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Rejected Submission C9 'Pine Class Optionally Manned Warship'

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Zack

Inactive Member
Submission URL
https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=wip:faction:uso:c9
Submission Type: Starship
Template Used: Starship
Submission WIP URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:uso:c9
Submission Destination URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=faction:uso:c9

Faction: USO
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Yes
In addition to the articles up for approval elsewhere as part of the: C8: https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/index.php?threads/c8.62053/ and U7 : https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/index.php?threads/u7b-command-craft.62173/ There are:
- https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:uso:c4_interstellar_jet
- https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:uso:sutafaia_defense_system
- https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:uso:c9shivaturret
- https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:uso:c9verticallaunchcell

Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? No

Notes: Hi Ame
 
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I figured it out, I did not realize that I could unlock a locked thread.

Due to the approval of the RUDAAS Missile Container the 24 Vertical Launch Cells requires reclassification as a tier 13 weapon due to the ordinance it can now launch. Each one will only be counted as a single missile launcher. @FrostJaeger frosting am not good with the math, can you please confirm for me how this change affects the submissions standing with the WepLim?
 
If your unapproving this approved article then I’d request you also remove approval for every starship that can hold huge size cargo containers in every faction.

@Wes can I get you to step in here?
 
Thank you Alex and Frost. Now that we can see where we are this will help us see where to go. I have only a few ideas but the better of them is to combine all of these VLCs into just one big missile launching platform built from smaller parts. Missile containers loaded into launch cells that are all constructed into one huge weapon system. @FrostJaeger could you help us visualize this with the calculator, please?

@Zack, I missed your request. I apologize. Your request is denied.
 
I'm a bit confused, @Rizzo - you want me to display what the C9's weapon score would be if all of the VLCs were treated as a single weapon system?

Edit: Also, check your Discord DMs - I sent you a link to the DRv3 calculator.
 
Yes, sir. That is correct. It may require a new submission but that would only be for a single component made of components. It is as accommodating as we can possibly be without breaking rules.
 

Today Frost has taugh a man to fish. I think that this could be the solution to the issue. What we could use is ideas as to how to achieve it.
 
The problem with combining all the VLCs into one is that by doing that you are treating the VLC as a weapon which launches weapons. A single weapon launching 24 other weapons which then launch 2 missiles each. This still creates the problem of people bypassing the weapons limitations by launching weapons out of a launcher instead of missiles out of a launcher.
 
Perhaps the different way of looking at it can show that it's not inherently different. Consider:
1 weapon that fires 48 Tier 13 missiles counts as a single tier 13 weapon.
1 amalgamation of VLCs loaded with missile containers with a total of 48 missiles would be no different.

In both scenarios there is no difference. However he chooses to launch the 48 missiles will not change the fact that it is now a part of a larger assembly. Due to the obsolescence of missiles in the setting it still doesn't make a huge difference. Most missiles will not penetrate point defense.
 
It is absolutely inherently different because under the rules the VLC is not a missile weapon. What *IS* a missile weapon is the container that the missiles are in, because after they are deployed they are what fires the missile. These need to be counted as the rules dictate, and according to the rules
For missile launchers (like the Mini-Missile Launcher Pod): each “launcher” is counted as a single weapon system, regardless of how many missiles it can carry or launch simultaneously.
Click to expand...

The Vertical Launch Cells cannot be considered to be a missile weapon because they do not launch missiles. That means that it is not permitted to use the VLC to clump the missile containers together as a weapon.

The missile containers however, are weapons. Each one of them is treated the same way as a mini missile launcher, rated at its most damaging payload's tier rating. They are counted individually towards the weapons limitations.
 
You make a good point about the status of the current write-up. It would seem like an update is in order.
When the original VLC page was written there was no weapon on the wiki that could be fired from it. That has changed, and thus the VLC now requires a tier 13 rating as well unless there is a specific, mechanical reason that its application could not be weaponized.

I do not believe the whole "guns kill people" mentality. People kill people and I apply that concept to this submission.
If Uso pushes a container into space from a not-weapon and the weapons inside that container launch out and track someone down and blow them up it is not the missile that killed him, nor is it the container that killed him, nor is it the VLC that killed him. It is Uso that killed someone. Thus, the VLC was weaponized and must be treated as a weapon.

In short, it wasn't a weapon at first but it is a weapon now. It needs a damage rating. @Zack, could you please add the Tier 13 DR to the VLC page?
 
But my question is, are you now treating the missile containers as missiles, or as weapons in and of themselves?
 
The word weapon is defined as a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage. While the VLC is apparently not designed specifically to be a weapon it is going to be used as such. It is specifically designed to Launch containers into space. The reason why it won't matter what we classify the container as is because the damage never changes. It will be tier 13 damage per missile upon a hit. The weapon is the initial launcher, the vehicle is the container, and the munition is the missiles Warhead
 
I think that both of them are ignoring any criticism in any submissions right now, as is evident by the lack of changes in the USO fleet budget to fall in line with the rules.
 
Okay guys, we need to see some effort on this. I move to begin the 3 day rejection timer, if another mod agrees.
 
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