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OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion
- Thread starter Doshii Jun
- Start date
Lamb
Ovine Member
The reason why 60% is not enough to pass a restrictive law, in general, is that while 60% percent of a population may not support a crusade-- it is the nature of humans not to oppose something which at the end of the day will not effect them. Many members of these sixty percent, if they have realistic personalities, will just get in the newest body anyway, because they were ordered to. That doesn't mean they have a problem with people who don't want to hop into a new body.
Another interesting point to bring up is 'The Tyranny of The Majority'. A legislative system like the one used here is intended to prevent such tyranny. Without an overwhelming decision from the populace, the end result is normally a conflict between two political factions. The smaller faction would always lose, alienating a very large portion of the population, if it weren't for careful consideration of the desires of these people. Their outrage can spark more outrage in the moderate sector of voters who don't care which way the debate goes as long as no one gets hurt.
Simply put, 60% is enough to pass a law in a direct democracy, but such a weak turn-out is not enough to garauntee public favor.
Another interesting point to bring up is 'The Tyranny of The Majority'. A legislative system like the one used here is intended to prevent such tyranny. Without an overwhelming decision from the populace, the end result is normally a conflict between two political factions. The smaller faction would always lose, alienating a very large portion of the population, if it weren't for careful consideration of the desires of these people. Their outrage can spark more outrage in the moderate sector of voters who don't care which way the debate goes as long as no one gets hurt.
Simply put, 60% is enough to pass a law in a direct democracy, but such a weak turn-out is not enough to garauntee public favor.
Aendri
Inactive Member
And if 90% of your PCs disagree with something, is it really fair to the players for you to just drop in and say "welp, you're a minority, because the 99% of the population that I control on my own say so." This is a group run site, players are supposed to have input and be able to change things. If you're just going to immediately overrule groups of players, that very much so takes away from the desire that I, at least, have to continue in the faction. If you didn't want players to be able to represent portions of the populace in ways that you might not agree with, you shouldn't have put the Senate in place, and given us the ability to stand as senators.
Fred
Retired Staff
I'm thinking likewise. In the thread that had people complaining on the Nekovalkyrja Upgrade Order, you invited people to actually go to the Senate if they wanted to make a difference.
Now that people thinking likewise could actually put up a fight, you went and pretty much stonewalled the effort with old rulings that 'strangely' didn't apply when the Senate back was raising other rules on things that equally touched long-ago decrees. There's a name for that on the internet, Wes, and it's called "trolling".
Now that people thinking likewise could actually put up a fight, you went and pretty much stonewalled the effort with old rulings that 'strangely' didn't apply when the Senate back was raising other rules on things that equally touched long-ago decrees. There's a name for that on the internet, Wes, and it's called "trolling".
Fred
Retired Staff
Um, the Letter of Appeal vote didn't quite got passed the way this thread says it should have had.
We either needed to wait until monday, where the 6-3 voting results would result in the appeal passing. Or we needed one extra close in favor to motion to end.
This is probably not a problem, though, considering how the topic had slowed down, already seemed leaning in favor of the appeal, and that if we'd waited until Friday, it'd have passed on its own. Or Hanako, whom had not voted, could've provided the 7th vote to motion to close (which is likely closest to what actually happened).
We either needed to wait until monday, where the 6-3 voting results would result in the appeal passing. Or we needed one extra close in favor to motion to end.
This is probably not a problem, though, considering how the topic had slowed down, already seemed leaning in favor of the appeal, and that if we'd waited until Friday, it'd have passed on its own. Or Hanako, whom had not voted, could've provided the 7th vote to motion to close (which is likely closest to what actually happened).
Fred
Retired Staff
I know SANDRA gets to make news outline out of Senate results (like Reinholt getting tossed out for smoking). I expect they would make known the topic and outcome. It never was my impression, though, that the blow-by-blow of senate deliberations was transmitted.
Not outside of the nation, though. Especially not to nation that Yamatai is not in friendly relations with. I thought that private letter from Lorath High Priest Velor was a heap of metagaming bullcrap.
Not outside of the nation, though. Especially not to nation that Yamatai is not in friendly relations with. I thought that private letter from Lorath High Priest Velor was a heap of metagaming bullcrap.
I always assumed there was a C-SPAN equivalent where every moment of raw footage was viewable.
That might be so, but getting that signal light-years away is the trick. Unless the Lorath are siphoning the signal somehow that's broadcast across the Empire ...
Amaryllis
Inactive Member
I'd like to know who can participate in the senate without being a senator and how they can. This might sound weird but one reason I'd use to explain why I ask is if I recall correctly during the discussion on protecting AI that become fully aware or basically are human enough to be considered people Kotori's ship got to speak up or some artificial intelligence other than a Neko spoke. Maybe I'm wrong but I think we've had non senators speak before.
Since this is the future could there be a sugoi senate Twatter feed or something where citizens can send their messages and senators can choose whether to bring them to the attention of each other?
Could this manifest in non-senator citizens being able to post in some form like a sub thread to a thread?
Can we have lobbyists?
Can we have senate assistants who can present cases on behalf of their bosses?
I'd like to share my ideas without creating a senator while being able to have my own character take credit for them without having to use Lamb's senator as a sock puppet.
Also, are there more senate seats to choose from than the ones on the current list? The only ones I'm confident are free are the one for an Elysian sector and one for the Phodian sector.
Since this is the future could there be a sugoi senate Twatter feed or something where citizens can send their messages and senators can choose whether to bring them to the attention of each other?
Could this manifest in non-senator citizens being able to post in some form like a sub thread to a thread?
Can we have lobbyists?
Can we have senate assistants who can present cases on behalf of their bosses?
I'd like to share my ideas without creating a senator while being able to have my own character take credit for them without having to use Lamb's senator as a sock puppet.
Also, are there more senate seats to choose from than the ones on the current list? The only ones I'm confident are free are the one for an Elysian sector and one for the Phodian sector.
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Any settled Yamatai planet that doesn't have a senator can have one. So that's how you can get a senator.
As for having other folks enter into the discussions who aren't senators. I have to say I'm not that keen on it. Mainly because we have had some legislation get really mucked up by people who weren't invested insisting on changes and making said law nearly useless.
Won't oppose it, but we would also need to check the senate rules. The instance for the AI Laws, it was the MEGAMI from the Eucharis, Charisma
As for having other folks enter into the discussions who aren't senators. I have to say I'm not that keen on it. Mainly because we have had some legislation get really mucked up by people who weren't invested insisting on changes and making said law nearly useless.
Won't oppose it, but we would also need to check the senate rules. The instance for the AI Laws, it was the MEGAMI from the Eucharis, Charisma
Fred
Retired Staff
...if Kotori's ship ever spoke up at the senate (a fact I'm dubious about) it was likely when the tone of the Senate was different, before the current constitution was established. I do remember a 'everyone could contribute' period, it was definitely before the current format.
And I believe we moved on, because it didn't make for good roleplay/portrayal or something as a lessons learned. It'd likely be disingenuous to revert.
And I believe we moved on, because it didn't make for good roleplay/portrayal or something as a lessons learned. It'd likely be disingenuous to revert.
paladinrpg
Inactive Member
Oh, so you can make a senator for any planet with a settlement that doesn't already have one and post as a part of the discussions in the Senate? I don't suppose I could make someone from one of the UX frontier worlds (the ones connected by PAINT transit for instance) and participate?
paladinrpg
Inactive Member
Ah... hmm. Say, does Jiyuuian space have anyone representing it then? I know they were mostly resettled now, eh, so would probably need to reestablish representative government with Yamatai? 
Oh, that's a good point, Jiyuu does need a senator now, since many of the refugees are starting to move back home now that the situation has stabilized there. Their population has exceeded a million.
paladinrpg
Inactive Member
Yeah, though I am wondering how accurate the numbers on this listing of territories are now for the Yagumo cluster as a whole, after the war and resettlement?
