread Nepleslian opposition? If you think about it, the program involves brainwashing in the literal sense, with these kids getting ten years of government-issue development programming from an implant and only half that--5 years--from their real parents.
Click to expand...
The use of the implant is part pro-independence in the sense that its contents is decided by the planetary goverment instead of the federal one (ala States Rights) which would allow for cultural uniformity across planets. Concerning the education times, other than the classes taking up a few hours each day, the child will be in the company of his or her parents at all times.

Doshii Jun said:
The program might face widespread opposition, but if it was done in secret — say, around the time of Nepleslia's independence — it's hard to really bitch about spilt milk.

Yes, it puts the program farther in the past if you time it that way, but if you shrink the population and then spread it far across these new planets, it could work. Yeah, @Fian? Sure, some of the people might complain that Nepleslia's trying to go Yamatai, but then they can look at these people they've grown up with and find they can't complain overly much. Some firebrands will hate it. Some realists will see it as necessary for the survival of not just the nation, but the entire race.

My feeling here is that there's a way to keep this feeling Nepleslian while using some of the benefits Yamatai's main races award players.
Click to expand...
More or less. Despite the desperation in the article, it is really just an IC device to enable this OOC world building. The main opposition to the old Yamataian racial policies stem from 'compulsary upgrades' and 'certain race only positions'. The YE30 AGP is entirely optional with no direct benefits for the parent. The only person I think would get pissed is the child as he/she might even be at a slight disadvantage from a normal one when fully grown.

Wes said:
I was re-reading the submission trying to figure out the best way to make it work when it occurred to me the real purpose of the submission wasn't what I thought it was the first time I read it. The real reason for this idea is clearly implied in the above quote: Nepleslia doesn't have much cultural variety. This submission is trying to solve that by building up subculture populations for each planet. Like if Nepleslia is Space-USA, Fian is making it possible for there be a Space-Georgians, Space-Texans, and Space-New Yorkers. I can respect that.
...
Might a better way to go about this be saying "people who have moved to this planet tend to have X personality and culture because Y reasons" in the Character Creation Guide and create subcultures that way? You could have a set of cultural archetypes and examples.
Click to expand...
Indeed but thats only half of it, the other half is to allow people to have grown up in ONLY that culture to be available as characters immediately. A person who has moved in from the core-worlds assuming they have spent all of their last years of childhood on the colonies would still only have spent 1/3rd of their lives in the colonies and the other 2/3rds in the old Nepleslia that I am trying to make a departure from.

Wes said:
One question that brings up is, if the programming chips in their heads are set for individual planetary cultures like the article says, doesn't that mean those cultures already exist in some form? And if Nepleslia has planetary subcultures already, isn't the mission of this submission already mostly accomplished?
Click to expand...
The planetary subculture and the plantary syllabus could be something that was developed over time alongside the first batch. While it is undeniable that a person's education partly influences his/her outlook and behavior, the other part is through interactions within the community and with the enviroment. Planetary enviroments in the colonies will vary greatly from old Nepleslia, and the community comprising of randomized individuals or known groups (The Kuznyetski for example) would be interacting between themselves throughout this time to produce a general culture suited to the circumstances.
 
I was asked to give my opinion about this article, and largely... I can't give one. This has to do with Nelpeslia, a setting I've never really been a part of. This has to do with eugenics, something I've never dealt with. And it also deals with the setting's canon, something I want to avoid muddling my hands with. So, while I think this might be a good way to filling out the rather empty planets in the Imperium, I'm abstaining from putting my vote into either box here.
 
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