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Mecha in SAoY
- Thread starter ShotJon
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Amaryllis
Inactive Member
You're saying you don't want to put in hundreds of hours of simulation training with her for every possible violent encounter so she learns your tendencies so well she can anticipate your needs before you realize them?
Also, I hope this is how you get synched up with whatever you guys make. Or, if you wanted to be really cool you'd need a naked princess absorbed by your mecha to face you the entire time you pilot it and the two of you would need to be engulfed in its tentacles. That's only if you want to be really cool though. Preferrably it'd be a Lorath princess because it could have bunny ears or something.
A mecha two people pilot would be super sick not even lying. Then I could imagine it's Initial D every time it's used.
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OsakanOne
Retired Member
Me too, on so many levels.
Given that Metal Gear 84 is able to operate as either bipedal humanoid or as its conventional chicken walker mode, there's proof that somewhere in this mess is a concept that suits everyone. Its an incredibly simple transformation thats literally just the equivalent of arching your back and folding the arms out and the head on top.
This is honestly not hard to do at all, as I've proven playing with other concepts similar to this in the past:
First this old potato:
And here a slightly more grown up, albiet not particularly elegant version of it.
Tidying it up and adding an ED209 like mode and a humanoid mode really isn't that much work.
The trick is mostly going to be in the hips, as they say, as well as the thighs. I'd need to know the exact scaling I'd be working at so I know how much give and play there is, then from there develop joints that meet the needs. If this thing is taller than 1.8 meters, what is currently the thighs can become a sort of prototypical hip joint, kind of like the sliding rail on Rex between its T-axis crotch block and the thigh blocks, which affords it some wriggle and give the same way human joints work allowing its legs to have enough give and take when walking and allowing some stability affordance compensation when walking given how small its feet are.
Again, what's really needed is a spec. A cold hard spec.
Height. Weight. Loadout. Mobility. Theatre. Envelope. Duration. Logistics. Characteristics. Fuel. Technologies. Opponents. Cost. Manufacturing. Affordane. User. Collaboration. Telemetrics. Information sharing, information control.
Not "this is what it uses" so much as "I need it to do this without being this, while doing this".
Kind of like you ask with any designer, really.
The problem is you don't know what you want.
I can make it do two things but I can't make it BE three things, you know?
Before you know it we'll be putting screen doors on it so the men can stick out their guns and shoot people.
Become less indecisive.
Given that Metal Gear 84 is able to operate as either bipedal humanoid or as its conventional chicken walker mode, there's proof that somewhere in this mess is a concept that suits everyone. Its an incredibly simple transformation thats literally just the equivalent of arching your back and folding the arms out and the head on top.
This is honestly not hard to do at all, as I've proven playing with other concepts similar to this in the past:
First this old potato:
And here a slightly more grown up, albiet not particularly elegant version of it.
Tidying it up and adding an ED209 like mode and a humanoid mode really isn't that much work.
The trick is mostly going to be in the hips, as they say, as well as the thighs. I'd need to know the exact scaling I'd be working at so I know how much give and play there is, then from there develop joints that meet the needs. If this thing is taller than 1.8 meters, what is currently the thighs can become a sort of prototypical hip joint, kind of like the sliding rail on Rex between its T-axis crotch block and the thigh blocks, which affords it some wriggle and give the same way human joints work allowing its legs to have enough give and take when walking and allowing some stability affordance compensation when walking given how small its feet are.
Again, what's really needed is a spec. A cold hard spec.
Height. Weight. Loadout. Mobility. Theatre. Envelope. Duration. Logistics. Characteristics. Fuel. Technologies. Opponents. Cost. Manufacturing. Affordane. User. Collaboration. Telemetrics. Information sharing, information control.
Not "this is what it uses" so much as "I need it to do this without being this, while doing this".
Kind of like you ask with any designer, really.
The problem is you don't know what you want.
I can make it do two things but I can't make it BE three things, you know?
Before you know it we'll be putting screen doors on it so the men can stick out their guns and shoot people.
Become less indecisive.
OsakanOne
Retired Member
Well, humans don't have chicken legs generally. So then there's the option of an enclosed cockpit or a split cockpit. A split is like having a power-armor hang off the front like a baby-carrier. Another option is to add a third stage to the leg running off the feet, at which point you may as well just issue special equipment for existing Yamataian frames given the gear they can already support on their leg hardpoints: It would be like a stocking over the knee and shin down with a foot a further half meter down then gunpods either sides of the shoulders supported on some sort of armature mounted where the backpack goes.
I played with this concept like two years ago, nicknamed the powerplus (I've got paintings somewhere, idk where) and nobody was interested.
What's been outlined at this point is something like Metal Gear Rex at the scale of ED209 "that a person can fit in", which is a paradox because unless they're in a deeply painful fetal position (here's looking at you, Zentradi battle-pods) OR there's some partial pilot/machine integration with the pilot's joints forming some of those of the machine, it isn't going to work.
Wes has no idea what he wants. It fluctuates every few months. And what the players want has been nearly solid for a few years now.
Flat out? Big robots are VERY fun to roleplay. But the problem is they stiffle your ability to do the "get out and talk" parts of the story that are basically the backbone of why PA combat exists so those parts are nearly seamless.
What you honestly want is something that's sometimes a small frame, sometimes a robot and a pilot can easily disembark from it in a PA. Plugged together, both get a really sharp performance boost. Otherwise, the frame is a packhorse/AWACS/NLOS package. The idea is it has to some how be greater than the sum of its parts.
For bonus points, the platform is also easily able to be either humanoid or chicken-walker like, which if you follow exoskeletal designstyles is super simple to do with most of the hard work for that in the shoulders and legs which are very forgiving areas of design to work with.
Ultimately we need a cold hard spec.
We need to know what the demands are of players and GMs and see where those results cluster. They'll become two or three pockets of different requirements or desires. From there, something can finally be done.
What it boils down to is you need a machine someone can have a really unnerving conversation in without having to climb out. That they can eat their lunch inside, have a conversation in and see face to face with those around them.
It almost seems like what you really want is airborne cavalry. But those metaphors don't work anymore.
War. Has changed.
I played with this concept like two years ago, nicknamed the powerplus (I've got paintings somewhere, idk where) and nobody was interested.
What's been outlined at this point is something like Metal Gear Rex at the scale of ED209 "that a person can fit in", which is a paradox because unless they're in a deeply painful fetal position (here's looking at you, Zentradi battle-pods) OR there's some partial pilot/machine integration with the pilot's joints forming some of those of the machine, it isn't going to work.
Wes has no idea what he wants. It fluctuates every few months. And what the players want has been nearly solid for a few years now.
Flat out? Big robots are VERY fun to roleplay. But the problem is they stiffle your ability to do the "get out and talk" parts of the story that are basically the backbone of why PA combat exists so those parts are nearly seamless.
What you honestly want is something that's sometimes a small frame, sometimes a robot and a pilot can easily disembark from it in a PA. Plugged together, both get a really sharp performance boost. Otherwise, the frame is a packhorse/AWACS/NLOS package. The idea is it has to some how be greater than the sum of its parts.
For bonus points, the platform is also easily able to be either humanoid or chicken-walker like, which if you follow exoskeletal designstyles is super simple to do with most of the hard work for that in the shoulders and legs which are very forgiving areas of design to work with.
Ultimately we need a cold hard spec.
We need to know what the demands are of players and GMs and see where those results cluster. They'll become two or three pockets of different requirements or desires. From there, something can finally be done.
What it boils down to is you need a machine someone can have a really unnerving conversation in without having to climb out. That they can eat their lunch inside, have a conversation in and see face to face with those around them.
It almost seems like what you really want is airborne cavalry. But those metaphors don't work anymore.
War. Has changed.
Firebrand
Inactive Member
Well, hold up. I think there's a compromise between full size robot, Western style walkers, and powered armor.
I mean, personally, I think that mecha in the style of the Late Universal Century, where everything was smaller and faster and way more powerful, would fit the SAOY more than a western style chicken walker. But we could also go the way of 2300 AD, with its Combat Walkers. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Articles/CW/CW.htm
But the simple truth of the matter is that I don't think that giant robots really fit Star Army, from what I've seen. The Niche that mecha fill in something like Gundam, Dougram, Macross, Battletech, or Heavy Gear is filled here by Powered Armor; and I think mecha would clash with that.
Of course there are exceptions: The Iromakuanhe don't have the advanced miniaturization of everyone else, and they rely more heavily on mecha tropes, so for them a giant robot fits.
I think the closest thing to a giant robot the SAOY could be realistically expected to use would be something like a scaled down KIRIE/KEIKO merged with the MCAS: A heavy, customizable powered armor meant for high intensity operations similar to the fierce ground fighting seen during the Second Mishhu war, with the added functionality of being an analogue to an MBT or Mobile Gun System for forces which don't have the space for a tank, like many PC Starships.
I mean, personally, I think that mecha in the style of the Late Universal Century, where everything was smaller and faster and way more powerful, would fit the SAOY more than a western style chicken walker. But we could also go the way of 2300 AD, with its Combat Walkers. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Articles/CW/CW.htm
But the simple truth of the matter is that I don't think that giant robots really fit Star Army, from what I've seen. The Niche that mecha fill in something like Gundam, Dougram, Macross, Battletech, or Heavy Gear is filled here by Powered Armor; and I think mecha would clash with that.
Of course there are exceptions: The Iromakuanhe don't have the advanced miniaturization of everyone else, and they rely more heavily on mecha tropes, so for them a giant robot fits.
I think the closest thing to a giant robot the SAOY could be realistically expected to use would be something like a scaled down KIRIE/KEIKO merged with the MCAS: A heavy, customizable powered armor meant for high intensity operations similar to the fierce ground fighting seen during the Second Mishhu war, with the added functionality of being an analogue to an MBT or Mobile Gun System for forces which don't have the space for a tank, like many PC Starships.
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Firebrand
Inactive Member
Perhaps, if there was ever going to be a Modern version of the Mindy 1H... What if you modified the dual aetheric beam cannons into something a bit more versatile.
My thought is that you make a new version that can be quickly swapped in an armory or PA bay between twp separate modes: Plasma and Aether. Aether mode would be the same while Plasma would be used on the ground and when Aether isn't available.
I also have to wonder, perhaps there -is- a place for kinetic weapons in the SAoY. As a sort of way to deal with heavily armored PA by way of excessive kinetic force? Could be useful against NMX.
My thought is that you make a new version that can be quickly swapped in an armory or PA bay between twp separate modes: Plasma and Aether. Aether mode would be the same while Plasma would be used on the ground and when Aether isn't available.
I also have to wonder, perhaps there -is- a place for kinetic weapons in the SAoY. As a sort of way to deal with heavily armored PA by way of excessive kinetic force? Could be useful against NMX.
I think kinetic weapons are fine in Yamatai. The Mindy has long had a shoulder railgun and Yamatai uses chainguns on things like STVs. Kinetic weapons are good for bypassing power armor's protective abilities with sheer force.
Aendri
Inactive Member
You seem to be misunderstanding what he means when he says "bypassing" in this instance. He's talking about sheer mass of fire or blunt force trauma from the larger weapons overwhelming their defenses, not just magically skipping around them. A punch is still a punch, and can't even come close to comparing to the impact of a PA grade weapon of any sort.
Firebrand
Inactive Member
I just had a stupid thought that nobody's going to care about.
One of Yamatai's major themes and inspirations is, and I'm just paraphrasing here: "80's sci-fi anime". Now that's well and good, but do you know what I think of when I think of 80's sci-fi anime? I think of the real robot boom that occured during the decade: VOTOMS, Layzner, Z-ZZ Gundam and CCA, Dougram, Dragonar, so many shows.
One of Yamatai's major themes and inspirations is, and I'm just paraphrasing here: "80's sci-fi anime". Now that's well and good, but do you know what I think of when I think of 80's sci-fi anime? I think of the real robot boom that occured during the decade: VOTOMS, Layzner, Z-ZZ Gundam and CCA, Dougram, Dragonar, so many shows.
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