It's on the semi-approved Onslaught-class Battleship. It was also going to serve as the Sakura's main cannon during the original design phase, but Derran shot it down in the Sakura discussion thead.
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Genesis
- Thread starter Zakalwe
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Zakalwe
Inactive Member
Not quite, that was a United Energy Beam. That's one step more powerful than a UTC, because it has also integrated gravity, completely recreating the energy that existed at the creation of the universe. The UTC only integrates the Electro-Magnetic Force, the Weak Nuclear Force, and the Strong Nuclear force.
Yangfan
Inactive Member
I don't have a good feel of what kind of techs are approve-able, so I won't comment on that.
What I would like to know, and I believe I have asked this in past occasions, is why does NovaCorp feels the need to build anti-fleet weapons? The Star Army hasn't asked them to design one. And if this tech does get approved, the Yamataian government would most likely write a new law to ban its usage by non-government entities anyway. (It'd be pretty hard not to attract all kinds of attention when you test-fire this thing.)
What I would like to know, and I believe I have asked this in past occasions, is why does NovaCorp feels the need to build anti-fleet weapons? The Star Army hasn't asked them to design one. And if this tech does get approved, the Yamataian government would most likely write a new law to ban its usage by non-government entities anyway. (It'd be pretty hard not to attract all kinds of attention when you test-fire this thing.)
Also: Should we have this in the Star Army universe? How will a weapon like this help create a more fun environment for the players? Right now I'm not so sure, because it's yet another effortless one-shot-kill-everybody weapon, which we have plenty of already and are trying to cut down on, along with the uberarmors.Uso Tasuki said:
Zack
Inactive Member
The GWB used to be the one hit kill anything weapon and things evolved that toned down the importance of the weapon. If protection and weapon tech is allowed to continue to advance then it will keep in equilibrium.
ICly this allows for characters to get involved with tech and constantly have new challenges to adapt to.
The only drawback are people who complain because they can't adapt.
ICly this allows for characters to get involved with tech and constantly have new challenges to adapt to.
The only drawback are people who complain because they can't adapt.
Tom
Inactive Member
I don't see why we need to force players to adapt to things in the first place. That's not inviting to potential new players.
Besides, we have such an overabundance of tech right now that much of the stuff that's been approved hasn't even been used much in the RP. Go look through what's already been passed and make your challenges out of that (which I'm sure there can be infinite variations thereof) before adding more stuff to the pile.
Of course, this needs to count for everyone too, from newbies to Wes himself.
Fred
Retired Staff
That's taking it the wrong way Uso. Like you said before, when everything becomes super, whatever is made that is new really doesn't matter much anymore.
There can always be the influx of new stuff coming around without having the said contributions to be on the upper scale of existing technology. Efficiency and usefulness over plain power is what innovation in the SARP should be about.
There can always be the influx of new stuff coming around without having the said contributions to be on the upper scale of existing technology. Efficiency and usefulness over plain power is what innovation in the SARP should be about.
Karma Mechanic
Inactive Member
Wes said:
I have to agree with Wes on this point, we are already cutting down on all the uber-powerful things floating about. And just because we could have something doesn't necessarily mean that we should have it. We have enough anti-fleet/anti-planet/anti-solar system/anti-universe weapons, that we have to work around as it is.
Zack
Inactive Member
Apparently the point of that line was missed in its entirety.
Making everything super means super is the new norm. Then more super is made and the process repeats itself. It is quite literally retarded to retard the process which has been going on everywhere sense the dawn of time. I remember when the GWB and the legacy cannons were the ultimate weapons of destruction and now they are just normal.
Making everything super means super is the new norm. Then more super is made and the process repeats itself. It is quite literally retarded to retard the process which has been going on everywhere sense the dawn of time. I remember when the GWB and the legacy cannons were the ultimate weapons of destruction and now they are just normal.
Yangfan
Inactive Member
I've seen the cycles Zack talks about... I don't know. The techs do seem a bit iffy after a few iterations of the cycle.
I don't see why anyone would actually plan to continue the cycle of making "superior" weapons indefinitely. No matter how good of a tech-writer you are, you're going to sound ridiculous sometime in the future. The cycle is not sustainable, not without losing originality.
I don't know what techs are harmful to the RP and what are not. I do know that I don't want the RP to turn into a space-opera version of Dragonball.
Thomas, I'm sorry about using your tech thread to have this discussion, but I felt the need to comment on this.
I don't see why anyone would actually plan to continue the cycle of making "superior" weapons indefinitely. No matter how good of a tech-writer you are, you're going to sound ridiculous sometime in the future. The cycle is not sustainable, not without losing originality.
I don't know what techs are harmful to the RP and what are not. I do know that I don't want the RP to turn into a space-opera version of Dragonball.
Thomas, I'm sorry about using your tech thread to have this discussion, but I felt the need to comment on this.
I agree with Zack in this case, though I don't agree with his philosophy of "there's always another tech level." However, I don't think this OOC reasoning should really be applied here, though I will respond to the whole "we're trying to cut back" thing with something Jake mentioned to me earlier: he doesn't see where this stuff is used anyway, so I think it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Tom basically stated the same thing, but for a different point which I'll talk about in exactly one second. Thus I don't really think we have to "work around" this stuff in the first place, but I'm not so involved in the actual RP so I'll stop talking about stuff I might not understand.
But this should be discussed from an IC standpoint. The approval or ignoring of previously proposed tech shouldn't really have any impact on IC R&D. It makes perfect sense for NovaCorp to develop such a super-weapon if they don't have one already, else how would they compete with other corporations in terms of sales or power? Even if the government doesn't buy into it, they could find a market.
As for more fun for players, that's never been the goal of tech proposal at this site. Nevertheless, it could end up being something if it's actually followed through IC, unlike some other tech. Maybe it wouldn't be so fun for the people being shot at, but it would make an impact, and since there's an IC reason for the tech anyway, what's the problem? If no one else, Thomas could work with it and have fun with it, which I think is fitting because he spent the OOC time on it in the first place.
I may be unaware, but as long as there's no active and rapid reduction of tech in the universe, there's no reason for this to go un-approved. At most, this is where you can draw the line. I'm interested to see how you're going to go about scaling back tech without disrupting continuity.
Quick Edit: "I do know that I don't want the RP to turn into a space-opera version of Dragonball." Too bad it already happened a few years ago, but I don't think one super-weapon from a corporation that's just trying to catch up with the rest is going to have as much of a negative impact as some other tech.
But this should be discussed from an IC standpoint. The approval or ignoring of previously proposed tech shouldn't really have any impact on IC R&D. It makes perfect sense for NovaCorp to develop such a super-weapon if they don't have one already, else how would they compete with other corporations in terms of sales or power? Even if the government doesn't buy into it, they could find a market.
As for more fun for players, that's never been the goal of tech proposal at this site. Nevertheless, it could end up being something if it's actually followed through IC, unlike some other tech. Maybe it wouldn't be so fun for the people being shot at, but it would make an impact, and since there's an IC reason for the tech anyway, what's the problem? If no one else, Thomas could work with it and have fun with it, which I think is fitting because he spent the OOC time on it in the first place.
I may be unaware, but as long as there's no active and rapid reduction of tech in the universe, there's no reason for this to go un-approved. At most, this is where you can draw the line. I'm interested to see how you're going to go about scaling back tech without disrupting continuity.
Quick Edit: "I do know that I don't want the RP to turn into a space-opera version of Dragonball." Too bad it already happened a few years ago, but I don't think one super-weapon from a corporation that's just trying to catch up with the rest is going to have as much of a negative impact as some other tech.
Fred
Retired Staff
I think the whole 'create a universe to trap a ship in it and then either close it off or make it collapse' goes too far. I understand the tech level for the SARP is high, but this seriously pushes it. If it's allowed, then, what's next?! Are you folks going to use the same old excuses of ever advancing techs to make something even more outrageous?
Not that I want to needlessly screw away with Zakalwe's ideas, but I'm strongly against the approval of this particular piece of equipment and the concept behind it.
Wes' concerns are also quite valid. I'll point out the blurb descriptions for each of the concerned forums:
As for 'toning down stuff', I'll refer to the following post: https://stararmy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5982#5982
Not that I want to needlessly screw away with Zakalwe's ideas, but I'm strongly against the approval of this particular piece of equipment and the concept behind it.
Wes' concerns are also quite valid. I'll point out the blurb descriptions for each of the concerned forums:
As for 'toning down stuff', I'll refer to the following post: https://stararmy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5982#5982
Recent player surveys highlighted the player base's discontent with "total annihilation" weapons. In the past, there's also been concern over mental backups and ships that are insanely fast. See also the limits of technology (I want everyone to re-read the limits of technology thread, too, please).
Over the last few months I have been working towards creating a more exciting RP environment with more options than the usual Star Army career. I want to continue to develop other nations in the RP such as Nepleslia as player controlled factions. A key element to PvP ship warfare being enjoyable is not being instantly killed by enemy ships. Mishhuvurthyar ships use the weapons they do because I wanted Star Army ships to be at serious risk but also have many chances to take damage without being destroyed. Give player characters a chance!
There are plenty of weapons in the Star Army RP that aleady do this function (most notably the old Legacy cannon I'm outphasing) and the last thing we need is yet another weapon that destroys ships/fleets in one hit without even giving the victim a chance to take damage. Already I've started on eliminating the "total annihilation" descriptions in weapons like the aether shock cannon and projected energy beams.
Before we approve this weapon, the unified theory weapon should probably be approved, too. Even if the UTC is approved, though, I'm still hesistant to add a weapon like this to the RP when it will provide no real benefits.
Anyone who supports this weapon probably deserves to have their plot ship erased by it.
Over the last few months I have been working towards creating a more exciting RP environment with more options than the usual Star Army career. I want to continue to develop other nations in the RP such as Nepleslia as player controlled factions. A key element to PvP ship warfare being enjoyable is not being instantly killed by enemy ships. Mishhuvurthyar ships use the weapons they do because I wanted Star Army ships to be at serious risk but also have many chances to take damage without being destroyed. Give player characters a chance!
There are plenty of weapons in the Star Army RP that aleady do this function (most notably the old Legacy cannon I'm outphasing) and the last thing we need is yet another weapon that destroys ships/fleets in one hit without even giving the victim a chance to take damage. Already I've started on eliminating the "total annihilation" descriptions in weapons like the aether shock cannon and projected energy beams.
Before we approve this weapon, the unified theory weapon should probably be approved, too. Even if the UTC is approved, though, I'm still hesistant to add a weapon like this to the RP when it will provide no real benefits.
Anyone who supports this weapon probably deserves to have their plot ship erased by it.
Cora
Well-Known Member
Uso, we've more or less reached the celing of technology out there.
Almost all the weapons made are re-toolings of others, or upscaled models of smaller guns. Or, in some cases, the modification of non-leathel technology, like the wormhole generater, turned into a military application.
Then there are weapons and technology that actually fly in the face of known science, with the Suspention of Disbelif compleatly ignored. Such as the Genesis, the Theory cannon and the Foam Generators. Not that I'm simply singling Zac here, your attempt at making a multi-role ship complealy ignored the Conservation of Heat, not to mention ignoring how sound waves actually work.
There are also power plants and generaters in the SARP that are "perfect engines" which give 100% energy. Which is impossible due to the laws of Conservation of Energy, which states nothing is perfect and a percentage of everngy is alwys lost in the process of making it.
Really, the entire game needs a serious looking over to help with the fact nearly everything ignores one or more laws of Science, Physics, Conservation or just plain common sense.
Almost all the weapons made are re-toolings of others, or upscaled models of smaller guns. Or, in some cases, the modification of non-leathel technology, like the wormhole generater, turned into a military application.
Then there are weapons and technology that actually fly in the face of known science, with the Suspention of Disbelif compleatly ignored. Such as the Genesis, the Theory cannon and the Foam Generators. Not that I'm simply singling Zac here, your attempt at making a multi-role ship complealy ignored the Conservation of Heat, not to mention ignoring how sound waves actually work.
There are also power plants and generaters in the SARP that are "perfect engines" which give 100% energy. Which is impossible due to the laws of Conservation of Energy, which states nothing is perfect and a percentage of everngy is alwys lost in the process of making it.
Really, the entire game needs a serious looking over to help with the fact nearly everything ignores one or more laws of Science, Physics, Conservation or just plain common sense.
Fred
Retired Staff
It seems to me like aether generators work a lot like hydroelectric dams: the energy source is effectively unlimited (so, no worries about fuel), but the power available at any one time is still limited to the current energy feed plus what power you have stored in capacitors.
Also, you can now find information on the new teleportation module in the Mindy power armor's specs sheet. The module isn't half as convenient as it looks too: there are clear drawbacks and it takes a good deal of time to activate.
I also consider Wes has the right to 'pull stuff out of his arse' in regards to technology as plot devices. I know that if I led a plot and that I wanted to have antagonists that would have weaponry capable of disabling ships systems, I'd make up the weapon and justify it later, regardless of it a anti-scalar field would actually protect the ship or not. Plot devices are plot devices. *shrugs*
Also, you can now find information on the new teleportation module in the Mindy power armor's specs sheet. The module isn't half as convenient as it looks too: there are clear drawbacks and it takes a good deal of time to activate.
I also consider Wes has the right to 'pull stuff out of his arse' in regards to technology as plot devices. I know that if I led a plot and that I wanted to have antagonists that would have weaponry capable of disabling ships systems, I'd make up the weapon and justify it later, regardless of it a anti-scalar field would actually protect the ship or not. Plot devices are plot devices. *shrugs*
Cora
Well-Known Member
Well, that's true, but when Wes introduced it, it had no errors, or flaws. It could transposition a mindy armor anywhere in it's range, which was never stated, instantly, with no drawback. So, you could see my stance on it when it showed up.
Now that I know it's been limited and written up, I have no quams. I'll delete that part of my argument after I post this.
Now that I know it's been limited and written up, I have no quams. I'll delete that part of my argument after I post this.
On that note, I can see the Mindy's teleportation unit section needs some work (grammar-wise and to add range and mass limits).
But back to the subject of Thomas' new weapon...I went through and counted people's "votes" about aproving the weapon (if I got any of these wrong let me know).
For:
Thomas
Thad
Zack
Neutral:
Yangfan
Against:
Wes
Doshii
Chris
Tiffany
Fred
Tom
Scribbles
Too many questions were never answered, and I seriously don't see how this weapon would help our RP. Going by the numbers, a lot of people agree. As a result, this technology will not be approved, at least for the time being.
Thanks for the good discussion everyone. We had a lot of good points brought up, such as the process toning down things, the need for more details on existing tech like the Mindy teleporter, and possibly requiring new tech to be developed-in character.
But back to the subject of Thomas' new weapon...I went through and counted people's "votes" about aproving the weapon (if I got any of these wrong let me know).
For:
Thomas
Thad
Zack
Neutral:
Yangfan
Against:
Wes
Doshii
Chris
Tiffany
Fred
Tom
Scribbles
Too many questions were never answered, and I seriously don't see how this weapon would help our RP. Going by the numbers, a lot of people agree. As a result, this technology will not be approved, at least for the time being.
Thanks for the good discussion everyone. We had a lot of good points brought up, such as the process toning down things, the need for more details on existing tech like the Mindy teleporter, and possibly requiring new tech to be developed-in character.
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