OOC Eucharis Discussion

In response to Wes; Tasuku would probably disappear for a bit in mid-day to afternoon after the breakfast, but he would probably show back up in the afternoon. I only intend to make mild reference to that time period when he returns, which would likely involve a drawn out period with his family since he has been gone a long while.

Lilly hasn't posted on over a week, and has not posted any explanation for her absence, so I'm going to drop her from the plot since it's time to drop the inactive players anyway (plot audit). I'll post transfer orders for Misaki. Since we're on the planet, it's a good time to do that (as opposed to in the middle of a mission).

Please let me know if you're going to be absent for a vacation or something, so I don't think you've abandoned the RP.

Someone trained to be a medic wouldn't be trained as much as a doctor. And just because you can patch up a wound doesn't mean you know how the body works. I can apply band-aids, but I don't know the process the body goes through or how the band-aid helps it. And a medic wouldn't need to know, most likely.

In fact, some of the skills you listed would be useless to even a doctor. Xenobiology? Botany? Is he going to treat plants from a foreign world for measles?

And in fact, your bio says:

Sune learned basic first aid, and the use of homeopathic healing techniques from the people who found him. While on the scout ship he spent time with the ship's medic to familiarize himself with Yamataian medicine. This is gave him the idea later to join the service, he is proficient in Medical skill.

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So, while I'm not going to say what anyone writes is an exhaustive account, there is no mention of science... at all. And I don't think there's anything in your career so far where you could have gained said skills. So, even if it was possible or even the norm for Star Army Medics to have such skills (which I doubt) you shouldn't.

And if Medicine and Science covers all that, just what is the point of having a skill "Biology"? Could I have taken Science and Medical and gotten everything in biology plus surgery skills?

As for the new approach, it specifically points out medics have first aid skill, which again is leagues below a doctor. And everything else you learned was from a bunch of spacers, not the scientific type. It even defines what medical skill is, which is what you gave yourself under Medical and Science: first aid. Not exactly a scientific background.


I don't mind you having gotten the transfer, because screwing up badly is realistic, but Sune should look at the equations and DNA analysis Darnell hands him and kind of stare at it and have no idea what it means. He simply doesn't have the background.

I don't really want to get into the middle of an argument, but I thought I should point out a flaw in your argument, Erus. Leaving aside the fact that, as Nashoba already pointed out, both Jalen and Carlisle went through the same occupational training, the idea that one year of Basic and occupational training somehow diversifies individuals' skill sets as far as you are attempting to imply is far from accurate. It is running a complete double standard to state that on the one hand Jalen can't possibly have an in depth scientific background because he went through Star Army Medic training and didn't learn to be a "real" doctor, while Carlisle's Star Army Science training has turned him into a theoretical science prodigy.

Now, if Carlisle had spent all of his nineteen years in school studying science such a gulf in knowledge might be more believable, especially given Jalen's chronological age of three. However, according to your history he did no such thing; indeed as is stated, Carlisle's schooling was entirely deficient and that he spent most of his adolescence in a gang. Indeed the implication is that Carlisle's education only began upon enlistment in the Star Army and his subsequent placement in Educational Facility 2. It can be fairly pointed out that Educational Facility 2 does produce "full-fledged professionals." However the stated length of the program is sixteen years. Even assuming that Carlisle entered Educational Facility 2 immediately upon the Star Army taking control of it (YE 29) he could not have completed more than a fraction of the basic curriculum, let alone the advanced phase which teaches the skills you state Carlisle has.

My point is this: you expect us to accept that Carlisle has vast reserves of knowledge and experience in a huge number of areas (relative to a typical individual's focus in academia) even given a few inconsistencies and discrepancies as to how exactly he gained said knowledge and experience. Yet you also expect us to find it ridiculous for Jalen to be able to understand any of the work Carlisle has already begun, because "he simply doesn't have the background." This presumption on your part does indeed, as I said before, betray a rather serious double standard.

I would offer that there are two reasonable positions to accept. First, based purely off of the pages describing - rather ambiguously - the occupations and skills in question, we consider Jalen to be no more than a simple medic who knows only the rote methods of attending to wounds and we consider Carlisle to be no more than a sensor technician with some awareness of other scientific topics. Or, second, we consider both men to share a common knowledge base, if different in specialization, and common scientific and methodical way of thinking from which they can both contribute useful insight to provide constructive advise and support to the command team.

Again, none of this is intended as anything like an insult; rather I hope that my critique can help stop this argument which is only getting in the way of everyone's desire: having a pair of capable scientists that both players can enjoy writing for.

The simplest and most reasonable solution, to me, falls in between the extremes Sean outlined. Both characters would probably have the equivalent of a Bachelors in their respective fields, resulting in competent, trained professionals in their respective fields.

Jalen's training, I would think, would be more focused on combat medicine (being a medic) with a smattering of other information and skill in the field. He is skilled in the field of medicine with a broad (albeit shallow in most areas) knowledge of the field He could set a broken bone, suture a wound, or diagnose Mulbary Cragh-fever but probably couldn't go out and do open-heart surgery without the MEGAMI giving him some help on the procedure.

Being a science officer, Darnell's training would probably be much less focused as he is intended as a adviser to the captain. No one can reasonably expect someone to be a expert at all fields of science after a year or two of training. Experts (the people with the Doctorates) would be back at HQ advising the Admiralty; they represent too much knowledge and experience to risk (or waste) stationed aboard a gunship or escort. His knowledge of the field would, by intent of the training, be very broad, covering a wide range of subjects but without substantial depth in any of them, likely aimed more at the practical realm than the theoretical. He could identify the weather patterns of a strange world (given the sensor readings), interpret the sensor data from a nebula, help Engineering figure out why that pulsar is messing with the shields, or explain the principles underlying the CDD system but probably couldn't bust out the equations governing its operation without doing some research.

I think that this interpretation is a reasonable reflection both of the Star Army training they received and of their skills listed in their bios (as written, without sudden skill-epiphanies). Both characters are competent, knowledgeable representatives of their fields, but neither is a genius at it.

As to Jalen being moved to command of the Science division, bureaucracies (the military included) have a long history of putting people in charge of areas were they are as knowledgeable as is desired. Jalen would have to expect a lot of late nights in the future doing a crash course through the sciences, probably over a period of months. On the other hand, his training as a medic has him more prepared for the transition than most, since it would have taught him problem solving (much as the science and engineering fields do).

,
Vesper

I smell several people taking this slightly too seriously.

What it boils down to on an OOC and IC level - Jalen Sune is wasted in medical. Medical, much like bridge crew, is a reactive job rather than a pro-active one. The player has written a pro-active character and in order to make the player comfortable a decision was made to accomidate.

Also, food for thought;

In real life when someone crosses rates, there is usually a period of time where they undergo some on-the-job training. I see no reason to battle back and forth, out of character, about the character's background when it is not the character's background in question, but their aptitude for learning a different trade.

Sean, I ask you to point out these "inconsistencies and discrepancies" you mention so they can be corrected and I can avoid making them again.

As I've said, I don't mind Sune being transferred, but he should have no idea what he is doing. He should be completely incompetent at the beginning, and this should be made worse by the fact he is the boss and supposedly the 'mentor' of someone who knows more than him. If it wasn't for the fact that it is being claimed he is competent, I wouldn't mind.

Now, obviously, this would eventually change. Eventually. Certainly not by the end of shore leave or the next mission. And until he catches up to Darnell, Darnell is going to sit there resenting he is the boss. I'm perfectly fine with this happening. But it's being claimed that not only has he been given the position of boss but that he is qualified for it. This is what I am objecting to.

If you want him to be in a more active position then he's got it and OOC I don't mind, but you have to realize he is going to look very stupid quite a lot until he learns a lot of things he shouldn't know right now. He isn't qualified. And as for his ability to learn... the only potential teacher on board is Darnell. Yet Sune is supposed to be Darnell's mentor. But regardless I have no objections to that, because it is acknowledging he does not have the skills he should.

That is exactly what I am saying.

Not that we should reverse the decision, not that Sune should stay in medical or get out of Star Army Science, not that Darnell should be the boss, but that he should have no idea what he is doing and none or very few of the skills a member of Star Army Science should need. If we're all in agreement about that then I've misinterpreted something and I apologize, if not, that is what I am asserting. That is all I'm asserting.

*casually ignores character skill set arguments*

For anyone that hasn't noticed, most of the Eucharis crew(afaik) seems to have received an anonymous 5000KS deposit on their accounts, not just Tasuku. Actually happened some time ago irl(recently IC), I noticed about 20min later. Go me! for watching wiki changes!

Wes said:

...Please let me know if you're going to be absent for a vacation or something, so I don't think you've abandoned the RP.

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Notices Fay's character is still listed on the crew roster, despite not having logged in since April. Also Hamada is still listed as the second officer.

For all the people fighting about the science thing, this is what it boils down to is that IC Jalen outranks Darnell and he shouldn't even be attempting to argue, it's a blatant disregard to the respect of a superior. Also, OOC, Nashoba has been RPing on Star Army a lot longer than Erus has and therefor has more experience, knows what he's talking about, and knows what things can slip past a background check. He would also know more about what any character would experience during training science wise as he has a character running the SSS. All in all Erus is going to lose this argument no matter what.


And scribbles you're right, I did get the anonymous deposit. Although anyone can do a check OOC on where the money came from. And the verdict is.....gosh darn! When I check old revisions it doesn't pull anything new up. Although we all know who would be able to edit a page without it registering on the older versions.

Folks,
OOC

The Anonymous deposit of 5000 KS, to all the crew members who were on the last mission was made by Sune.

This was cleared by Wes, back when I won the tech challenge and gave the money to Sune. From his time on the Bouken, when a member of that crew would come into a windfall they would share some with the others of the crew. Sune was following the tradition, but did not want it known publically. So enjoy the extra money, buy your character some nice things.

Nashoba

Glad I went infantry >.>

By the by, Wes and Eucharis' scientist dudes... I really would appreciate if you chipped in here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4164

All this wedding planning stuff is really consuming my time and energy. We're only two weeks out from my wedding and honeymoon.

That said, I think I'm going to have Hanako take a temporary absence from the plot (until I'm back from my honeymoon) and leave Lilly and/or Gallant in charge (if Lilly wants to be a member of this plot she needs to start posting again on a regular and consistent basis).

Thoughts?

Demibear - I wanted to post a reply to you but I'm not sure what to say at the moment. I will try to come up with something before tomorrow.

Ok, I'll hold off on replying 'til then.

Hey does anyone know who I could talk to about getting character art for Ramiro?

If you want to purchase the image yourself Wes posted this which points out two people who can do it for relatively inexpensive.

Inexpensive Commission Option Discovered!

I think once we finish breakfast, we should split into seperate group-based threads for the shore leave. Then when we're done "chillaxing" on Yamatai we'll meet up again in the start of the next mission's thread. Cool?

Sorry I've been posting a little slower than normal, last minute planning for the wedding and honeymoon has been taking a lot of my time.

Apologies from myself, too.

Real life is kicking my ass. Quite literally. And ACTUALLY I'm going to need a volunteer who has time to copy-pasta some things into e-mail for me.

well in about 26 hours I will be departing for New Mexico where I will have no internet and be returning 2 weeks later. So I'll just BS some excuse that Ramiro isn't with the group and call it good.