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Nepleslians Have a Smoking Problem

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Wes

Wes

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Before Nepleslia was independent, cigarettes were essentially unheard of in the SARPiverse. It's the far future, and such moronic things were left behind long ago. But since then, Nepleslia has slowly turned into this hellish smoking area until now, where I can't even read a forum thread outside of Yamatai without reading a cigarette reference. People are making characters smoke on the premise that it makes them more badass or cool (they don't).

Look, I can't stand smoking. I hate having to smell the stench when I walk my dog. I hate having to walk through the cancer-fog outside of buildings to get inside. I hate it when kids come into my classroom reeking. I hate how it kills thousands yearly and is a giant drain on the medical system. Growing up with a surgeon as a dad I spent a lot of time around hospitals and saw cancer victims, the people the holes in their throats trying to smoke through them, the blackened lungs. I hate how addicts like my cousin Justin are too weak to stop smoking even though it's poisoning his toddlers he's raising, and that those kids will get used to it and probably turn into smokers themselves. So I do not want to run a site that in any way promotes smoking.

There are any number of ways that Nepleslia can and does contrast with Yamatai without smoking being one of them. It's ridiculous, and it's not futuristic, it's outdated. We need a plan to get this crap under control.

I think the first step is a ban on all character art featuring cigarettes or imitation cigarettes. Secondly, Nepleslia needs to consider some IC reforms to Nepleslian culture and/or law with the aim of curbing it so that smokers aren't seen as the "norm" for Nepleslia in the way that cybernetics are.
 
No. Flat out, no. If you don't want to depict a character smoking, that's your choice. If you want to ban smoking in your faction, that's your choice. But don't try to ban cigarettes in everyone else's writing and lives just because you dislike them. Feel free to push the topic IC if you want, but I doubt you'll get any traction. This has always been one of your sillier crusades.
 
Why would you restrict the creative boundaries of your playerbase for such an unimportant topic? This is incredibly heavy handed.
 
Yamatai needs a smoking problem.

I say we introduce Catnip cigarettes to Yamatai. It will certainly be fun for factional trends, and likely will allow players the freedom to choose.
 
Honestly Wes, I dislike smoking too. However, it doesn't stop me from writing about characters that smoke. The reasoning for this comes in four reasons.

First, it's unrealistic that every person in the galaxy won't smoke. People do things that are bad for them because of societal pressures, peer pressures, or even personal reasons. Hell, people in real life now know that smoking is bad and I still know people that start smoking.

Second, smoking can be considered gritty based upon how it has been seen in media in real life. It's a sad fact, but it's true. Considering real life normally shapes our perceptions on our creations, it's inevitable that we see smoking in Nepleslia.

Third, Nepleslia wants to be different than Yamatai. After declaring independence from the Yamatai Star Empire, it was not only logical but also necessary that Nepleslia tried to differentiate itself from it's former rulers. Kids rebel against their parents by smoking (sometimes). Why should a young nation be any different?

Fourth, you has the creator of the site have certain responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is to make sure the site doesn't break any ethical boundaries and I can understand your views on smoking. However, philosophically, ethics are based upon the perspective individual and the society of that individual. You and I think smoking is wrong. You find it disgusting, but I don't. You want SARP to not represent smoking in a good way. Many other people want to represent smoking as it is, a bad addiction that some people (even good ones) can get into using. But, you will always find someone representing smoking as cool or gritty. This happens based upon the perspectives of that individual and you have no control over that perspective. Yes, you could scold, harp, even ban, but that doesn't seem like it will work. Why? Because you would be forcing your views and your perspective upon people who don't share them. That could be done when in a faction that has its own culture and society. That can't be done in a galaxy filled with different points of view.
 
Guys, it's one thing to air disagreement with Wes.

It's one thing to not share someone's opinion, and to openly point out you find it a bad idea. It's another entirely to troll him over it.

Make it a legitimate dialogue if you're going to post... or don't post at all.

* * *

As I see it, Nepleslians seem to smoke because it's not disallowed in Nepleslia, whereas in Yamatai it is. It's likely not a promotion of smoking in itself, but it's still a climate of acceptability.

Any member that smokes in real life (rough estimate: 50% of us?) and plays some Nepleslian marines is fairly likely to do the same, most likely because it seems acceptable. But in a combination where those members are active and in higher frequency, the portrayal of smoking characters as a growing standard that smoking is fairly prevalent in Nepleslia.

To supplement that... fiction related to the general archetype of the Nepleslian marines (the flagship role of nepleslian men in SARP) such as Terran marines in Starcraft push that forward (men in Starcraft are fsking chimneys).

I'm not exactly sure how that might be addressed, but allowance should perhaps be stemmed enough so to not become prevalence. After all, if the thematic cue becomes too prevalent, it ends up becoming much less effective too. I get the impression the current smoking archetype might have just snowballed.
 
Wes, And Fellow Sarpians


I come at this for a strange direction, I have been a smoker and non-smoker many different times during my life. I have had asthma attacks that have lead to me having to be taken to the ER, while the driver sits there chain smoking the whole way. So I'm not going to argue the heath nor moral ends of this.

What I'm going to say is that if we ban Tobacco (or what ever space tobacco we use.) Then we be come hypocrites. Sure Smoking is bad, but drinking or the drugs that are part of this universe are fine. Woo lets get rip roaring drunk and have outlandish parties, but damn to hell anyone lighting a smoke.

We have drugs to get you high, we have drugs to get you low, hell we even have a drug that can turn your character from male to female, female to male, or some combo in-between.

We have booze that does strange things to the drinker , far beyond just getting them drunk. heck the Eucharis, the flag ship of this universe, stocks a full bar, and the Commander of the ship owns a winery.

Now I'm not saying we get rid of these things. I truly believe they should remain, because they make this universe seem more real, and not some sort of Saturday morning cartoon, were cursing and vises don't exist.

But to condemn one vise over another is an issue that I find disturbing, I understand Wes has his personal Moral believes, each of us do. But to force said moral believes onto the community, yet allow others, will lead to a corruption of the community. If you don't like it, then don't use it. I have ran into a few players that don't believe in drinking, and their characters reflect it, but they don't force it onto others.


I hope that i come off her sounding respectful and polite, yet still stating my veiw point. If not I apologies, but my statements still stand.
 
Yes, SARP has its vices for the characters.

There is alcohol and the various drugs, most of which are rarely used. Or they are used in our mature plots.

The problem with the smoking I think is the trend of it increasing presence in Nepleslia. And there fore on our pages and in our forums.

In a lot of Science Fiction it seems that the further removed from current times the less you see smoking. Star Trek, Star Wars.

I think part of the concern is that the sole reason more of these characters are smoking is the perception that its COOL. Their character has to smoke to be cool.

That was the same message the tobacco industry used when advertised on TV. All the cool characters on TV shows smoked, icon it rugged figures like the "Marlboro Man" were created to foster the image.

I have to ask, do we want SARP to be seen as promoting that same message.
 
The fact you're fine with war, enslavement, rape, tentacles, torture, the existence of an entire species who are slaves from birth as the good guys, political correctness gone mad, questionable ethics and backward sociological policy makes me wonder just what must be so damn awful about those little white sticks full of dried leaves that you put to your mouth and set on fire.

#wow, #suchtruth, #muchbrave, #goodcommented, #doge
 
I'm not sure about the whole 'character made more badass' by smoking. I don't see many characters, mostly other Ran and Bastilen that seem to bring smoking part of an identity.

But, you know, let's take a look at Bastilen.

When I created this French-American Nepleslian, I intended him to be as a gritty and unsmooth as possible. Bastilen's history lays a thick layer of traumatic issues against him. His life has been tough since the street wars, and especially so since he was freed of his imprisonment on the prison-planet, Abjection.

As to why he smokes? Well, there's a myriad of habits one picks up to deal with a begrudging life. Some people take up drinking, some people take up bicycling. A lot of it really manages on the immediate income you've got. One of those habits Bastilen drew from was smoking.

Now you might think, why smoking? For one, it's a nasty habit that's hellishly hard to quit. First hand, with my mother, I know she's tried to quit several times, but familial crisis or injury always seems to bring her back. Despite knowing it's bad, smoking a cigarette helps her calm down, but draws her back into the habit. Bastilen lives with that struggling lifestyle of being both a wreck and a soldier, and the notion of dropping the habits he formed to deal with stress are simply swept aside by the instant gratification of a fresh cigarette.

Nepleslians don't, and I think have never lived the pleasant lives of their centerworld counter-parts. The far-flung worlds which were loosely ruled years ago had to manage on their own dime and effort. The smoking, drinking, and drugs(which there are a lot of on this site), are all the side-effects of a people who lived on a planet that was characterized by a poor law-enforcement and street wars. In essence, to me, it's an essence of realism and humanity compared to the alien nature of the rest of the universe.
 
For me this is less about smoking and more about one person trying to impose his will on others. Wes is entitled to his opinion as are we all. The fact is that if this "ban" on fictional smoking is allowed we are limiting our selves. Some of us don't like smoking, some of us actually smoke, but that is irrelevant.

I like writing, but I also like reading. To completely cut something because the site's founder dislikes it personally cheapens the experience we all have here.

Case and point, I leave many of my personal opinions at home when I do rp. I am making a villain and I assure you I am not trying to send a message that SARP thinks murder is awesome.

Honestly, I have no beef with Wes view, I have an issue with it being forcibly imposed. It is just wrong.
 
+1 to Koku, for real.

Wes, you have problems with religion too. Are you going to strip that out of the site as well? If so, I'll be the first to leave.

No one here, at this site, or people who come to this site, believes smoking is healthy or cool or wise. It's a filthy habit. But it's also counter-Yamatai and part of Nepleslia's grit, vile and roughened image.

Imposing an OOC desire this way isn't cool. There must be better ways to do this.

Create an e-cig push, perhaps.
 
Aendri said:
No. Flat out, no. If you don't want to depict a character smoking, that's your choice. If you want to ban smoking in your faction, that's your choice. But don't try to ban cigarettes in everyone else's writing and lives just because you dislike them. Feel free to push the topic IC if you want, but I doubt you'll get any traction. This has always been one of your sillier crusades.
Click to expand...

I quite agree with this. Every last syllable of this, in fact. My character, a Marine by the name of Naomi Scroggins who is hopefully soon to be back in the thick of it, smokes cigars. It's a part of her image as a character, and I see no reason to redact or reduce that aspect of her image. She enjoys smoking. It is a part of who she is.

If the faction of which you are patron bans smoking in-game, well and good for them, but don't go trying to impose limits on basically everybody else in-game because you, personally, happen to dislike the use of tobacco.
 
From my experience with Nepleslia, we do not condone the use of tobacco products in our roleplay, nor do with purport the idea that they do anything other than slowly kill the user. It is, in my opinion, that very fact that makes them prevalent in roleplay surrounding Nepleslia. For as long as I've been here, as a Nepleslian player to the Nepleslian FM, I've learned that Nepleslians in general have self-destructive tendencies. We've only recently (from a roleplay standpoint) stopped fighting amongst ourselves, but our cities are still filled with crime, super-corporations wage dirty, hidden wars for monopoly dominance, drugs and murder, our oceans are tinted green with pollutions, our worlds are either devoid of any natural vegetation or are quickly becoming so due to our ever-expanding industry, the air on our planets is hazy with smog... Nepleslia has never been portrayed as a place you'd generally want to live if you prefer a comfortable life. But that reason why people find it so appealing is just that; people can be content (or forms of contentment, I suppose) in the most awful places.

Smoking isn't just a habit for Nepleslians; from how Nepleslia has grown into its own skin, it's more like an everyday norm. It's something that's so common that people no longer even acknowledge it. Similar to how F-Bombs have been thrown around so often, for so long, that some people and my own Nepleslian characters do not actually know the real meaning to the word, just the associations it makes to convey a feeling or action. It's a part of Nepleslia right now, but not to prove or make some sort of "we are cool" feeling or notion. It's all part of Nepleslia's natural gravitation towards vice and self-destructive tendencies. I can't think of a single time where any of my roleplay involved a tobacco products for the purpose of enhancing a characters coolness. Rico smoked a cigarette once, I think, because he was being a playful dick and stole it out of another guys mouth while talking shit to him in a friendly manner. Shoot, if anything, we've done the opposite of condoning smoking by making Nepleslia a generally shitty place to live. We glorify Nepleslians short but bright lives, but not their smoking habits.

Others prior to me have stated the moral standards to the written smoking issue, as well as the integrity issues as writers and such. They've made those points already, and I would just be repeating it. I do not smoke or drink, never have, don't ever plan to really, but I do not judge others for what they do in this manner. But, as FM of Nepleslia, I understand that these sorts of vices are, plain and simple, a part of the natural setting Nepleslia has. We don't do it to spite Yamatai and their no-smoking rule, although IC-ly it is a rather enjoyable side-effect. We don't do it to look cool, because this isn't the 90's anymore; people are well informed about smoking at a very early age nowadays. We certainly don't do it just because Wes doesn't like it, nor do we condone its use beyond portraying this setting that our characters participate in. Nepleslians smoke because, just as we pollute our worlds without regret, rob one another blind, kill each other for the most trivial of things... it's a part of our setting, and we prefer it as such. With as much respect as I can extend to Wes and his viewpoint on smoking, I do not think it wise to take it away from our fictional setting.
 
Wes, this is silly, I left because things got too silly to tolerate at any level
the second mid-life crisis didn't help much either among other reasons
.
 
Doshii Jun said:
Wes, you have problems with religion too. Are you going to strip that out of the site as well?
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with religion in the roleplay. Keep in mind that we acknowledge the SARPiverse is fantasy. Let's not go off-topic.

Cy83r K0rp53: It's not silly. One of the reasons Nashoba and I don't play characters in Nepleslia is because of the prevalence of smokers there. Who knows who else is being driven away from the faction? Plus, we have children on the site whose minds are still being developed and teenagers are particularly at-risk. Also I'm not sure what "mid life crisis" you're referring to. I almost deleted your post as spam because it was so unhelpful (same with OsakanOne's animated GIF, and Ira's post about catnip).

On the flip side, I want to thank Moonman, Nashoba, Abwehran Commander, Fred, and Kokuten for making the best posts in this thread. It's your posts that had the most impact because they were especially thoughtful and explained their points of view.

ARTWORK: Anyway, The current SARP policy is that Star Army does not spend money on artwork with cigarettes in it. This has been my unspoken rule for years (for example, neither of Riko Bors chibis had one in it, despite being requested). I do want to go on the record and make that official. And though, I would like to expand that policy to say don't upload artwork with cigarettes in it, based on feedback I've got mixed feelings on that. Do you think that's a fair rule? (existing art would be grandfathered in).

ROLEPLAYING: Regarding smoking in the RP, I don't want to ban it (some posters seem to have that misunderstood that) but I do ask that it's toned down or show some consequences. If this was a game with mechanics I'd say "smoker characters roll 1D10 annually. If a natural 1, your character has to deal with lung cancer." But RP is up to players to self regulate so my OP post was a call for that.

WIKI: I also asked for to Nep FMs to consider a cultural article update, but I'm not ordering them to make one. I think SARP could really benefit from some future tech that eliminated the dangers and offensiveness of smoking (like the futuristic equivalent to vapes), that people could use in place of burning leaves. I would feel better about a character emitting strawberry-scented steam than stinking up a shuttle interior with tar and ash. Something to think about!
 
Wes said:
ARTWORK: Anyway, The current SARP policy is that Star Army does not spend money on artwork with cigarettes in it. This has been my unspoken rule for years (for example, neither of Riko Bors chibis had one in it, despite being requested). I do want to go on the record and make that official. And though, I would like to expand that policy to say don't upload artwork with cigarettes in it, based on feedback I've got mixed feelings on that. Do you think that's a fair rule? (existing art would be grandfathered in).
Click to expand...

Well, I already told you this in IRC, but I promised I would post it here so it could be part of the main discussion. So, here it is:

I feel that this is not fair, and allow me to elaborate as to why.

Wes, should you, Nashoba, or any other FM use SARP funds to purchase artwork: that is your money which you are putting towards it. No matter who it is for, you are the one providing funds. As a result, I feel it is you who has the right to set rules. If you say that even if I request it you don't want my character depicted in chibi form holding his pipe? Well, first of all, since I know your dislike for smoking I likely wouldn't request it anyways, and second of all I doubt you'd be purchasing any Nep Chibis any time soon. But that is still your call because you are the one getting the funds and providing the artist.

But then what if I'm the one putting my money forward and finding an artist to do it? Within the sensible limits of a site that admits people under the age of 18, we do have to consider things like lewd/adult material, but I would hardly consider smoking adult. At the age of sixteen I was aware of smoking, alcohol, drugs, sex, and all those other things. Aware and understanding enough that I was starting to be able to form my own opinions, rather than those preached at me constantly by me elders. I was able to weigh and balance things to decide what was and wasn't for me. So I can assure you seeing a picture of some man holding a simple cigar or pipe in his hand/mouth wouldn't be something so psychologically impacting as to drive me to be a chain-smoker.

And on top of that: where is this glorification coming from? I don't think any Nepleslian or other character who smokes has done so under IC, or OOC, ideas that it would make them "cool" or anything of that nature. I feel it was likely just perceived as something the character did.

What's more, really all we're doing here is the slightly more mature version of make-believe like when we were kids. What harm is my character lighting up a pipe doing to you, physically, as a person? Frankly, if the answer is anything at all, then there is a problem coming from somewhere other than my end of the computer screen. :/
 
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