NMX Forces Update

What would be the point? The Impaler art that's decent and a pretty solid wiki article. If you want to make some new Mishhu weapon for the "next generation" of Mishhu that might be something, but why mess with the original? Some people might even be using them still in their RP.

No no this thread is about updating them as a whole. @Wes

Fred said:

I don't believe this has its niche. Mishhu elites have their own power suits which likely bridge that (they were on the wiki once, but I can't find them). They can already carry easily four weapons with them in the number of tentacles they have too (well, classic Mishhu did, anyways); plastering weapons on their shells reduces their ability to aim them independantly considerably.

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I think the idea is to, besides making an actual article for a Mishhu power suit, also let them (and thereby GMs) have the option of having dorsal hardpoints. Basically the equivalent to a Mindy or Daisy's shoulder gun for them. This way, besides hefting four rifles, they can also have something like a pair of heavier cannons or min-missile racks.

Fred said:

I don't think the NH-25 needs tweaking, and would argue vehemently in disfavor of that if this ever became pushed. Besides, NH-27 were capable of hemosynthetically forming battle tentacles from HS ports on each sides of their abdomen just from their blood/nodal storage. I don't think the leg-to-tentacle volume is much of a concern, not to mention swelling can also be a factor hinting at more volume for less mass.

As far as I could tell - and my interpretation supports that - NH-25 aren't egglayers. Their legs/tentacles are versatile limbs, but they likely have nothing to do with the womb, nor would the neko have the space/room to have multiple youngling 'eggs' and then push them through tentacles. All the NH-25 get are retractable stingers.

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I can understand the idea of not wanting them to be able to hide their legs - if they were able to, why haven't they up to this point anyways? The tentacles doubling as reproductive organs though, just seems to make sense to me though, especially considering the source material for them. Narratively, them being able to use the extra limbs in such a way can make the Hybrids more disturbing and distinctly inhuman. Any flirting one would do with PC's would suddenly have a much more grave undertone to it for an example. We'd have nothing to lose by having that feature.

Also, they're tentacles.

Wes said:

I don't get why people are giving the Impaler rifle a hard time for being ADR 1. The point of the Impaler was to make unarmored NMX troops a threat to armored Star Army troops, not to be a power armor weapon. ADR 1 is the maximum damage our rules allow a personnel weapon to have. If you want a weapon for the Mishhuvurthyar to use for the armor scale, create/use an actual armor-scale weapon instead of the NMX Neko's infantry rifle.

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There was a lot more to it than just that. I completely agree that the Impaler is a very good weapon for unpowered infantry, but that wasn't the point; the Mishhuvurthyar arsenal just doesn't have a rifle similar to the LASR for them to use. For use on a PA, the Impaler is simply no-good, and GMs would have to scrounge around if they wanted to equip rifles. Most likely the LASR itself from SAoY stocks even.

Hence, why Arieg posted the weapon pictures on page 2.

Cadet, is there really a need for the forces to be clones of one another? If the Mish prefer hard mounted weapons on their PA, is that a serious flaw? Their hard mounted weapons are near equivalent to the LASR, just because they are not hand carried does not mean that it is inferior or weaker, it simply means that they just prefer mounted weapons instead of hand carried ones.

No point making all the forces clones of each other.

CadetNewb said:

I think the idea is to, besides making an actual article for a Mishhu power suit, also let them (and thereby GMs) have the option of having dorsal hardpoints. Basically the equivalent to a Mindy or Daisy's shoulder gun for them. This way, besides hefting four rifles, they can also have something like a pair of heavier cannons or min-missile racks.

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I dunno. If you were a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, would you be wild about the idea of having turrets grafted into your carapace?

I sure wouldn't.

CadetNewb said:

I can understand the idea of not wanting them to be able to hide their legs - if they were able to, why haven't they up to this point anyways?

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You're not making sense. I just don't understand this sentence.

CadetNewb said:

The tentacles doubling as reproductive organs though, just seems to make sense to me though, especially considering the source material for them.

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And now even less sense. There's no biology for it, not enough room to store eggs, not enough room in the tentacles to allow pathways for them anyways. It's a neko. With Mishhu traits (legs that can shapechange into tentacles, and the tentacles happen to be able to paralyze with a sting). If one decided to go around just with humanoid leg, you'd probably never be able to tell she's not a normal nekovalkyrja. Except by X-ray - I expect the bones in their legs to look rather special looking.

They're not monsters. They aren't obligatorily boss encounters. They're just people.

This is me getting annoyed. It's one thing to flesh out, another to push to redefine something ...and honestly, there's way too much dwelling on the NH-25 than I feel is healthy. They're not common enough to even be much of a concern unless you're interacting with the TNE. You certainly won't see them around the NMX. Wasn't this thread about the NMX?

Nightowl said:

Cadet, is there really a need for the forces to be clones of one another? If the Mish prefer hard mounted weapons on their PA, is that a serious flaw? Their hard mounted weapons are near equivalent to the LASR, just because they are not hand carried does not mean that it is inferior or weaker, it simply means that they just prefer mounted weapons instead of hand carried ones.

No point making all the forces clones of each other.

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The issue with not having a good set of rifles in the inventory is that the Mishhu themselves don't have something to use, not with just arming the PAs. As mentioned earlier, one of the downsides of the NMX is that they had far too many human faces in the rank and file, basically watering down their strengths; an alien, monstrous presence. Prior to the NMX, the SMX employed Mishhuvurthyar wearing armored suits and wielding multiple rifles at once, just as Fred mentioned. That alone is starkly different from power armored troops, and is likely something we should bring back. However, in order to do that, they'll be needing proper gear. Hence, the rifles.

Fred said:

I dunno. If you were a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, would you be wild about the idea of having turrets grafted into your carapace?

I sure wouldn't.

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Fred, if we're even going to consider bringing back Mishhuvurthyar Troopers, we should at least think about mounting additional weapons on their armored suits worn into combat. And that's not mentioning shields and so forth.

Fred said:

And now even less sense. There's no biology for it, not enough room to store eggs, not enough room in the tentacles to allow pathways for them anyways. It's a neko. With Mishhu traits (legs that can shapechange into tentacles, and the tentacles happen to be able to paralyze with a sting). If one decided to go around just with humanoid leg, you'd probably never be able to tell she's not a normal nekovalkyrja. Except by X-ray - I expect the bones in their legs to look rather special looking.

They're not monsters. They aren't obligatorily boss encounters. They're just people.

This is me getting annoyed. It's one thing to flesh out, another to push to redefine something ...and honestly, there's way too much dwelling on the NH-25 than I feel is healthy. They're not common enough to even be much of a concern unless you're interacting with the TNE. You certainly won't see them around the NMX. Wasn't this thread about the NMX?

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Fred, I really don't understand why you're getting annoyed - we're discussing potential ideas for the update. Not flat out going forward with it and ignoring everyone's thoughts on the matter.

As for that ability making sense or not, they happen to have tentacles of very similar or same type as the Mishhu on top of being based off of older, more powerful Nekovalkyrja models. I simply don't see how it can't be possible to carry a fraction of what a full blooded Mishhuvurthyar would have. What's more, I don't see how this change could hurt; with it, they can still be the same people they were before. Simply because they would be capable of monstrous acts wouldn't mean they would be monsters either.

As for why the NH-25's are being discussed, it's simply because we're looking towards whatever things are available to use and therefore improve the Mishhuvurhtyar's main military. The next thing might not even be called the NMX anymore for all I know. Even then, though we'll try to think of new things, looking at the past for inspiration is a no-brainer when planning or thinking of anything at all.

Quad pack 4 Impalers. ADR 4 in total. Ah, the joys of having multiple tentacles. Focus on one target or fire on 4 different ones. Why can't a Mishhuvurhtyar use multiple Impalers for devastating effect?

If you're going to get a new armoured suit, then it can be a stand alone entry with its own mounted weapons.

Think people are annoyed because your suggestions are running close to an overhaul instead of a simple update. Update is to bring things up to current information, not to create new ones. Nothing against it, but those will be individual items and should be discussed as individual items, not packed as an "update". Too many new ideas isn't an update, it's an overhaul.

Fred said:

I dunno. If you were a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, would you be wild about the idea of having turrets grafted into your carapace?

I sure wouldn't.

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You might if you were Krang or Baxter Stockman, though! Because those are the villains. More on that below.

Fred said:

They're not monsters. They aren't obligatorily boss encounters. They're just people.

>snip<

Wasn't this thread about the NMX?

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See, again here's what I see as Arieg and maybe Cadette seem to be missing. The thread is titled NMX, but half the top of the first post talks about SMX creatures, the bugs and the hybrids. The NMX are monsters. Bosses and encounters. The NMX and the SMX, while both being Mishhu are entirely different creatures. Both biologically and societally.

Trying to conflate them harms both because they fill vastly separate roles. Making new equipment for the NMX, the other half of the first post, seems like a fine idea, but I am against the dilution of the uniqueness of both the SMX and NMX by mixing their biological structures.

I think the thread is about Mishu in general. Both NMX, SMX and whatever forces all those used.

CadetNewb said:

one of the downsides of the NMX is that they had far too many human faces in the rank and file, basically watering down their strengths; an alien, monstrous presence

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I wonder how many people actually care about this or Mishhu much in general. What ever happened to all the talk of people being sick of Mishhu and wanting new enemies and conflicts?
What's the point of worrying about them being taken seriously when there isn't much to take seriously in what might as well be a wild animal/functionally generic evil for evil's sake badguy?
I'd take an exotic wild animal more seriously because it might be worth studying and trying to domesticate and it might only be attacking my character because it unknowingly invaded the creature's territory or something but from what I've seen in the thread I made all that's worth doing with Mishhu is shooting them twice as much as you think is necessary to kill them.
Do you guys take mindless zombies seriously?

Mishhu are fetish vehicles and that's why people care.

The point of this was to take what we have for what is effectively one of the setting's greatest enemies and expand what little they have in the way of inventory in both the biological and mechanical senses, I cherry picked bits from both the SMX and NMX that could be combined into something that GMs could use in a more flexible manner then what they field now.

The setting's greatest enemies are the Star Army of Yamatai.

Who comitted genocide against the Freespacers? Who drove back the Mishhu? Conquered the Elysians? Skinned the Kohanians? Caused massive wars with the Lorath and Nepleslia? Prevented the Azoreans from developing space flight? Spread a massive plague among their own people to force them into government-constructed bodies?

Greatest usable enemy I should say lol

There is still no good reason to cause further confusion by mixing the SMX and NMX together. The "flexibility" is already there in the RP where NMX have utilized SMX armaments and the SMX have fielded NMX troops.

To create a unified and detailed page for GMs to draw from?

Thats not what your proposal entails, though. You're missing half of both SMX & NMX types in the top section. If you think the SMX page needs more details and the NMX biological types needs to be shunted off to a subpage, then link to both from a main Mishhu landing page, then that is a much better wikification of the articles rather than a mashup that leaves off important pieces of both that will only serve to confuse readers.

(That and the SMX's detailed pages are gone now)

Then remake it. Go ahead and make a new one. I don't know why the old one was deleted, but one certainly existed when the NMX were written. That's a matter for the SMX though and cluttering the NMX page with SMX details is bad compartmentalization.