Approved Submission IATF

Will this have a plot, and do you have a GM ready for it?

Hey, well I have been asked to be the GM, I said to nite train that I would be the GM.

I think considering the historical significance of colored tunics in Nepleslia, black and red would be a poor choice for their uniform colors, because black shirts of that style are associated with the mob and dealers of arms and drugs, and because red markings could also be misinterpreted to show alignment with the Reds, a militaristic royalist libertarian faction that has been part of Nepleslia since before known history. Essentially, with the suggested uniform they'd be knowingly blazing up in the wrong gang colors and looking like the traditional enemies of the cops.

What about grey and blue instead?

Those being the colors of the NPF, to whom these fellows are subordinated to, that would make sense.

However, your numbers make no sense. A force of that size is the equivalent of a small Marine planetary invasion force. I was not aware that we needed quite so many specialists when we have a fairly good police and the impeccable IPG. Further, for specialists, they seem to require rather generalist skillsets. ALL must be proficient EOD, undercover agents, riot control expert and leaders?

No force in Nepleslia is like this. Not even the IPG. You want undercover, you go to the Intel boys. EOD? The MPs have specialists whose sole job is to play with bombs. Riot Control is part of every officer's training.

No one is supposed to be a super special snowflake. This is the same IRL. Police forces have trained dog-handlers, the Bomb Squad, Riot Police, SWAT, snipers. No such thing as a Riot Squad member on the SWAT team. The two require very different skill sets.

With our police on the level of BOPE or GSG-9, and the IPG functioning as SAS, Gestapo, and CIA, you really need to be specific about what they do that our regular cops or the IPG cannot. As it is, they are just a special snowflake force that is supposed to be better than the police but not as good as the IPG. Speaking as the guy who manages both organizations and as a Nep GM, I don't see how or why we need this organization with its numbers and clear lack of specialist equipment or training.

In short - I'm not sold. These guys are marketed as specialists, yet they are not.

Give them frames then we can have in-sarp Patlabor!

Also. uh.

Would they wear "Fuck the police" shirts to parties and the likes?

You know because it becomes a clever suggestion rather than any knock toward law enforcement?

Sigma said:

However, your numbers make no sense.

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With a population of 20 billion, you seem to be having the exact opposite problem that @Floodwaters and myself thought people would have, that numbers would be too small.

Sigma said:

Further, for specialists, they seem to require rather generalist skillsets. ALL must be proficient EOD, undercover agents, riot control expert and leaders?

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They aren't specialists as much as they are the elete. I'm not showing these guys off as unique, I'm showing them off as effective. The training may be "general" but that's what it should be.

Sigma said:

No one is supposed to be a super special snowflake. This is the same IRL. Police forces have trained dog-handlers, the Bomb Squad, Riot Police, SWAT, snipers. No such thing as a Riot Squad member on the SWAT team. The two require very different skill sets.

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No one is, and I'm not copying the SWAT altogether, i'm just giving a basic idea of what the IATF would be utilized for. On that note, the IATF isn't a riot squad, it's a task force. Since you bring up real life, then I will too. You don't have certain police officers specifically hired to hand out speeding tickets and others to deal with domestic violence only. I get the impression that you believe every single person in the IATF needs a specific and unique purpose and that just isn't the case. The IATF covers a much broader range than that.

Sigma said:

I'm not sold. These guys are marketed as specialists, yet they are not.

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Again, they aren't specialists. You make some good points, but you're coming off as spiteful and angry with your criticism. Instead of just telling me what I did wrong and how little you see in the organization, would a helpful suggestion or two be too much to ask? If you aren't sold, what can I do to change your mind? If nothing will change it, then do you need to be sold for this to happen?

nite train said:

You don't have certain police officers specifically hired to hand out speeding tickets

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They're called Traffic Police and they're quite common. I believe they're called State Patrols in the US.

nite train said:

you're coming off as spiteful and angry with your criticism

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I feel obligated to point out that I gave you my suggestions in your other thread but that advice was not taken. Therefore, I would only be repeating myself. Though perhaps I was also unclear, I do not know as I was not subsequently addressed or contacted.

But to sum it up, I told you to differentiate their capabilities. All you've done is to label them as "better." If anyone wants better than the NPF, the historic decision is to call in the Marines, who are undeniably better combat troops, or the IPG, who have people who are undeniably better at one thing or another. When there's anything too big for the NPF to handle, you call the IPG. They are the elite in Nepleslia. The MPs are best police force in Nepleslia. Making a tier in-between them is simply unnecessary. Making them better is not making them different.

Making them different would mean that they are specialists, guys who can do things that the regular chaps cannot. Skills which the regular guys do not possess. Alternately, a mission set that sets them apart from the regular guys such as pursuing Black Syndicate operations or something similarly big and specific. Because otherwise, I'm just going to say, "Why can't the IPG do that? They have the manpower, better skills, and greater resources in addition to being completely untouchable by the law."

What I want? I want something that Nepleslia needs. I want to see our many voids filled with something appropriate and natural. Nepleslia doesn't need a better police force. Our existing one, barring corruption and graft, is usually pretty good. You're trying to squeeze these guys into the gap between our existing forces and that's the core of my problem. You don't seem to show an understanding of my faction and its needs. This feels like you're forcing the concept to work except that it cannot because to me, and many other players, there's already been a very clear and established line in the role play between the usually well-trained paramilitary police and the nigh-godly military when dealing with all sorts of violent crimes. Especially in the past few years when the IPG shrank to a fraction of its original size that it could only work within Nepleslia. We don't need elite. Years of genocidal warfare have already given us plenty. I am happy to provide RP instances if you so desire.

I cannot provide suggestions to make your idea better because it has progressed to a point where I am now opposed to its necessity in our faction. Its previous iteration, being less refined, was when I provided direction. Differentiate, not elevate. It is a difficult thing to do considering the capabilities of the IPG. It is even harder when you don't understand the faction. Neither I am guessing do BloodyScarlet nor Floodwaters as they do not have characters in a Nepleslian plot. If this is to be the basis for a Nepleslian plot, I would have also hoped to see @BloodyScarlet , as the nominated GM, also defending the concept and telling me how it could work.

nite train said:

If nothing will change it, then do you need to be sold for this to happen?

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No, I don't need to be sold. The only one who needs to be sold is Kampfer.

Alright, not taking the advice you left in the first thread was my bad. In my defense though, I was working on a lot of other aspects of the wiki and it slipped my mind that you mentioned anything. I see the point you're trying to make and, on some level, I agree with you. I'm putting a lot of research into Nepleslia as a society to make this work but I still have a lot to figure out. My point in saying this is that even if this gets approved, it'll still be a work in progress, just like every other part of SARP. Again, thank you for making your voice heard and I'll see what I can do, if I can do it.

Update: I edited the wiki to fix the numbers and worked out a couple kinks in the uniform section. I also established the difference between the IATF and the IPG.

My suggestion is to make the force smaller (remember the inverse ninja law, and that it can always grow more later) and to clarify their purpose.

Basically, we need to answer "what problem does this force address?"

If we have a solid answer to that, the composition of the force will come easily.

We also need to answer "Why would the IATF be better at solving this problem that other existing forces?"

I want this submission to be approved, and in order to do that we need to address people's concerns by answering the above convincingly and updating the article accordingly.

The IATF specializes in coordinated strikes and assaults on high threat criminals

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It would make sense, I think, if the IATF was basically set up like SEAL teams are, and they were used as a hit squad for otherwise-untouchable criminal kingpins. This is just me brainstorming, though. Let me know what you think.

I would go even smaller. A single team, a single location, for a single mission, as a test of concept. I have no problems with a small, experimental unit to deal with a very specific problem but an army of super mooks is not going to serve us in any way.

When I say "problem," I literally mean 1 case that has multiple points to solve, investigate, etc.

If I recall correctly, we talked about this before in PMs Nite Train. Before I start though, please don't be offended at anything Sigma has said though - he's simply being direct and to the point with any problems he sees.

Anyways, at that time we talked, I suggested you go ahead and make a new organization believing that such a thing was left uncovered by current articles. I was incorrect on that since I hadn't paid the police force much attention since I'm typically more interested in warfare, and it's my fault if I left you an impression that there was a gap that needed filling. Looking things over as this was submitted, it quickly became clear to me that the NPF is more or less what "Mega City One" had - "The Judges". Who would be our equivalent of Judge Dredd however, I wouldn't know. Anyways. The basic police of Nepleslia all wear body armor that can stop the average assault rifle, use armored vehicles, and don't even field regular 9mms or .45's as their sidearms. They have machine-pistols, semi-automatic magnums and a mass driver which can fire high explosives. And then there's the rest of their arsenal.

If a situation would ever need anything more, the military would drop shock troopers down from orbit or something. I didn't realize it at the time, but they basically already occupy that 'upper crust' of operations.

A good question to ask would be what Wes pointed out; "Why would the IATF be better at solving this problem that other existing forces?" However, a better question to ask would be, "What does the upcoming police plot need?" The only one that has the answer to that would be @BloodyScarlet . I originally thought that you were going to GM the plot Nite Train, but since that's not the case, BloodyScarlet needs to tell us why the plot needs this or that detail, otherwise we're left with the impression that it's extra stuff.

So what does the plot need from this that it won't get from being normal NPF? What kind of police work will this enable that being normal NPF won't? The fights? The kind of story? I support the idea of the plot, but I fear having anything redundant - looking it over, I don't see how they'd be able to do anything better than the standard NPF at this time.

You'll have to make us see that this offers something RP-wise that the current stuff does not.

Wes said:

We also need to answer "Why would the IATF be better at solving this problem that other existing forces?"

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In the wiki, I noted that the IATF could be deployed faster than a military response team such as the IPG, but still handle the situation with little to no drop in effectiveness.

Sigma said:

A single team, a single location, for a single mission, as a test of concept.

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You mean like a test plot? That actually sounds like a really great idea. I'll try and contact either @BloodyScarlet or @Floodwaters for more details for this thread.

Wait, I'm a little confused now. These are police right? Irregardless of the situation, the police will always be there faster than the military simply because they're the ones that are already there. This is their turf. However, they'll never be as effective as said military - the two are fundamentally different forces. The IPG is simply far better equipped. There's no way that they'd have a chance to be as effective going off of that alone. If you want them to be some sort of elite, rapid reaction strike force, what you need to do is justify their effectiveness and speed.

Also, I feel the need to make sure we're on the same page in regards to the IPG too. They're the Gestapo, SS, CIA, Spetsnaz, Mossad - basically Military Intelligence, but with their own equipment and ability to deploy on par with the military itself, if not better. They're not supposed to respond to a developing situation - they're the ones that tell the police it's going to happen before it does. And if they do get involved in something, it's either covert and quiet, or something simply far beyond the police paygrade.

Don't compare the two simply because they're like apples and oranges.

nite train said:

In the wiki, I noted that the IATF could be deployed faster than a military response team such as the IPG, but still handle the situation with little to no drop in effectiveness.

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What Cadet says is true. But you also fail to grasp other major differences between the IPG and the NPF. The IPG are not bound to the legal system. The organization is answerable only to the Commandant, the Grand Admirals and the Premier. Therefore, they are able to launch an operation without evidence and be judge, jury, and executioner.

This extra-judicial nature also means that they have far more than just PA and fancy gear. It means some are quite well versed in assassination and psychological warfare. Poison here, mysterious accident there, hacked computers everywhere, to name a few methods they can employ that no police could do.

The IPG further condescends upon the police force in general. The NPF historically has officers on the take, be it from crime lords or street gangs. No matter how hard they try, that sort of institutionalized graft is difficult to break down. The IPG is screened heavily and any thing that smacks of disloyalty to Nepleslia is an instant disqualifier for a candidate. There are times when the IPG act without even informing the police until after the fact because they do not trust the police to handle it correctly or to keep the secret.

This is a task force. Task Forces are only set up for a specific purpose - bring down this operation, find and rescue that missing family, investigate and stop some violent crime spree targeting Neppies.

This needs direction. And BloodyScarlet has to be the one to set it.

I'm getting mixed messages here, should I mention the IPG in the wiki or not?

Yea I will be the one to set up what the IATF.

bring down this operation, find and rescue that missing family, investigate and stop some violent crime spree targeting Neppies.

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that is what I was actually planning to do this them, as a task force they normally hunt bigger people, Like @Wes said SEAL teams, going after the bosses and high ups in the gangs.

The CFU would be the ones where it is like a very small squad or maybe one person going into a gang or cartel and make their way through, they would spend anything from months to years in one gang until they have all the evidance they need for bust the high ups.

The FIST would be the the ones who would be targeting known bases, warehouse and other places for raiding and taking down priority targets, they would also be investigating missing persons and all the main missions.

I was thinking of setting the plot around the FIST and if someone doesn't post or has to go for personal reasons like they do in the other plots, that person gets stationed somewhere else, that person would be put in the CFU so has no contact to the IATF until they want to come back.

Sorry I haven't said anything till now, I got swamped with work so have only aswered the PMs and Plots I was in, I am deeply sorry for that.

This is all I have thought about the the moment, the CFU may not be a good plot devices as normally in those cases it is one person, but the FIST as the main Task Force area would be the best plot out of the two.

With the way you guys are describing the IPG, the hole the IATF fills is more of an ability to include a plot than anything. If anyone tried making an IPG plot, there wouldn't be any actual conflict in it. No potential threat could challenge them and stand a chance. Yeah, a civilian organization such as the IATF may not be as effective as the IPG, but with the IATF, you get a fight instead of a slaughter.

Honest question. How does the black syndicate even exist anymore since the IPG is so over powered.

My first guess for Black Syndicate's survival would be that power does not equate directly into effectiveness. Even if the IPG can shoot first ask questions later, they still gotta know who to shoot if they plan on not significantly dropping Neps population. My second guess would be that despite the Black Syndicate being so big they are not an actual big enough threat to the nation of Nepleslia enough for the IPG to dedicate to their total eradication.

This of course is just speculation. I'm just starting to really read up on IPG related stuff as I'm in the process of creating a character from them, so don't take my words as gospel.