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Mecha in SAoY

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It's the other way around. They were allowed to be their own faction on the basis of them having two active plots at the time.

If someone wants to make a new starfighter plot, I'd be interested in it. But I can't just snap my fingers and create a fighter plot. I barely have time to run the Eucharis so I can't do it myself either. The faction can only offer what someone are willing to GM. You're suggesting making more types of units, which I'll consider, but we don't have the GMs to actually run all those types of units.

Technical note: The Star Army doesn't have power armor pilots; it has infantry with power armor. Armor is something you wear.
 
I don't mean to imply that you or any other FM should just throw out a plot to try to cater to one of these expanded fields. I know it's something that has to be thought out and GMs have their hands full. I'm just saying consider putting the resources into play that allow for the option. Like for example(purely theoretical) Shotjohn wants mecha in SAoY, if there were already some SAoY mecha, then it'd be easy for him to start a plot for it. (again just theoretical, and only trying to show what I'm getting at, not saying that you need to put in mecha or anything)

As for the technical thing, I call them 'pilots' to differentiate their 'skill set' from a standard soldier or PA/PS soldier that doesn't have vehicle like maneuverability levels.
 
I'd rather the Star Army be based on the Star Army's actual needs than introducing stuff we don't need just to cater to whatever the trend of the moment is. I remember we had the same arguments when World of Tanks came out and suddenly there was a push to put tracked tanks in the Star Army and when the plot was over they basically disappeared.

And even unarmored Nekovalkyrja have a vehicle-like level of maneuverability, Syaoran! :)
 
Well if you think that, then it's fine. In the end Factions have their own identity to maintain. I can't ask more than for it to be thought about.

Yeah Nekos are 'flesh pilots' in my book XD
 
Fred's probably right in that there was a ton of miscommunication.

One thing for certain is that there was never any 'Anti-Yamatai' strategy or sentiment IC or OOC, and I'm sorry if you felt that way Wes. We were simply trying to do what was best for Origin, and did not believe that it had somehow harmed Yamatai in any way. Besides having it so that people viewed the company as being for anyone and not any one faction (something that actually did give us trouble from time to time when developing gear), there was also IC fact to deal with too. We were no longer based in Tami due to the NMX war, and were instead based off of Dawn Station out in Aki; unclaimed space. Unlike on Earth, we didn't have to have our headquarters be - and nor was it - based in any nation anymore. Because of this, Kai and I saw Origin as its own thing since we both worked hard on it ourselves.

I can't speak on Kai's behalf, but for me, the fact that by moving Origin out in the forums removed civilian plots from Yamatai was something that I had never, ever considered, and it's one that I only know now because you've just told me. If I had known this was what bothered you about it, I would have been given pause. Instead, all I saw during the time was resistance to the idea of us making Origin independent in the forums, which made no sense from my perspective.

To me, making the move to be Independent made sense in every way, especially because we believed that nothing changed IC for us or anyone else; the forum move was merely making official what was already fact. There was never any intent against Yamatai, because iff I was against Yamatai, and felt that Origin was against Yamatai, I would have never made the Type 35 series of ground vehicles. I made those specifically because I felt that there was a gap in Yamatai's inventory when it came to drawn out ground campaigns. However, with what was said in this thread, that's apparently not the case, and Origin is blacklisted. We've been getting/feeling friction from time to time, but never really got why. It made no sense IC. Now that it's been said, this completely caught me by surprise. I know it caught Fred and some others the same way.

*****

In regards to getting something for Yamatai, I'm sad to say that it's really an FM decision. I'm of the belief that an FM should cater to his or her players so that they have fun, but only so long as it's within the vision that the FM has for said faction. If the FM does not feel something fits a faction, then it doesn't. The only way to even push the issue is to basically do a 'petition' and gather up players who not only desire whatever it is, but also feel that it fits said faction. On top of convincing said FM of this same thing. It's the best that can be done short of a vote.

Now, with mechs, frames and vehicles of the setting in general however, I don't think there's any In-Character justification to how under-powered they've been portrayed. Even with the miniaturization theory, there's nothing stopping one of these from being made to the same technological level as that used in a power armor. If a fusion reactor that is typically the size of a room is miniaturized to the size of a baseball to fit in a power armor, what is stopping a technologically equal fusion reactor which is the size of a house from being miniaturized to the point it's the size of a yoga ball? If a plasma projector or particle accelerator that's normally the size of Emma Watts can be miniaturized to the point it's used as a rifle, what's stopping a technologically equal plasma projector the size of an entire freight train and all its cars from being miniaturized into something the size of a light post? In fact, what's keeping six inches of Duranium, Yamataium or Nerimium from only being a little more than twice the effectiveness of a single inch that's used on a power armor when both are of the same quality?

Going off of this and how they're all built as best as possible for their size, the fusion reactor that's the size of a yoga ball should have a proportionately higher output than the fusion reactor that's the size of a baseball. The plasma projector that's the size of a light post should cause proportionately more damage than the one that's the size of Kampfer's new HK91, which I'm totally jelly of. The six inches of homogeneous armor plate should be six times more effective than the one inch of homogeneous armor that's of exact same material and quality.

I don't think there's really anything keeping us from having these things IC. If anything, it's OOC.
 
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I proposed a revised damage scale that would've helped fix that. This disparity could've been in the past already. But when I asked for assistance as to how to better word said guidelines to be better accessible for all parties, all I got was cold shoulders.

Therefore, I'm not at all symnpathetic about how people feel mecha are treated unfairly by the present damage scale and all that. All the arguments raised make sense, but as long as the people involved arent even willing to help themselves... well, I've only crocodile tears to shed over this.
 
I'm sorry Fred, but IIRC, there were simply as many ideas to fix the DR system as there were people trying to help. And that's on top of any opposition against it too. I mean, your proposal was a complete overhaul. Meanwhile, Kai wanted to implement an entirely new rating for vehicles and mechs that would fit in between PA and Ships for an example. Me? I just wanted to give frames just a few more points to their firepower and a whole lot more to their health. Each option had its benefits and drawbacks, and we simply couldn't agree on what to do.

Just that the current system was absolutely horrible.
 
All right I can see when I am beaten, since through this all thread I was pretty much only one who liked the idea of having mecha units as option in SAoY then it is time to let it go. SAoY is finally Wes' show so it is up to him. I still believe that Mecha could be worked into SAoY and hopefully that will stay in memory and next time, people think about doing something with SAoY they can think "Well we might see if we can put a mecha in since that nice dude ShotJon wanted them some time ago."

As for what you said Fred, I absolutely agree with you. Mecha could not be used by every plot. I myself would look at Byakuren and tell myself, Mecha in this plot would be now silly. But still especially since mecha are the way they are in SARP, aka not a 30 meters tall towering beast of doom, but rather oversized Power Armour with extra guns, I think it could work well along PAs. After all most Frames are between 4-8 meters tall with only a little bit extra armour, what works for them are stronger shields and lot of guns, but that is it. Platoon of PAs can bring down mecha as well.

So yeah in the end. Are mecha needed? No. They sadly are not. Would it be awesome to have them? Yes, I think it would be.
 
ShotJon, I'm pretty sure you're not the only one that feels that way about mechs or frames in the SAoY, and you're still free to talk and discuss them. Honestly, the biggest hurdle against them besides the poor DR system at hand is how some people view them. Not only do they have an important role to play, but even if they were introduced, and at proper levels of effectiveness, they simply wouldn't take the spotlight from power armor at all. At the most, they'd just be another tool for the GM to use when the situation and mood permits. The only exception to that would be if a plot was specifically focused on them. Otherwise, PA would reign King. Or in Yamatai, Empress.

At the very least, this thread is still handy to talk about them in general though.
 
When it comes to fighting against mecha, Yamatai's doctrine is to kill the mecha with air support or starship guns from above. Preferably we'd have some sort of gunship for this (I'm looking for designs, as well as ones for a troop transport) but for now the idea is that every 20 soldiers should get a starfighter flying over them, shooting at stuff for them.

Is this technique used against fighters also?
 
Not only do they have an important role to play
What role do you think they have?
Is this technique used against fighters also?
Are you asking if we fight enemy starfighters using ground infantry? No, we fight starfighters with starfighters.
 
I'm asking: The bombardment techniques that you use to deal with mecha from above as you described earlier:

Do they work against fighters in atmos or low orbit?
 
Mecha has a clear and easy to see role. They are fire support. Destruction and fire support. Sure with current rules for tech they are not as badarse as perhaps they should be, they are quite comparable to very heavy PA, but for me that is fine. BUT. Their size allows put a lof of firepower on them. PA usually has a gun in hands, extra gun on shoulder and some small missile pods. That is good for PA vs PA fight, but on mecha you can put a lot more. Mini-missile pods? PA can have like 20 rounds in one, Mecha can have one with 200 hundred. Fun Railgun on shoulder for PA? Nice. Mecha can have a rail-cannon on its shoulder. Or where PA has 12 rounds for its railgun, Mecha can have hundreds of rounds. Those are just some examples. They even outgun most tanks. Tank as we have them have one very big gun and that is it. What works for tanks is low profile, good armour and shields. Mecha do not have low profile, but they still can have good shields and lots of armour (25 structure points easy) so even if 8 meters tall humanoid figure sticks out it can take beating and more then anything it can dish out a beating.

Sure with the way things are now, you cannot put more than one gun that does SDR2 gun and that gun would be very limiting, but you can put several weapons which are around ADR3 and 4 on the mecha easily and with enough ammunition, should ammo be required.

TLDR, mecha is fire support. It can cover advancing PAs, it can make enemy keep their heads down and it can go toe to toe with enemy mecha any time of day. And it can work in cities, in bad weather and even can do things like capturing hangars or larger underground bases, because 8 meters is not THAT much limiting. Entrances to underground bases are made so vehicles can go in and that means large entrance tunnel and at the end of the tunnel is most heavily defended part. Mechas can go there and deal with it better then PA, especially since they can go there WITH Pa, which starfighter cannot.

-Osaka, Wes noted that orbital bombardment is only one of support measures. Each unit of PAs should have by his standarts a single fighter unit to support it. Fighters as far as I know can fight other fighters.
 
I think part of the reason it's hard to see a role for Mecha for some people is how we treat PAs. I've seen some things comparing PA to tanks, and yeah they're armored like tanks and have fire power like thanks. But that's when you loo at it from the perspective of the modern armaments. In reality, to the SARP-verse I would think PA are seen more a heavy infantry and/or cavalry depending on the armor type. The actual 'role' of tanks and artillery seem to be fading away because PA keep being seen as 'tanks'. A mecha is a large mobile weapons platform, that just so happens to be shaped like a human, but in the end it's essentially a tank or artillery depending on the design.

As Shotjohn said, Mehca can load -a lot- of weapons. Even if PA and Mecha have the same damage scale, there is no way you can stick as man weapons on a PA as a Mecha. PA don't even carry around full sized ordinance anymore I think I've seen like 1 or 2 types of mini-missile that could level a building with less than five of them fired at a structure.

TLDR; I think PA should be seen as heavy infantry, and the 'tank' and artillery roles coudl be filled with vehicles and mecha.
 
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Mecha are very much a jack of all trades: they excel in no role unless they are specifically specialized and their large size makes them highly observable: Either their mobility, some sort of active stealth, defense or pre-emptive offense has to be up to the job or they flat out have no place on the battlefield.

I can see in my mind what I define as a sort of two-crew micro-gunship able to tilt and aim its primary weapons on gimball, move like a fighter and hit the ground really hard with really powerful landing gear similar to how legs work. It would essentially be an evolution of the helicopter gunship with a single wide flattish hull like a fighter to reduce its headon profile but with its cockpit set somewhere into its centre of mass, legs folded up underneath and its arms forward with its main weapons.

By forgoing internal decks, it has room for a bigger powerplant and would sit somewhere in size between a gunship and a contemporary (not SARP era micro-) fighter. I figure its maintenance demands would mean it would have to operate as part of a battle-group or purely for inter system defenses.
 
Okay, this is what I have been wanting: a reason why the Star Army should use mecha that includes a defined role that fits into our current order of battle. A mecha, especially one with gunship-like hovering and mobility, used for direct close-in fire support, is one of those and would be welcome. Especially if it looked sexy. Basically in the far future of Star Army, tanks, gunships, and mecha may have blended together into floating armored death machines, and that's what I'd like to see. Perhaps even manned by mini nekos.
 
Actually that is not a bad idea. Mecha's arek now for their transformation thingie, like fighter chaning to mecha is silly (even if it is cool) but gunship changing to mecha and vice versa that makes sense. Gunships are not know too much about their speed (they are not slow but compare a Raptor and Apache gunship and well... yeah), they can ahve armour and above all they have lots and lots and lots of gun.

Of course this would make it so the mecha pilot would have to be way more specialised. But yeah I can totally see this putting out airsupport, then suddenly enemy has a lot of AA, so it just transforms and lands and go about on foot, maybe using the engines on its back as booster pack for some extra mobility on groud. (JETPACK HOOOOOOOO!) Besides in City battle on foot is better then in flight mode since the building limits your gunship, but mecha can just run around and shoot up, take cover behind corner of the buildings and stuff like that.
 
While it doesn't look like a gunship, there is the Gekido that can get a pretty rather 'gunship' like feel to it. I just recently got the Primal Fury System approved for it, and while at the moment it doesn't have crazy huge fire power, it came with producing the Gekido Kai, which has essentially all the hard points of a Mindy plus more. You could defiantly kit the thing out with a crazy arsenal like Zaku Amazing or an armored core.
 
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