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[Zen Arms] ZA-GIM-3 'Talon-2' Guided Missile

Arieg

Arieg

DEFCON Everybody Dies
Submission Type: Guided Missile
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=corp:zen:gim-3

Faction: Zen Armaments
FM Approved Yet? (Yes/No; Who, When) Yes - By Soresu over Skype
Faction requires art? (Yes/No) - Has Artz

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? (Yes/No) - Yes several new vehicle components, but mostly small scale and shouldn't be an issue to review here.
Contains New art? (Yes/No) - Missile!
Previously Submitted? (Yes/No; explain reason if rejected) - Nein.

Notes: Didn't feel like updating the Talon and wanted a new more capable system anyways.
 
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With all due respect, aren't the blast radii of the warheads just a tad ridiculous, given that according to this section of the Damage Rating guide Tier 10 starships (like corvettes and frigates) can only have a maximum length of 100 meters while Tier 12 starships can only have a maximum length of 500 meters?

I mean, why are we creating weapons that have 10 times the area of effect of their intended targets (with the exception of the Block-B; although its detonation radius is somewhat understandable given its purpose, the sheer amount of destructive potential it has is most certainly not), unless it's to create weapons that are purposefully intended to bypass the weaponry limitations?
 
FrostJaeger said:
With all due respect, aren't the blast radii of the warheads just a tad ridiculous, given that according to this section of the Damage Rating guide Tier 10 starships (like corvettes and frigates) can only have a maximum length of 100 meters while Tier 12 starships can only have a maximum length of 500 meters?
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These are targets that move anywhere between .3 to .4c or 30 to 40 percent of the speed of light, bare in mind thats between 90,000 to 119,900 kilometers per second. That is a very hard target to hit and thats if its a ship profile, now imagine a fighter moving at the same speeds with evasive maneuvers. The entire goal of a frag or blast warhead is to reduce the chance of a missile outright missing by covering a larger area at the cost of reduced kinetic energy on target. There is a reason virtually every missile system that chases fighters in the world today is mostly black fragmentation (except the brits.... because they like their laser guided SAMs). As far as the size of the spread again its SARP scale, if anything on the very low end compared to some other weapon systems floating around.

FrostJaeger said:
I mean, why are we creating weapons that have 10 times the area of effect of their intended targets (with the exception of the Block-B; although its detonation radius is somewhat understandable given its purpose, the sheer amount of destructive potential it has is most certainly not), unless it's to create weapons that are purposefully intended to bypass the weaponry limitations?
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Tbh there is no 'we' here, I'm about the only creator of missile systems on this site aside from those who've made micro and mini missiles. As far as the area of kill again.... space... velocity.... the numbers I put in there are still extremely low and more then reasonable by SARP standards. So if you want to throw another lowball attempt at accusing me of something I ask... is this weapon overpowered? No. Does it break SARP as we know it? No. Is there a article quality issue? No.
 
Arieg said:
These are targets that move anywhere between .3 to .4c or 30 to 40 percent of the speed of light, bare in mind thats between 90,000 to 119,900 kilometers per second. That is a very hard target to hit and thats if its a ship profile, now imagine a fighter moving at the same speeds with evasive maneuvers. The entire goal of a frag or blast warhead is to reduce the chance of a missile outright missing by covering a larger area at the cost of reduced kinetic energy on target. There is a reason virtually every missile system that chases fighters in the world today is mostly black fragmentation (except the brits.... because they like their laser guided SAMs). As far as the size of the spread again its SARP scale, if anything on the very low end compared to some other weapon systems floating around.
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A valid point, yes, but for one thing: 179,875 kilometers/second, the speed listed in the GIM-3's article converts to roughly sixty percent the speed of light - which renders the entire velocity-based argument kind of moot, seeing as how the missile can outrun (and, while it's ultimately up to the GMs, therefore have at least a chance of outmaneuvering) any starship currently used within the setting. Furthermore, do you, @Arieg, happen to know of any anti-fighter or anti-ship missile system currently in use today that features a multi-kilometer blast radius?

Arieg said:
Tbh there is no 'we' here, I'm about the only creator of missile systems on this site aside from those who've made micro and mini missiles. As far as the area of kill again.... space... velocity.... the numbers I put in there are still extremely low and more then reasonable by SARP standards. So if you want to throw another lowball attempt at accusing me of something I ask... is this weapon overpowered? No. Does it break SARP as we know it? No. Is there a article quality issue? No.
Click to expand...

Apart from the accusation in my first post - which I apologize for, due to it being unwarranted - how are my concerns over its potential for misuse "lowball," given the missile's speed and destructive potential?
 
The AIR-2 genie is an air to air missile with a multi kilometer kill zone.

But in all seriousness, just wait for an approval mod to show up. There is certainly a question of how fast is acceptable for missiles that hasn't been answered by the staff yet which means we either will need to get a ruling or remove the speed listing on the missile entirely as to sidestep that particular problem.
 
Having consulted with others regarding this, I withdraw all of my objections regarding the missile's damage, blast radius, and speed; furthermore, I apologize for any inconvenience I've caused @Arieg - as yesterday I discovered that I've been operating under some...mistaken assumptions regarding Nepleslian miniaturization capabilities.
 
Added an 'EXRM' package version of the missile along with the altered stats and visuals of said modifications.
 
Alright, if there aren't any objections, I'll go ahead and approve this in 3 days. If there's anything I missed or if there are concerns, please let me know.
 
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The armor rating of the device is Tier 7, but the missile is only large enough to qualify as Tier 5 or 6.

Missile speed should just say .6 c for consistency.

(I would also think that since this basically a full DRv3 vehicle, the warhead should be limited to the 8x tier equivalency but that's on you approval mods)
 
Quite honestly, missile size has very little to do with how powerful they are considering the setting. However, I do agree a speed of 0.6c would be much better. As for the DRv3, it's still something that's under debate, however, considering the pros and cons of missiles weigh each other out, I'll allow it for now. Should new rules come forward, it is acceptable to update this article at that time.
 
I'm not talking about the explosive power of the missile, I'm talking about how much damage the missile can take before being destroyed in which case size is the only thing that matters.

And this missile does not meet the size requirements for Tier 7. Why would this be Tier 7 when anything else of the same size would be Tier 5or6?
 
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