OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion

[Yoshi]

Can the Primer be still Active duty Star Army? also where would I find the Constitution? I think i might have my one Character that doesn't have a plot run. Her name is Tani Mako

 

[Fred]

x_x

Wait, why are we talking about having Yuumi replaced as Premier? Weren't the latest bills just to establish a mediator for the Senate debates?

 

[Nashoba]

Its not about replacing her, its a formality. The Constitution says " The Imperial Premier is an elected position with a five year term, with elections occurring on years ending in 0 or 5. "

Personally I would say that a simple motion a vote of confidence would settle the issue.

 

[Gamerofthegame]

Chiming in out of the blue, here; The wiki page is a bit out of date.

As I've graciously found out, Revolver has a Tatiana senator, for example. Formatting is also a bit weird.

Also of note, it seems Anisa, one of the core and Warmaster worlds, is senator-less, as well as a few of the other noteably populated worlds, such as Ohara. I don't know if this is purposeful, but I'd thought I'd bring these two things to your attention.

 

[Wes]

As far as I know, the page is fairly current. Senator players are responsible for updating it. The ones without senators are not on there because no one has come forward to claim them yet.

 

[Gamerofthegame]

Hm.

I'll pick up Asura, if you don't mind. I am aware Gallant is/will be fleshing that area out. Should be putting my hand in that pot soon enough, anyway. Not as my old senator, mind. She's still in prison. For whatever reason, I forget.

After I think I will push to do some minor book keeping here and there on the wiki, I think. Make the how-to-join obvious and various free positions etc.

Edit: <Wes> Okay, approved

 

[CadetNewb]

In the "Mandatory Upgrades" thread, there was some mention that last time there was a vote in regards to the Nekovalkyrja being SAoY property, there wasn't enough opposition against the notion. In all honesty, I don't look here often at all - it wasn't until I read that thread which made passing mention of it that the enormity of what the Senate of Yamatai is struck me upside the head. The realization was enlightening and also embarrassing for me, to realize that something so big and important in regards for decision making in the setting as right under my nose.

I'm basically fretting over the idea that we may have some problems.

1) Whether or not it proves true, there's this gut feeling in me that most players think that the Senate is merely some spot for Role Playing, rather than the place where the actual damn policies and such for the entire faction is decided.

2) Just how high is Senate Awareness among players in Yamatai?

3) Posting in the Senate is Daunting due to it's IC format. Not only does the various posts being done IC up the complexity in actually getting an opinion out, but how am I supposed to put out my OOC views when it's IC or Semi-IC? It seems to be a contradictory nightmare from my perspective.

4) The thread titled "How the Senate Works" should be sticked so it's at the very top, rather than sitting there at the bottom due to being the oldest post with no replies I think.

 

[raz]

how am I supposed to put out my OOC views when it's IC or Semi-IC? It seems to be a contradictory nightmare from my perspective.

You're just supposed. That's it. Don't feel too bad about bringing OOC meta in, though. Most people with senators seem to do it all day every day.

EDIT: As an addendum, this is really annoying. The last time we argued about Neko was supposed to settle it. It's only been a few months. Lose with dignity.

 

[Wes]

Not only does the various posts being done IC up the complexity in actually getting an opinion out, but how am I supposed to put out my OOC views when it's IC or Semi-IC? It seems to be a contradictory nightmare from my perspective.

Don't. The senate should be based on IC viewpoints only.

 

[Nashoba]

Case in point, Proposition 95 was decided in roughly four hours. Posted at 11:28 on Nov 10, 2012 and Passed at 3:35pm Not even enough time for others to sound off on it. The ruling said it passed 3-2-2 but curious enough, going through the thread I see no voting, one abstain and I count only 5 participants so why did it pass with seven votes made?

 

[CadetNewb]

You're just supposed. That's it. Don't feel too bad about bringing OOC meta in, though. Most people with senators seem to do it all day every day.

EDIT: As an addendum, this is really annoying. The last time we argued about Neko was supposed to settle it. It's only been a few months. Lose with dignity.

Don't. The senate should be based on IC viewpoints only.

Ugh! Conflicting answers! And I really do want to at least get my two cents into the senate, but I'm really unsure if I can - OOC is a huge issue, and I have things to say in OOC.

Case in point, Proposition 95 was decided in roughly four hours. Posted at 11:28 on Nov 10, 2012 and Passed at 3:35pm Not even enough time for others to sound off on it. The ruling said it passed 3-2-2 but curious enough, going through the thread I see no voting, one abstain and I count only 5 participants so why did it pass with seven votes made?

That's. That's not good. The "How the Senate Works" said it's supposed to be open for discussion and voting for 7 days!

And can we get that one stickied? I think it deserves that.

 

[raz]

Ugh! Conflicting answers! And I really do want to at least get my two cents into the senate, but I'm really unsure if I can - OOC is a huge issue, and I have things to say in OOC.

I was very clearly being sarcastic. Listen to Wes.

That's. That's not good. The "How the Senate Works" said it's supposed to be open for discussion and voting for 7 days!

And can we get that one stickied? I think it deserves that.

That bill was why the senate works the way it does now. The current rules are as a result of the conflict that occurred with both sides trying to close the bill very quickly without all players even being aware.

 

[CadetNewb]

I was very clearly being sarcastic. Listen to Wes.

That bill was why the senate works the way it does now. The current rules are as a result of the conflict that occurred with both sides trying to close the bill very quickly without all players even being aware.

But then how are we supposed to properly discuss the topic? There's an IC as well as an OOC perspective to these complex issues, and we're supposed to have half of the concerns and problems not be touched?

Also, if that bill was responsible for the 7 day rule, then shouldn't it be fair game since it's passing was underhanded? It seems fair to me, especially since the problem hasn't gone away.

 

[raz]

But then how are we supposed to properly discuss the topic? There's an IC as well as an OOC perspective to these complex issues, and we're supposed to have half of the concerns and problems not be touched?

Also, if that bill was responsible for the 7 day rule, then shouldn't it be fair game since it's passing was underhanded? It seems fair to me, especially since the problem hasn't gone away.

OOC issues should go in OOC threads and boards that concern the setting.

And though it was responsible for the seven day rule, the fact of the matter is that the bill still had more participation behind it than any since. I feel like that alone makes it a valid vote. Moreover, it's far less ethical just to allow retroactive changes to legislation due to new rules. Society dislikes ex post facto laws for a reason. That's just what I think, though.

 

[CadetNewb]

But having the IC and OOC factors separated like this makes it a lot more complex than it has to be - the actual decision making is being done IC in one thread, while the other half of the issue's discussion is being held in another and away from the decision making? That strikes me as absurd.

In regards to ex post facto though, the way I see it, it's not a government but a bunch of players that are having issues with their roleplay. It's important to at least have the discussion on the topic since it directly deals with the quality of RP here, and best to evaluate it it's doing the playerbase any good.

 

[raz]

How do you propose that we roleplay governments on Star Army, then? If you let OOC into the IC governance process, it is no longer roleplay. Should we just go back to only roleplaying the crews of ships on adventures? Moreover, RPing a senator is not a right for every player. It's something granted based on Wes' trust of how well we know his setting and his faction. We are allowed the responsibility and pleasure of roleplaying senators because we're supposed to be able to stay faithful to the setting when we take on that role. But I digress.

What you're talking about is inevitable and you bring up good points. We're not supposed to mix IC and OOC, but in reality we've got people using their flagship characters as senators. What do you think would be an ideal system?

 

[CadetNewb]

Honestly? I don't know.

Right now, I wish to have a say on the current issue where it actually will matter, the place where the decision making is actually done, but I simply can't even do that, even though this is a HUGE issue at hand. Simply because it all has to be done IC. What I have to say is a mixture of both IC and OOC in regards to how the two interact with one another, and even though the rules say it's supposed to be "Semi-IC", it doesn't look to be that and is all IC. Maybe it'd be better if here, and only here our characters are allowed to speak in OOC-Meta? It's a random idea I'm tossing around, since right now, I'm absolutely and utterly frustrated beyond measure.

Because right now? I feel I've been effectively gimped and completely cut out of this current topic. Rendered Mute.

 

[Fred]

It's simple. No ideal system. Just circumstances.

In the Mandatory Update thread, people saw firsthand a result that came from Bill 95 having been so hamhandedly brute-forced past us.
Wes did offer for the people interested to go dispute the bill in the Senate and change law if we didn't like it.
It was an invitation I took him up on. There was sufficient OoC/IC outrage to signify the outcome of Bill 95 was not actually what some people in the community wanted.
If it wasn't really wanted, then I and others have a chance to effect change, like it should have been in the past.
Also, as creator of the NH-29 race, I want my submission to be allowed to return to the way it it had been approved as, before Wes tampered with it.

As for CadetNewb? Man, just create a Senator for the occasion if you really do want to chip in.

 

[CadetNewb]

That's the problem though Fred - I can't chip in, even if I make a senator. A good portion of what I want to say is pretty much about the dynamics of IC and OOC interacting with one another to screw us over entirely. I don't think I am able to say any of it while staying IC!

 

[Zain Snowpaw]

Hmmm... As to the points of player awareness of the senate? While I was aware that it existed I had assumed that it was for members of the GM Caste or above. The only thing that actually brought this forum to my attention much was the posting in the latest debate. Really I think we need something about the dynamics of the senate in a new players guide or at least in the Yamatai Star Empire page. It adds an interesting dynamic but I think that more people would participate if they knew that it existed.

I would not be opposed to creating a senator of my own, in fact I'm rather fond of the idea. If possible I would like to create a representative from the Kilnar system. Looks like the wiki page for it could use a bit of work as well, and I'm happy to contribute to it. I think there's probably something more to be made out of a star system then a couple of hundred refugee complexes.

That's the problem though Fred - I can't chip in, even if I make a senator. A good portion of what I want to say is pretty much about the dynamics of IC and OOC interacting with one another to screw us over entirely. I don't think I am able to say any of it while staying IC!

The senate seems to be more fore debating on the actual IC laws of the RP. Perhaps your Ideas are more suited to the "Setting Discussions" forum. At least, thats where I'd go.