Ketsurui Samurai Dissolution

[CadetNewb]

It's recently come up in RP that the Ketsurui Samurai are to be terminated, and though I enjoy this great twist in Fred's great plot, I also feel rather sad. I'm under the impression that Wes had given the go ahead for this behind the scenes, but of course, I am not totally sure. Even then, I'd wish the Samurai would remain in Yamatai, since they're a cultural cornerstone of the faction. I do understand that they have various issues and problems, but I'd rather fix those than Order 66 them.

From what I understand, they're supposed to be the protectors of the royal family, and they are currently not doing that, with errant characters going about and doing various other things. In addition to that, the samurai are overpowered to the point that they're untouchable, breaking the suspension of disbelief in stories, as well as being rather anti-climatic in combat.

I could be wrong - and if I am, I'd be very glad to hear what's really going on - but I think these problems could be solved with some creative thinking.

EDIT:

I just realized I should have checked the plot planning thread sooner. Yes, Wes has given the green light for this. Yes, the Ketsurui Samurai are going to be no more, but, potentially renewed as well. Even then, will the rest of us get to have any input on how they'll be rebuilt?

 

[Wes]

Back in 2013 I suggested getting rid of the samurai and letting the Star Army do their job, because I was unsatisfied with how they were being played (particularly in Eucharis RP where they kept disappearing on us, and because people kept making increasingly nonstandard ones) and I felt the current nature of them was too complicated. Fred talked me out of it and offered another solution which was a plot arc where they got dishonored and were disbanded or rebuilt from the ground up afterwards. Fred plots take a long time to unfold and now 4 years later the plot arc is actually happening. Because there is still interest in playing them a rebuilding option seems preferable from an admin standpoint but from an IC standpoint many of the big Star Army figures and Ketsuruis simply dislike them and want them gone. For example Yui and Hanako have not had samurai bodyguards for years.

 

[Wes]

I am not entirely sure what is going on in Fred's plot but a phasing out of the samurai would work like this, ideally for me:

• The Star Army would announce plans to phase them out a reasonable time in advance, like a year.
• Recruiting/making new samurai would stop
  
• All the samurai we felt we could trust would get offers (e.g. contracts) to join the regular Star Army at equivalent ranks.
• After the transition time ends, the Ketsurui samurai organization would go to being a private group under the Ketsurui Clan. It would no longer be part of the Star Army. In other words it would then be like any other Yamataian samurai group or private security force. They could still protect the Ketsurui who wanted them.

 

[Immortal Cyan]

If the samurai were dissolved in late YE 38, then why are we just now hearing about this development? I have been wanting to play a samurai for a few months now, and the answers I have received to my inquiries about playing one have mostly ranged from "you need more experience" to "wait". In my opinion, the community should have known that the samurai were being disbanded before I even joined SARP back in April of this year.

This just seems like poor transparency to me.

 

[paladinrpg]

While I understand the need and the reasoning behind this decision, now that I've gotten more details than gut reactions, I do agree that we need a dialogue about how they will be rebuilt, or at the very least... to create a generally agreed upon ruleset for making "Ronin", so that those who wish to play a samurai past their sunset could find a compromise so that they could keep their gear/martial skills/etc but not be in an overpowered Eihei body for example (those would be only for the Samurai who remain as 'palace guards' or what have you). A good example is my old character on the Eucharis Hashimoto Umeshu, who was a former samurai trainee who went onto become a Star Army officer quite successfully.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

The Samurai, in short, are the most broken tool for players to utilize, and are not portrayed correctly. Come multiple players who have been on the site, the Samurai are meant to be borderline antisocial.

• They are a face of stoicism and discapline
• They are professional even in the face of adversity and don't lose their temper
• They do not argue over petty details
• They don't strive to be cute or sweet
• They are souly meant to be the bodyguards of the Ketsuri
• They do not allow themselves to appear even remotely unaware among non-Samurai
• They do not eat around non-Samurai
• They do not sleep around non-Samurai
• You are nothing but a wall for the Ketsuri to keep them safe

Seriously, the fact that the big players of the Ketsuri family don't use Samurai for defense anymore is a very clear indication that they are no longer needed. Not to mention there are Ketsuri off doing absolutely nothing. Literally nothing. I would like to note here, that a Ronin is a Samurai who lost their master either by their master dying, or them being fired and not committing suicide. It is a mark of great shame and they often become Mercenaries or Bandits

This doesn't mean you can't play a Yamataian Samurai. You can /be/ a Samurai in mentality, you just won't have the hilariously overpowered Neko Body and you won't be called a "Ketsuri"

This doesn't stop you from being a Samurai. Just stops you from being possibly the most broken thing even close to possible for players to obtain.

Has my support completely.

 

[Wes]

Fred's plot, which involved the traitor samurai attacking the Empress (the IC reason to disband or reform the samurai), is not caught up to YE 39 yet.

 

[Immortal Cyan]

Fred's plot, which involved the traitor samurai attacking the Empress (the IC reason to disband or reform the samurai), is not caught up to YE 39 yet.

I understand that. However, if his plot can not keep up with the IC/OOC timeline, then it should not be allowed to have a major/game changing impact on the setting and its elements.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

I understand that. However, if his plot can not keep up with the IC/OOC timeline, then it should not be allowed to have a major/game changing impact on the setting and its elements.

There is nothing about Fred's plot that is stopping you from playing a Samurai Immortal. Unless you want to play the Broken things the Ketsuri are. So unless you want to be, possible the most broken, powerful, neko on the site, there is nothing about this that affects you playing soeone who is a Samurai.

 

[Immortal Cyan]

There is nothing about Fred's plot that is stopping you from playing a Samurai Immortal. Unless you want to play the Broken things the Ketsuri are. So unless you want to be, possible the most broken, powerful, neko on the site, there is nothing about this that affects you playing soeone who is a Samurai.

I am failing to see how exactly the Eihei body is overpowered. Given that most combat in SARP takes place in power armor, that fact alone renders most of the Eihei abilities as minor redundancies or unusable in most situations. For example, Mindy armors utilize plates of interlocking zesuaium for defense. If anything manages to penetrate or burn through zesuaium, then more than likely, it won't have much trouble killing the pilot of the armor, regardless of whether or not they have organic armor.

Skin-based optic camouflage, skin vision, increased strength, and, external hemosynthesis are also rendered redundant and/or useless in power armor combat, as the Mindy already has those features or their advantages are nullified in power armor combat.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

I am failing to see how exactly the Eihei body is overpowered. Given that most combat in SARP takes place in power armor, that fact alone renders most of the Eihei abilities as minor redundancies or unusable in most situations. For example, Mindy armors utilize plates of interlocking zesuaium for defense. If anything manages to penetrate or burn through zesuaium, then more than likely, it won't have much trouble killing the pilot of the armor, regardless of whether or not they have organic armor.

Skin-based optic camouflage, skin vision, increased strength, and, external hemosynthesis are also rendered redundant and/or useless in power armor combat, as the Mindy already has those features or their advantages are nullified in power armor combat.

So are you saying without the Ehei body you just lose interest in the Ketsuri?

Also, from every interaction I have had with Samurai, they are portrayed through writing to be hilariously broken. That's through Roleplay in the last two years btw.

The bigger question should be, why do you need to play a Ketsuri Samurai? Why would you play a character that is literally bound by honour to not interact with other people? To view others as little? Worthless? ot to your standard? Not worth your time or respect? So much so that you will not eat, sleep, bath, or in general interact other than when you have too with them if they aren't Samurai?

If so, are you planning on running an all Samurai plot?

For the record, Immortal, I am only arguing with you because I think I could take your eyes out and cut off all your fingers, and you would still be able to write a better character not using the "Ketsuri Samurai" crutch. Just make someone like William. They follow the way of the Samurai, but they aren't a Samurai. They are just a Nepleslian boy.

 

[Jack Pine]

My character joining the Kaiyo I was wanting to develop in a Samurai/Ronin esque manner but he's human, is this still possible or will I be forced to do something else?

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

My character joining the Kaiyo I was wanting to develop in a Samurai/Ronin esque manner but he's human, is this still possible or will I be forced to do something else?

If you are human ou cannot be a Ketsuri Samurai. This is specifically about Ketsuri Samurai. You can still be a Samurai, just not a Ketsuri Samurai.

 

[Jack Pine]

That's fine, I just wanted to check and get a clarification on that

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

@Fred @Doshii Jun @Wes I would like to make sure what I have been told about how the Ketsurui Samurai act is correct. From what I have been told from a LOT of Veterans is that they are NOT people friendly. Perhaps in an All Samurai plot they would be fine but if they aren't in an all Samurai plot then it becomes increasingly difficult to downright impossible for them to interact with common everyday people. They aren't meant to be the romanticized Samurai of folk tales; they are meant to be killing machine tools at the beck and call of the Ketsurui Clan members.

 

[Wes]

Just read the wiki page. It is the canon.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

Just read the wiki page. It is the canon.

So the canon is that Ketsurui Samurai are basically what I described Wes?

 

[CadetNewb]

From what I understand, the most recent and current portrayals are not accurate to the Ketsurui Samurai at all. If we're going to have a rebirth of the organization, whether the public knows of this or not IC, we may want to focus on improving standards and defining them more clearly. I think Edto simply wants to know if what he was told about what the current Samurai was correct, and I admit I'd like to know too. We'd need to know that first before remaking them after all. I also would like to point out that we have some returning players as well, so getting their feedback may help us and Fred out too.

 

[raz]

I will not be respecting the samurai dissolution in Fred's plot since it's almost entirely unworkable with already established roleplay. Kaiyo players should treat Rei no differently; it's not like anyone would suddenly remember she'd actually been disgraced for a year+ out of the blue.

 

[CadetNewb]

Considering that we don't know what the twists and turns in Fred's plot will turn out to be yet, it's correct to do just that. Right now, we know that IC, the change either happened covertly, or has yet to be finalized and carried out overtly. OOC though, we all know this is something Wes wants and has given the green light for. Right now, I'd like to identify what the Ketsurui Samurai are supposed to be, and what a correct portrayal is before figuring out what they'll become in the future. Edto gave his impression of what that is, but if you could give feedback Wes, that'd be great.