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NMX Forces Update

The thing is Fred, that's a proper portrayal of a Ripper you got there. Elsewhere, that may not be the case. The reason why I'm suggesting such a drastic change for it is to try and break it away from the old stigma it got from being improperly used by GMs in the past. If I include info on the Ripper article or elsewhere to clearly define what it's actually supposed to be, I'm worried it still won't shake free from that bad rap.

With the labels though, it's very blunt and direct in pointing out ways for them to be used. I get what you're saying, but so far, I'm not sure what alternate choices would work out. A general guide for the Mishhuvurthyar is needed, but my concern is that if it doesn't at least suggest ways in which they can be deployed by GMs - why the whole 'label' thing came about - there will be consistency problems. I've also said this again and again, and it's really frustrating to keep having to say this, but I'm not just going to push forward on an idea on my own. I'm fishing for ideas, and on this, if you got an alternate solution, I'd be really happy to at least hear it.

As for the DR, we already both agree it's a horrible system that needs to be fixed. But I've also said this to you before a well; it's not just people not making a move when the time comes. We're also of completely different opinions on how it should even be fixed, and can't come to an agreement on how. You had an idea, I have an idea, Kai had an idea, Exhack had an idea - I'm pretty sure it goes on.
 
Cadet, all damage ratings run into problems with massive objects. The biggest problem is that massive objects can lose parts of themselves without a catastrophic failure. A massive object does not really have a single damage value but is made out of many small blocks of damage values. Unless you're into Hollywood or anime, ships don't usually go "Kaboom!!" when killed unless you hit something really catastrophic like a magazine. Most of the time, they just burn and sink. In space, I guess that would be depressurize and lose power (derelict). That is hard to put into a numbers system. Below that, it still helps with "less than massive" objects.

Come to think of it, we actually do have something similar. When a player shoots someone in the leg, arm or head. So maybe ships could be made of discrete parts with their own damage value, any other part would be "non-essential" to the operation of the ship and can be lost without concern or at worst a minor nuisance (decompressed passageway/cabin etc).

As for the tweaking, I keep getting the feeling that you're not going to take no for an answer, no matter what others think.

Fred, I seem free this weekend, I can help, hit me. Er..put down that Impactor..
 
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Nightowl, that's honestly not the big issue at all, and has never been brought up in previous discussions. Plus, the proposed fix would just make things overly complex, which we're best off steering clear of. It's also starting to get off topic, so I'm not going to discuss DR further in this thread - if you want to open up another one on it specifically though, that'd be great.

With the NMX however, I'll assume you're focusing more on changes to the Reaper given your previous posts. The thing is, the changes I'm suggesting at this point are addressing very real problems. It's already been clearly pointed out that they ether don't have as much firepower, or they have too much due to the inventory of equipment available, and the 'third option' GMs can take are undesirable since it uses the SAoY's gear. Not only that, but the Mishhuvurthyar themselves need proper rifles to use as well; quad-wielding Impalers isn't going to do the job. It's four different weapons that need to be aimed, meaning they're that much more likely to miss.

Meanwhile, the argument you're making doesn't have enough good reasoning behind it to chose it over the alternative I'm suggesting. I've already shown us the firepower gap very clearly, which the new rifles are supposed to address. But to further go against your argument, the idea that the Reaper is more unique because they "prefer hard mounted weapons on their PA" isn't the case. Having hard mounted weapons as Backup is relatively standard across most designs. The Mindy, Daisy and Reaper all have some form of energy based submachine gun. So far, there is every reason to make new rifles for the Mishhuvurthyar and none to keep them as-is.

If I'm missing something, which is possible since it's a long thread, you're going to have to state it again. There really, honestly doesn't seem to be any reason to do as you're suggesting Nightowl.
 
Updated the cover page and to note I'm looking to create a new brainslave and nightmare lite mishhu variants.
 
Cadet, this is a story based play. The weapons give the effects you want to give it. The damage difference between a LASR and the shoulder mount of the Reaper is not so different that you have to end up writing different effects for them, and a Mishhuvurthyar's accuracy with multiple weapons, like weapon effects, are something you write out. I.e they are only as inaccurate as a GM wants them to be. Which in your case would probably be very inaccurate as you don't like the idea. Others can just as easily write that they are accurate.

I will use the same phrase you used. There really, honestly doesn't seem to be any reason to do as you suggest Cadet. (Only accepting "tech" solutions as the only solution when RP can cover it).
 
The problem with the argument you make though, is that if a GM wishes to use something other than just the wrist weapons or shoulder mounted weapon, they really do have no option or options less than ideal as I have pointed out before. Meanwhile, a GM is free to not use the rifle even if it's in the inventory.

That's why I consider that reasoning to not be enough.
 
@Fred - though it's been stated before that the Hybrids would not help the NMX due to their stated goals, would they consider lending their expertise and leadership if said goals were changed to something more favorable to their own agenda? Right now, the Mishhu have been beaten back not once, but twice, so the political upheaval for the Mishhu back home could be enough to shake things up a bit. I bring this up because Arieg is considering having a commission done for them. However, even though I would actually like to see it come to life like Melisson did, I am against that for pragmatic reasons; if it doesn't directly help in fixing up the NMX, it shouldn't be bothered with for the time being.

What do you think about it? And @Revolver , what are your thoughts on changing the goals of the NMX?
 
I think the NMX are mostly in a state were escalation is really the only way to logically proceed.

If you have an house infection by ants, you might stat by placing ants traps. If Ant traps don't work, you may consider calling in an exterminator. If the extyerminator cannot make the cut, you either call one you'd deem more competent, or you might consider the house a lost cause or put it on fire to get rid of said invasive colony.

There's a fraction of the Umbral, the ones whom manage the Mishhu warfront - the war council - whom have grown convinced - especially after Mefpralphra's (Melisson's) demise - that humanity is a rather harmful kind of galactic vermin. They aren't going to stop just because they consider their initial efforts stymied.

In fact, Wes has alluded that he considers the Star Army of Yamatai back to operating at full strength (I contest that, but I'm not the one taking these decisions). By the same veins the NMX themselves could very well be back to full strength too. They'd just be operating more cautiously - looking for weaknesses, planning, studying, restructurating in light of previous setbacks before renewing an offensive. The hybrids, considering they have brains and know how to use them, would not even come into contact with them. Secrecy is their best protection.

I think that it's a good thing that the Mishhu remain available - and on call - for any GM whom may want to make use of them... but I think they're in a good place now. I don't believe it's the time for a renewed Mishhu offensive (and I have long-term plans regarding the Umbral, so, I'm not exactly in a hurry). I'd also mention that the Heartbreaker plot seems about making contact with Uesu' exodus fleet and that there was the possibility that Uesu's fleet may be hostile to Yamatai. If it turns out being hostile, we might have a huge Yamataian civil war on our hands (Himiko's "imperial republic" vs. Uesu's "jingoistic imperium") - if that turns out being the case, we don't have much room for the Mishhu to show up and be a big thing again.

I'll take a Yamataian civil war before the Mishhu anyday.
 
My guess is that a renewed Mishhu offensive is the very LAST thing many Game Masters want. I can only speak for myself in the end however, and I definitely don't want another huge war with the Mishhu. Though escalation would be the most obvious outcome, that doesn't mean we're forced into just that direction. We can have the Mishhu come to a different conclusion; as long as the humans feel that they're at risk of extinction, they'll just fight harder. However, at the same time, so long as they have hope of survival - either in the form of victory or subjugation - a good portion would simply submit.

During Mass Effect 3, this was a topic discussed between EDI and Shepherd as well, where they pointed out that humans in Reaper concentration camps sometimes didn't fight back when they saw others who were still alive, and is why I bring it up. It would, overall, make the NMX more flexible for GMs to use.
 
I just thought I would chime in regarding the Heartbreaker's long term story elements Fred mentioned. I, too, would like to see a Yamataian civil war develop between the two factions (Empress vs former Emperor), as I think it would be very inspiring and engaging. However, considering the NMX and their goals, wouldn't that then be the perfect time to attack a weakened superpower and default "protector of humanity" for a renewed offensive? They could try to move in and seize the equipment of both of them lost in the chaos, or possibly use it to invent new things to fight upon observing Uesu's movements and innovations. This also could down the road be the lead-in to healing the schism in Yamatai when a new external threat shows up, the classic situation of a shared enemy leading to forced cooperation.

This is all very long term thinking of course...
 
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It's a possibility, though, forcing the two to reunite would be the last thing the NMX would want. If Yamatai does head for a civil war, they're most likely to make quick stabs rather than an all-out assault. That way, they can make sure neither side has an edge over another, yet not pose a grave enough threat that the two would merge. Keeping Yamatai bickering with itself, growing weaker and weaker would be idea for them, and I suspect it would also be ideal for the majority of GMs sitewide as well, as it would serve as an ample backdrop from which they can draw on whatever suits their plot's needs rather than being forced into one war or another.
 
So yea gonna fire this convo back up because I plan to return to this concept, though rather then a site wide threat it will probably be a moderately sized rogue group. Overall though it means a brand new faction set of gear and updated existing pieces (I'M LOOKING AT YOUR RAVAGER!). Discuss!
 
It's a bad idea, if we're discussing it. It's a running theme recently that people are stripping old factions for parts. I'd rather see the NMX be updated than some new faction based off of them, riding them for glory and boasting "our stuff iz newerz".

Pardon the rude tone, but I just don't see why we need to split them up. If you want to return to the idea, just update the NMX instead of make a "moderately-sized rogue group". The NMX were already rogues in their own sense, now they're splitting even more? They already weren't intended to return to power, last this had been discussed a few months ago... but if they're moderately sized and an upgrade from one of the most powerful factions in SARP history, then they're a site threat. Especially with some groups preparing to join the Kuvexian war. It wouldn't be logical IC for the NMX to not strike while the efforts are also on chasing down these aliens, so it would force a site war for some overzealous resurgence of the NMX.

If you want to fight NMX in your plot, then just fight them. You don't need a new faction of them with updated technology to fight a squid. Getting tired of always seeing "new new new" when the things we have honestly aren't terribly old nor in need of replacing.
 
As long as none of the ideas I've shared with various individuals about my own in-progress Mishhu dudes (which I can prove I shared in exacting detail) somehow make it into whatever you're doing, then I don't really mind insofar as having been previously involved with the NMX. Good luck!

Probably should finish the myriad other projects you're working on before taking on new stuff, though.
Legix said:
If you want to fight NMX in your plot, then just fight them. You don't need a new faction of them with updated technology to fight a squid. Getting tired of always seeing "new new new" when the things we have honestly aren't terribly old nor in need of replacing.
Click to expand...

This, along with Legix's other points, is pretty relevant. We don't really need an "NMX overhaul." The NMX and Mishhu in general have a ton of established stuff that's really great and still functions well in RP. And, since you don't really RP yourself or run anything, @Arieg, you'd do well to remember that. Updates for the sake of updates aren't always good. Just something to think about, I guess.
 
I personally don't see a problem with continuing with the NMX by offering updated equipment. It's not like a whole lot of Mishhu gear is all that fleshed out. I also wouldn't put it past the NMX to implement new tech/body/method of warfare and give it a spin. for instance, Arieg did some really great equipment artwork in the past, and so far as I know it's still not being used. Kind of a shame, really.

The NMX is still ruled by the council of Elders (Umbral Elders), which currently number in 10 individuals (was previously 12, 2 died). One of them, Reiaz, is the NMX "Yui-equivalent". Another is supposed to be involved as the Y.S.S. Junpu's end-antagonist. That leaves 8 free, any of which can count as a fleet commander that could go "I'm going to try something new".

I think that might help justify, and empower, any spur of creativity regarding the NMX. If someone spurs an initiative that positively adds to the NMX, then the effort will likely become emulated faction-wide. If not, then it'll likely remain constrained to that smaller fraction.
 
Arieg likes making things more than RP. I don't really see a problem with him only doing tech stuff if he finds it fun.

Making factions that don't get RP'd can be a problem, and I'd much rather see him making NMX stuff.
 
Fred said:
One of many examples of something in the NMX which is a stub rather than something truly fleshed out:
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=faction:mishhuvurthyar:nmx_cruiser

The NMX faction is filled with stub articles like this. Which is why I'd personally welcome the effort. Not to mention that the Star Army of Yamatai isn't exactly static, so, I don't see why the NMX would be.

I mean...
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=faction:mishhuvurthyar:organization
Wow, such detail.
Click to expand...
I still have all those weapon arts and ship models floating about from my last effort, only now I can actually use a decent adversary, though I need a request... since I plan to have these guys play around with infestation and genetic modifications to their own kin. Would you permit me to use an SMX character?
 
SMX? Not NMX?

Is there a reason for the preference?

I'm not sure how I exactly stand on the Mishhuvurthyar, to be honest. I was the SMX FM. While I was finishing the Miharu plot I was still using old Mishhu stuff rather than the newer NMX. Now, I'm mostly the guy that knows the most about the Mishhu progenitor race, so I can run quality-control on a lot of related things (people actually consulted me fairly recently) but Wes and I often have a different take on the Mishhuvurthyar which makes me hesitant to be the person that ultimately gives permissions.
 
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