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Rejected Submission Daedalus Cannon

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Did you miss me trying to nerf that gun a while back, because it is in fact OP as all get out? I wasn't even the one who approve the Izanagi. Heck, when was it even mentioned in this thread?
 
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Now now, let's not ACTUALLY go off-topic here. This is supposed to be about the Daedalus cannon, not the Izanagi.
 
The point I'm making with the Izanagi is that many ships in this setting can sink themselves in under a minute or sink huge numbers of ships just as quickly. If you want to convince someone you're going to need a little more than "It seems OP, lower the fire rate"
 
Syaoran said:
you're going to need a little more than "It seems OP, lower the fire rate"
Click to expand...

I've given Rascaldees his options for going forwards. As it stands, this gun is not approvable for several reasons. The first of these is the issues with damage. The damage of this weapon somehow does roughly similar amounts of damage to an Eikan class cruiser firing its main weapon, and does so twice every second. It does this with what is currently only a 120x500mm round.

This doesn't make much sense, as that's about the size of a tank round, is the same mass as the 300mm round fired by the Chikai's w3900 mass launcher, and travels at the same velocity as that round, meaning that with the round it currently fires there is no reason for it to be doing more damage than the w3900's solid shot.

The second reason is linked to the first. This weapon has a firing rate that is extremely high, enabling it to dish out about far more damage than its contemporaries within the same tier. For example in the time it would take a chikai class to fire and then recharge its main gun of the same tier once, the Daedalus cannon could have fired twenty times, doing the twenty times amount of damage.

Let us apply the same example to something like an Eikan class' main weapon, which is rated at tier 14. We don't know exactly how many RPM it fires, but given that it's doing more damage than the Plumeria 2E's main weapon, I'd say it's probably firing around 3 RPM. That means that when firing armor piercing, which has the exact same rate of fire as the normal shots, but does more damage, the Daedalus cannon can fire about 40 times (And do 40 times the amount of damage) in the same time it takes the Eikan or super Eikan to fire its main gun once.

This clearly shows that given both the current rate of fire and the current damage, that this submission is unbalanced and is, in fact, better than everyone else's stuff. As per the guide to reviewing submissions, that is one of the things that submitters are instructed to turn down.

I've suggested a couple of ways for Rascal to make this approvable and even tried to help out by fixing some of the broken links, but that's the extent of what I can really do at this juncture.
 
Alex Hart said:
I've given Rascaldees his options for going forwards. As it stands, this gun is not approvable for several reasons. The first of these is the issues with damage. The damage of this weapon somehow does roughly similar amounts of damage to an Eikan class cruiser firing its main weapon, and does so twice every second. It does this with what is currently only a 120x500mm round.

This doesn't make much sense, as that's about the size of a tank round, is the same mass as the 300mm round fired by the Chikai's w3900 mass launcher, and travels at the same velocity as that round, meaning that with the round it currently fires there is no reason for it to be doing more damage than the w3900's solid shot.

The second reason is linked to the first. This weapon has a firing rate that is extremely high, enabling it to dish out about far more damage than its contemporaries within the same tier. For example in the time it would take a chikai class to fire and then recharge its main gun of the same tier once, the Daedalus cannon could have fired twenty times, doing the twenty times amount of damage.

Let us apply the same example to something like an Eikan class' main weapon, which is rated at tier 14. We don't know exactly how many RPM it fires, but given that it's doing more damage than the Plumeria 2E's main weapon, I'd say it's probably firing around 3 RPM. That means that when firing armor piercing, which has the exact same rate of fire as the normal shots, but does more damage, the Daedalus cannon can fire about 40 times (And do 40 times the amount of damage) in the same time it takes the Eikan or super Eikan to fire its main gun once.

This clearly shows that given both the current rate of fire and the current damage, that this submission is unbalanced and is, in fact, better than everyone else's stuff. As per the guide to reviewing submissions, that is one of the things that submitters are instructed to turn down.

I've suggested a couple of ways for Rascal to make this approvable and even tried to help out by fixing some of the broken links, but that's the extent of what I can really do at this juncture.
Click to expand...

I've said this before so let me make it more clear.

SIZE DOES NOT DIRECTLY CORRELATE TO MORE MASS! Which is bigger: a pound of feathers or a pound of bricks?

If it has that much mass, it has that much mass. That just means the UCS made a round with the same mass but less volume. This is a basic, middle school, scientific concept.

You are trying to make this gun an anti-fighter gun listed at T9. With over 600 megatons of force. Another T9 weapon has 240 megatons of force. There is a very clear and very apparent disconnect here.

I have already mentioned I can nerf the fire rate but I'm not going to bring it down to one round every second because even real world engineering is almost ten times faster than that. Also "better than everyone else" is relative to your perception. This cannon is NOT a T9. We have established that just by basic maths going 'this number is almost three times bigger than this number'.

Making your shells bigger only makes them less dense if you use the same material amounts of the same materials. You're talking about this as if the density of a baseball is comparatively little to a basketball simply because the basketball is bigger. I gotta say? Getting hit in the face with a baseball vs a basketball? I'd take the basketball even if the two moved at the exact same speed. Why? Because the basketball isn't as dense.

Also; the 300mm shell has a ridiculously low density to be that large. This is mostly a side note. I know not everyone is scientifically literate. What is bugging me isnt' that. What's bugging me is the fact that science keeps being brought up when it suits YOUR narrative and then you so blatantly disregard science when it doesn't suit YOUR narrative.

I suggested a 600mm shell and YOU agreed that would make the cannon a T14 weapon. Later on you told me over discord in the setting suggestion that my ship was overarmed for its size. So I agreed to start removing weapons AND lowering the tiers of existing weapons. YOU later said that a 600mm cannon would be a T10. So if it's entirely based on the mere caliber of the weapon why is 600mm suddenly 4 full tiers lower than the previous statement? Anyone who goes back in the logs in this exact same thread will see what you said.

MY problem is that you are blatantly so obvious in being barely consistent with the things that you say that you're either incompetent or are being purposefully misleading.

Now would 600mm make the cannon a T14? Or a T10? Because there's a -massive- difference. One of them is barely more than anti-fighter. One of them is able to kill capital ships. Enough with the flopping around trying to get things nerfed 'becuz'. No more hiding behind a DR system. If you want to use it, we will. That's fine. I've already made that very apparent by attempting to work with you rather than against you. Science aside if the DR system is this inconsistent then it obviously needs to be reworked. I'm happy to assist in doing so. Hell, I'll even loan the RPG system I have in order to make it happen! It's a big system sure but there's hundreds of people on SARP that could easily make it work and easily implement the changes needed to make it happen.

Knowing that, we can definitely change the fire rate at which these weapons can attack. That's fine. I think it's stupidly slow for a weapon to attack that slowly. But sure, it'll appease you. But what I am NOT going to do is listen to you prattle about this DR system and then blatantly butcher it repeatedly in front of myself and several others. YOU do not get to make that happen. YOU do not get to make the rules here. YOU do not get to punish those who make new things simply because you don't agree.

Our first interaction when I got here was you cursing a storm at me in a private voice chat, Mecha Meme. You don't get to simply run away from that either. From now on, you're being held responsible for your actions and they have consequences. Others believe the exact same thing I do. Others believe and know you are hiding behind this DR system in order to achieve whatever hare brained agenda you have. They just won't call you out on it. Well? I wasn't raised in this 'feelings' generation. I'm old. I'm a man. And I like to get things done.

So with that said: we are talking about a weapon that is in T9 doing 240 megatons of damage. The Daedalus cannon does over 600 megatons of damage (close to 700) and fires at roughly the same rate as the other weapon (I believe the other weapon to be a burst fire). Obviously, there is a huge disconnect between these scales of damage. Furthermore, don't most weapons in this RP use energy weapons? If we want to get scientific I can tell you that even the most powerful lasers will have a mere 120km of range in space. But science doesn't really matter here so... why are we even discussing the fact that this weapon fires as fast as other weapons? Why are we even discussing the fact that this weapon deals a lot of damage relative to its size?

Stop hiding. Be a man. Let's get this done. If you're incapable find someone else. I'm tired of this.

Furthermore, YOU didn't do anything to fix the broken links. YOU tried to get the faction removed because of them. I was the one who fixed them.
 
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Let's all calm the fuck down here. Because I personally am kinda getting sick and tired of seeing both sides act like children.

Mecha - personal attacks and inconsistency is hardly called for. Instead of rehashing; "It is T9" and continuing to cry about it when Rascal has made it very clear he intends for this to be a ship's main weapon, maybe tell him how he can make it T14? What's expected, what it needs and how it can be balanced out in terms for it to be a proper T14? He's inexperienced in the setting enough as is, so instead of being a pain about it, maybe do your job and help?

Rascal - I see you mentioning you're a man, but all I see you do is rehashing the same shit over and over again like a petulant child, not to mention the "let's be men," statement, which in my eyes translates to; "meet me irl I'll beat ur ass lmao." I don't need to explain just how ridiculous that is. Instead of throwing a tantrum about how the DR system is broken and how it doesn't make sense, adhere to it. This is a soft sci-fi setting where fantasy and fun take priority over hard science. I myself don't really mind whether you want to throw a faction in yourself, from the get-go. What I do mind is you coming here and complaining about the system being broken, trying to change a setting you're nothing more than a guest to and bend, possibly break rules for your own gain. It might not be your intention, but that is certainly how you come across to me.

This place is to have fun, so hopefully with you two thick-skulled people reminded, work together on how to make this work. Not against eachother.
 
If the DR system doesn't ultimately matter then why does it exist in the first place? Not only that but if this system is so broad that a 240 megaton weapon and a nearly 700 megaton weapon are doing the exact same thing effectively then in that case it isn't a far stretch to think that a 9mm round will do the same thing as a cruiser main cannon.

Also please don't take my words out of context. I'm sick of this guy hiding behind everything he can and being purposefully vague in an attempt to subvert anything I make. He has done this numerous times and I am not the only person he has done this to.

The DR system works well enough. What doesn't work is when someome like Mr. Hart begins to manipulate it for his own ends instead of arbitrating it fairly.
 
... When did I ever mention the DR system does not matter? I've tried re-reading my earlier comment and besides coming the conclusion I shouldn't have get mixed in this magnificent drama generator, I've not found it so far.
 
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