Approved Submission Border Guards

[Ethereal]

Submission RP Example

https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/threads/saso-split.69108/

Submission URL

https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=stararmy:occupations:border_guard

Submission Faction(s)

1. Yamatai (except Elysia)

Submission Terms

1. I agree

Part 2 of the Ranger restructure. Turning the Garrison Regiment into a proper MOS with its own page, separate from the others and designated to Fourth Fleet.

Therefore, also doing my job as manager of Fourth Fleet insofar as border protection being a key part of their duties.

Two birds with one stone in this case.

 

[Andrew]

Would a MOS be limited to a certain fleet? Just since there are other fleets that handle border protection. Just something to think about?

 

[Ethereal]

I wasn't aware of other Fleets that ran border garrisons but if there are some, their ship compliment would probably be this MOS too! Any examples come to mind?

 

[Andrew]

The Tenth used to before they were destroyed, the First Expeditionary Fleet has temporarily taken up the job of keeping border garrisons up in the Motoyoshi Colonial Sector.

 

[Ethereal]

Oh. I was under the impression that 4F watched all the borders because it helps so much with keeping the ships of the other Fleets' on missions, that would otherwise be tied up in very static roles at the borders. What's the purpose of 1XF taking that on themselves? I would have thought expeditionary crews wouldn't be happy or equipped to be sat in one System for months or years at a time. That's kind of why 4F make sure to use old craft and are mostly staffed with this MOS, rather than using the best ships and science crews in the navy

 

[Andrew]

It was temporary during the war and during their re-establishment. (It was also part of their orders) It took time for the 1XF to build ships etc so it gave them a purpose and a way to contribute until the fleet was up to strength and started its current string of liberations.. They were doing operations liberating worlds (Tange, Miyamae, etc) plus it is where their home fortress is. But, no worries. Pretend I said nothing. 1XF will be taking on new things under Akina.

 

[Ethereal]

I gotcha, that makes a lot of sense with that context. In any case, the change of Fleets to having strategic specialties was after that time anyways I believe. In regards to the original point, if things change with Fleets in future I can see this MOS becoming more widespread.

In fact, if there's any points of interest like wormholes or interuniversal portals, maybe a ship with these guards might be useful to have to keep watch on that kind of thing, even though it's not under 4F's border duties and under the local Fleet.

 

[Andrew]

Just a few more comments and observations:

• Still not sure why the Star Army needs a border guard MOS. This seems more like bloat that could just be qualifiers in existing MOS
• Think maybe this would be a good chance to differentiate the 4th "patroling" border regions, and border garrison/guarding, For some reason I'd rather see this as an expansion of the Department of Immigration @Wes will let the boss man chime in on that idea.
• For now pending further discussion with Yamatai FMs, etc I can't put my FM stamp on this.

 

[Wes]

Currently border security is the role of the Star Army's smaller civilian cousin, the (not that well detailed) Yamatai Security Agency.

 

[Ethereal]

It was my understanding the the YSA was essentially immigrations and customs as per their article - on stations. If they do intercepts on civilian vessels that might be smuggling items in, I guess that makes sense, but it's a very big mandate to shoulder onto a civilian agency like that if they're also going to be doubling as a paramilitary. Especially if they get into scuffles with armed vessels they'll be calling the SAOY a lot. In this universe, you can imagine everyone and their gran having heavy energy weapons, especially criminals.

This MOS isn't focusing on customs patrols and things in any case, that's not what I had in mind. It's for early warning and garrisoning from pirates or national attacks, then being able to fight for long enough for a proper response to arrive. For that kind of thing, you definitely need a military craft. A SAOY craft. Difficulty being that currently there isn't much like that (except it being 4th Fleet's mandate).

The skills required for that job are very unique. Not many other ships or bases do anything similar to what these ships would be doing. It requires a certain training to do, and given it's a full time role, that makes it its own MOS.

Rather than building thousands of new ships to garrison all the border systems, which in all likelihood won't be doing much or seeing much action, it would be a waste of money and only serve to have ships essentially mothballed floating around the same system until something big happens or they reach the end of their service period without having seen an actual real battle.

By instead using vessels that are almost outside of their service life, or are beyond their service life, this would save a lot of money while still having ships that were fit for this kind of role. However, that poses its own challenges. Older ships are more likely to break down, for example. You're more likely to have to go for an extended period of time without the usual luxuries because they're all non-mission-critical and might be out of order.

Not only that, you might be doing very little with your time other than waiting and patrolling, rather than getting out amongst the stars. This requires training in mental resilience and a certain very robust mindset (think submariners of the present day). Additionally, in terms of combat, if anything big encroaches on their system, these crew are going to need special training for that.

Unlike regular Fleet personnel, who can expect a sizeable presence to be very close at hand, these ships are alone in their systems for the most part. They're going to be fighting defensively against superior enemy presence, falling back while delaying the enemy best they can. Buying time for a supporting Fleet to arrive. Very different to standard space combat - both ship and PA wise.

However tough and specialist that sounds, you do need some eyes and force on-site in these places so that they can report and delay on encroachment. And support any civilian ships in the area who may need help.

Sorry for the big post.

 

[Locked_0ut]

sounds like the submarine crews of the SAoY in terms of what the life style is like

 

[demibear]

This could easily be a division of ex-rangers/trained by said ex-rangers working for YSA. They could use some expansion of their lore.

 

[Locked_0ut]

This could easily be a division of ex-rangers/trained by said ex-rangers working for YSA. They could use some expansion of their lore.

Sounds like they're the high speed paramilitary types that support the standard agents. Hostage Rescue Team to the FBI

 

[Ethereal]

This could easily be a division of ex-rangers/trained by said ex-rangers working for YSA. They could use some expansion of their lore.

I mean, sure, but their primary purpose is to prevent against armed incursions and garrison systems (like submarines) for long periods of time.

I don't know if a civilian agency has that kind of mandate. Maybe it does, but they'd have to essentially be soldiers anyway.

 

[Andrew]

SAoY MOS Expansion Discussion

I think because we have pending in the NTSE : New Submission - Rikugun Rangers New Submission - Border Guards New Submission - Fleet Scouts We've come to a standstill, and as the reviewer, I feel this isn't a choice I can singularly make. So I think Yamatai's FMS, especially @Wes , @Yuuki ...

stararmy.com

 

[Andrew]

Just a few things here:

1. I'm having trouble finding where Star Army Command/Taisho Yui ordered the Forth Fleet to become focused on border patrol. A strange designation for a fleet that has a territory to manage like all the other standard fleets. - Can you show me? @Wes @Ethereal
2. Please remove the phrase "There are no prerequisites for this occupation. "
3. I still see an issue with this overlapping with the YSA's mandate. As Demi said, I think I'd rather see the YSA's mandate lore expanded than see it land as a MOS in the Star Army. A MOS solely exists in one fleet, a fleet that has no active plots so therefore no players would be in this MOS.

Hello! Let's see if this submission meets the requirements for inclusion in Star Army's lore...

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I think this one still requires more discussions and decisions.

 

[Soban]

I'm having trouble finding where Star Army Command/Taisho Yui ordered the Forth Fleet to become focused on border patrol.

So my understanding of the current situation is that each fleet has both a area of responsibility and something else they do. First fleet has Main Operations as the largest fleet, Second fleet has Strategic Deterrence, Third fleet has maintaining the reserve, fourth has border patrol, fifth is planetary invasion, seventh has Emergancy/Rapid response, First Expeditionary and Second Expeditionary have long range exploration, and Fifth Expeditionary has Colonial security.

 

[Wes]

I would say it might be more correct to put 4th Fleet as "Frontier Patrol" rather than border patrol. Border Patrol is the responsibility of the civilian government (unless it's a military invasion or something) and the Yamatai Security Agency, which is the YSE's CBP/TSA/FBI equivalent and has its own fleet of starships. It's not very detailed unfortunately. I would love this MOS to be the first YSA MOS but the article seems focused on the 4th Fleet and would need an overhaul that I'm not sure I want to ask for. This is tough one...

 

[Andrew]

So my understanding of the current situation is that each fleet has both a area of responsibility and something else they do. First fleet has Main Operations as the largest fleet, Second fleet has Strategic Deterrence, Third fleet has maintaining the reserve, fourth has border patrol, fifth is planetary invasion, seventh has Emergancy/Rapid response, First Expeditionary and Second Expeditionary have long range exploration, and Fifth Expeditionary has Colonial security.

I'm aware of this thanks.

I would say it might be more correct to put 4th Fleet as "Frontier Patrol" rather than border patrol. Border Patrol is the responsibility of the civilian government (unless it's a military invasion or something) and the Yamatai Security Agency, which is the YSE's CBP/TSA/FBI equivalent and has its own fleet of starships. It's not very detailed unfortunately. I would love this MOS to be the first YSA MOS but the article seems focused on the 4th Fleet and would need an overhaul that I'm not sure I want to ask for. This is tough one...

Thank you for clarification on this, I am unsure of what path to take here as well. So for now leaving this as needs more discussion. I like the suggestion of this being the first YSA MOS too.

 

[Ethereal]

I was chatting with some people about this today and a good analogy came up that should help clear up the above blocker.

A good way to look at Border Guards vs the YSA is this:

• Border Guards are like the Coastguard, whereas the YSA is like the TSA.
• The YSA's article only mentions them "maintaining security in and around space ports and stations" and only mentions ships in the context of patrols immediately around star ports.
• Fourth Fleet / Border Guards are mostly there as early threat detection and delay against actual armed incursions into Yamatai, kind of like what I understand happens to the US Coastguard in times of war. They aren't really there to marshal trade or do anything other than Star Army duties.

Depending on whether the YSA is also supposed to be the equivalent of US Customs and Border Patrol, as well as the TSA, it may be possible that they liaise with Fourth Fleet / Border Guards to do enforcement tasks outside of starports, but that's a question to Wes of whether we have a US Customs and Border Patrol in setting currently or not.

If the name "Border Guards" to the American reader invokes thoughts of the US Customs and Border Patrol, I can change it to something more fitting, if there are any suggestions.