OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion

[Fred]

But-but... the pun!

I just wanted to make the pun. T_T

 

[raz]

Oh, you were talking about AJ's post. I didn't get it because I don't care. But good pun with context, my dude.

 

[paladinrpg]

I do agree it does seem strange that suzerains get actual voting seats? They should just have observational, non-voting powers only. The player can always pick another actual Yamataian world that needs a rep too...

Also... proud to be rabble-rousing in Jiyuu thank you. Might even be seeing something from our sector soon on the floor, if certain things unfold!

 

[Ira]

I'd not mind manning a senator from Anisa.

 

[Kim]

I am concerned that this issue did not come up until just now. Elysia has always had representation in the Senate. So it would make the most sense for both Elysia and Asteria to have a single Ambassador or delegate to represent their systems rather than each system have an individual representative.

 

[Ametheliana]

Before anybody jumps on the Elven Senator wagon, I would like Sachiko to be the one to fill that seat if she doesn't get the premier spot. I think @Wes should explain the voting process that will be utilized this year for the premier spot.

 

[Kim]

This again brings up the suzerainty representation question. The Elves have never had a senator before now, I would assume that they fell under the Yamatai representative in the past being located in a gated province on Yamatai. I am all for everyone getting representation in the senate, even if it is only 1 seat. This year we seem to have more independent states in play, so it honestly hasn't been an issue until now.

Elysia has always had a seat but the person playing their senator has not been incredibly vocal in all the years that I have been a part of the Senate RP. I am also noticing this trend as I am reading through these proposal history logs. This is a great opportunity for Frost or any of his players to make this the year Elysia gets awesome representation and a actual voice in the senate! So I would rather that all the suzerainties get some sort of representation in the senate and at this year's IRC.

I know that I am seeing some laws that need new wording that I will have Sora propose when I get through adding these to the wiki in the next few days.

 

[Ethereal]

If you guys need some advice about how situations like this run in an IRL scenario, I can help out if you wish.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all autonomous of the central English government to differing degrees with their own political assemblies (I.E. senates). I can provide some advice about how they're represented in the Houses of Parliament or something? That's a close parallel to Yamatai's senate.

It's a pretty similar situation from what I can tell.

Edit:
I'm putting my name down for Virginia while I'm here. I've already thought of some nice plans surrounding their refugees etc.

 

[Kim]

Go for it, Ethereal. Everyone is welcome to the table and there also lots of senate seats open for people that want to politic/build systems, just ask Wes for an unrepresented system.

 

[raz]

The only time people are interested in RPing in the Yamataian Senate is when they've got an opportunity to mess with the faction. It's been happening for over 10 years, so I guess it's par for the course.

 

[Kim]

Perhaps, once I get all the laws and proposals to the wiki it’ll make it easier to play this plot again and help us keep the numbering system straight. I had a lot of fun when get got into those IC debates, and it’s also nice seeing new proposals from other people besides Hanako and Yui all the time.

Maybe after the election we can designate that debate moderator/admin person you got written into law, Raz. It was a good proposal, we just never followed up on it.

 

[CadetNewb]

The only time people are interested in RPing in the Yamataian Senate is when they've got an opportunity to mess with the faction. It's been happening for over 10 years, so I guess it's par for the course.

That's a rather cynical and rude way to view things Raz. I would rather be optimistic and think that Yamatai's own players would like to play a role in governance, especially since some interesting roleplay has sprung up in the past from this. Take the Nekovalkyrja Species Act for an example; it sought to grant Neko rights like any other sentient and sapient person, rather than simply be military property. Though it was struck down, the resulting unrest was apparently bad enough that the Empress passed it anyways.

I think Kotori even said something to the effect of "the senate deserves to be burned down" in-character; I personally find the mental image of Kotori dressed as a revolutionary and crossing a river in winter amusing.

 

[Legix]

After discussion with Bullroarer I deleted my previous message. Instead of Kotoku I would like to claim Gashmere.

For the moment, I'd actually like to ask that the Gashmere seat remain empty/untended. Part of this is due to my plot's coming focus and my content push to flesh out the Kodian Civil War. Kodian presence in Yamataian affairs would have very likely dipped to minimal, as their own personal issues warrant a lack of political stability to properly establish a proper Senator (in my personal belief).

I'd like @Wes to chime in, but hope that @ArsenicJohn understands my point in this. Beyond asking, there's little much I can do to stop people from picking up the Kodians as well. I only want their civil disarray to further push their current isolation as the conflict draws in to make the spout the Shinpi takes there to show and get some solid work done within the so-far-unused civil war. That said, I'm outta dis Yamatai thread. You guys can panda-r on and do this whole government thing. If you do me the solid, I'll lay the groundwork for someone to either create a "hero" of the war to rise as a senator or end up creating an NPC to do so if the interest isn't carried to fruition by someone like AJ.

So hopefully you peeps can not fight and junk over this. It seems a lot like this sort of RP type has failed consistently in the past, with most people not doing these boring jobs, but getting the chance to help facilitate it and keep my image for Shinpi's story-run straight seemed like a good reason to blap in.

Edit

I'd not mind manning a senator from Anisa.

Now this... I actually would prefer not to happen for similar reasons. I'd not seen it, but this is a world I personally want. Unlike Gashmere, which I intend to only visit and flesh out (which is why I'm willing to flex on it), I plan to center one of my plots entirely around Anisa. While I'd rather not have to do it, I'd prefer to control a Senator for Anisa rather than have to work with someone I've had problems getting along with in the past. This is the most simple and respectful way I can put it, as I genuinely would not want to be pushed into further issues of disagreement when I'm already handling a plot on Anisa. So I guess this is me asking @Wes if it'd be fine if I could reserve the Senator role on Anisa, although I would rather it not be seated in a similar instance.

I just don't want to potentially face leaping through hoops just to RP the plot I've had set-up/readying for some time on Anisa, all for the sake of someone coming in with a Senator (which is a pretty important position on a world with SAINT activity).

Smol Edit #2: When I say unseated, it should be obvious I just want it to not be a player-controlled NPC. The roles obviously still exist, but I want them to have no one directing them/their neutral state allowing those with a plot to handle them versus someone who isn't connected (for example) being able to control the Senator + the planet in trickle-down.

 

[raz]

Just to avoid more of a headache in the future, since this is shaping up to be a deal: I would like first right of refusal to be Tatiana's senator due to the fact I play the governor of that planet and don't want to worry about arguing with a would-be senate player who says I don't anymore. I would, of course, give up the Tami seat in this case.

Would rather just stay Tami senator since I like the character, but yeah. Better to request the contingency now than ask a claimant to give it up.

Kinda wish Senate was just RP and had no practical power (kind of doesn't because the Empress' veto, but that's reactive and doesn't stop people from going buck wild in the first place) since Wes is the FM.

 

[paladinrpg]

That's a rather cynical and rude way to view things Raz. I would rather be optimistic and think that Yamatai's own players would like to play a role in governance, especially since some interesting roleplay has sprung up in the past from this.

This was pretty much my real reason for making a Senator, as I wanted to be able to have an influence on the faction's direction because I actually personally cared about Yamatai and rebuilding Yugumo cluster worlds. I didn't have any axes to grind against anyone in particular back when we tried the DATASS re-ratification for example, it was simply me as a player trying to do the right thing for universal peace among the big 3 and do it in a fashion that was open and spurred RP, rather than hide it behind a lot of closed-door meta/OOC arguments.

Granted, the system is not for everybody and has been abused in the past, but it still is worthwhile and this upcoming debate over suzerains/autonomous regions/peoples is a great excuse to make Senate relevant again for those that want to participate in this type of roleplay.

 

[ArsenicJohn]

I won't stop you from doing RP in Gashmere @Legix, if that's your concern. My Kodian Captain of the Baba Yaga has always intended to return to Gashmere, and I had planned to do so after our third chapter is finished. Also, I think that even with a civil war going on, the legitimate government (pro-Yamatai side) is probably still going to have someone representing them in the Senate. If I'm playing the Senator I would just ask you to update me on what happened in your plot so I can add it to the history.

 

[Legix]

I won't stop you from doing RP in Gashmere @Legix, if that's your concern. My Kodian Captain of the Baba Yaga has always intended to return to Gashmere, and I had planned to do so after our third chapter is finished. Also, I think that even with a civil war going on, the legitimate government (pro-Yamatai side) is probably still going to have someone representing them in the Senate. If I'm playing the Senator I would just ask you to update me on what happened in your plot so I can add it to the history.

This is why I was at least open to the idea: the Kodian senator COULD have an impact on the Civil War scene, which is where my preference for no PC to be in place stemmed from. I'd been building an image for how I wanted to run the civil war out (hence my creation of the Heian and planning to make a big push into it with Shinpi since way back when I inserted the Kodian arms dealer in its original thread). In contrast to Anisa (which I could well be on the entire span of SINS of Anisa), I figure that my presence on Gashmere won't be something questionable to someone who intends to only carry out the political end of work there within Yamatai. Part of this is also the fact I'm sure that for the most part, you wouldn't interfere in my plans with trying to noose my options (Kuvexian presence on Anisa could somehow be gas-lighted, which is why I spoke more strongly against that and do not feel a middle can be reached).

I'm open to working on a way to get a Gashmere senator, so long as my RP doesn't get sacrificed for this one, especially given the spotty track record of the Senate RP to make me skeptical. But I'm trying to do more than just go "no", so please understand why I still asked for Wes' thoughts. As I said: I do not believe Gashmere stable enough nor united enough to have even a Senator picked out from the Pro-Yamatai faction. My plot, and the Heian, was intended to focus on the escalation and a significant rise in conflict/shifting of power in a conflict that has remained so far locked in a stalemate.

TLDR: I still would like Wes to speak, though I will reiterate I'm at least open to it as long as I'm allowed to still run my plot unhindered. I've been preparing and working for months to get my notes and things ready, and my only concern with Gashmere is simply that all of it could go up in smoke if you were to try and veto me with some Senator role (which, while ICly has power, would violate my OOC rights and hinder a plot with multiple members who have been getting shaped up for months).

 

[Wes]

Suzerains don't have any voting powers in the senate. They're basically treated like "other countries, which we own" instead of "parts of the YSE." I would love for them to eventually become fully integrated into Yamatai someday in the future but we're not there.

 

[Ira]

Like I said I’d not mind voting from Anisa! Because I got the art for it!

 

[FrostJaeger]

Like I said I’d not mind voting from Anisa!

Based upon what he said here, I'm fairly certain @Legix would mind, @Ira.