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NTSE Issues

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As I've said before, this type of posting is very bad for the site since it's not really something that people can easily reply to. It's not a dialog/discussion or conducive to one. But worse than that, the way the quotes are being used breaks up others' posts and takes them out of context. This is unacceptable.
 
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As I've said before, this type of posting is very bad for the site since it's not really something that people can easily reply to. It's not a dialog/discussion or conducive to one. But worse than that, the way the quotes are being used breaks up others' posts and takes them out of context. This is unacceptable.

Why are you derailing this thread, @CadetNewb? This discussion is supposed to be about the NTSE, not my posting style.
 
Wrong way to post

"Hey, this is wrong, fix it"

Right way to post

"Hey, this isn't quite right, maybe try this?"

When I tried my hand at unofficial ntse modding with the check list, first thing I would do is correct the spelling to the English standard used by the submitter in general. Most here are American so there is that. It is something by the rules of the ntse and Wiki I am allowed to do, moved the submission forward one step, and probably made the submitter feel more comfortable knowing that my intention was to have the article passed.

I'm not saying take time to correct the spelling and grammar, but if you are going to post, try to use positive language. Compliment what the submitter did well so that they can take what criticism you have better. No one likes being told they are wrong and no one likes being beaten with the rule book, but they can handle it far better if you throw in some nice things.

Hey, I really liked this. Thought that was cool. This past could use some work, suggestion to correct, but otherwise your doing great!

Is this so hard? Sure, may cost you a minute of extra typing but if you can't expend that out of care for your fellow human, then maybe you shouldn't spend the time posting at all.

The criticism sandwich. Compliment, complaint, compliment. Complaints should always be followed by helpful suggestions. I don't mean do the work, but start a discussion by showing your interest in the submission beyond just pointing out what is wrong with it. If all you do is sit there and go "This is wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, and you cant do this," Then honestly no one you interact with in this way is going to like you. Period. Doesn't matter how "Helpful" what you're saying is.

Making comments with a sterile approach is not the answer to this. Neutrality in outcome is just as bad as wanting it to not get through. It will always be taken in the negative. When we type on this forum, the people reading it only get 7% of the communication you are trying to relay. What is said. You need to really put effort into "How you say it", which is another ~30% of communication, and Body Language is the rest, which we can't get. Sometimes it doesn't matter how "Right" or "Wrong" you are. How you go about being right or wrong can make all the difference.

All in all, just be nice. If someone submits something, and you are going to comment, it is on you to be nice first. You have the set the bar for the conversation, and doing the thing I suggest here will set the bar for a positive conversation. That goes for EVERYONE.

EDIT

I made edits to add more of my point now that I'm on a computer.
 
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@FrostJaeger let's try something:
Stop this forum quotes overkill in your posts. I find them annoying as well. I skim through them and consider them tedious homework to go through. Especially if said comments you meant to quote are on the same webpage (which are usually groups of 10-posts by default). If you absolutely must quote, you get one or two - not half-a-dozen. If you must direct a reply, just tag them and say something specific - and more well-rounded - underneath.

I will defend you from witch-hunts. I will try to have people treat others in the way they would like to be treated.

But I will not mince words: when there's this many people complaining about you, odds are that something is wrong in the way you interact with people even if they are only half right. Personally, I held you in high regard and that's had my sympathies lean towards you, but somewhere around the Asteria split your presence on the board changed... I was sitting on the sidelines and noticed how your input started being perceived as harassment. "But Frost is a pretty swell guy" was what echoed in my head at the time, but as time went by, that notion paled over your continued involvement in ways that I couldn't ascribe to coincidence anymore.

When @Wes weighted on the matter, he scoffed at the ire raised against you and said that people balked because you were asking the hard questions. I saw what he meant and I agreed that sometimes you do have a point, but I also had my inner voice go "ah... Wes doesn't get it".

Something's been up with you. The problem with dealing with rule-lawyering is that I can't catch you with a smoking gun and I often have to side in your favor because my role is maintaining the peace (and I'm indulging this thread at the moment for the most part because there's candid words being aired and that it might help deal with pressure buildup), and that by this point, because the patience of others has worn out in your regards, any flares of hostility puts them more in the wrong than you in those instances.

...but I am not blind, and neither am I an idiot.

I'm not so naive as to hold my breath and hope this will just pass over, but I am hoping that somehow, you'll straighten your act. In the meantime, all I can do is jump in NTSE dialogues that have mired down, bring focus points back up to the surface, and see them resolved. I can't change you, I can only change what I do. But I do think you need to change in order to become more like how I remember you; uncompromisingly a positive presence in this community. I do believe you have room for growth and improvement. All I can hope is that you find the strength to move forward and be the best person you can be.
 
Sometimes I don't understand the point of Frost's long posts, either. They're very big and tedious to get through. But, you know, I've asked the guy why he posts in the way he does and ultimately can't find a problem with it because it's his way of communicating and presenting information.

Given that the entire community has seen what the people who don't like Frost say about people they don't like at this point, the whole thing is a pretty transparent witch hunt. It doesn't matter if a whole ton of people are uncomfortable with someone if their outrage and discomfort is demonstrably false.

These are basic internet troll tactics. Single out a user, feign concern, escalate to outrage, hound them and report everything they say. It's textbook and Frost (as well as many of us), frankly, have an airtight harassment case when it comes to this stuff.

The site's about Yamatai and Nepleslia and Elysia and the Mishhu. It is shameful that people who focus on these things are still vilified and concern trolled to this day, as it's been happening since long before Frost joined us.
 
I have also seen how you treat people you don't like. I believe ignorant mong is a phrase you have used several times, raz. Funny to see you act like you are the paragon of virtue.
 
Why is it that you all have to act like children still. Let's just go down the list.

Firstly @Cora @Zekec It doesn't matter how much Frost pisses you off. If he has a point has a point, no matter how it's delivered. Accept that much at least. As @Legix said there comes a point where you just need to freakin' get over it and move on. It's pixels on a screen, and even if it's 3 freakin' screens long, it can't hurt you if you just pay it no mind. If he has something to say that is actually significant the mods will highlight it for you. So just ignore him. You doing direct insults is just as bad as what he's doing and it's petty and childish, act like grown ups and take the high road.

@Arieg You might just want to improve your writing and do your own little thing, but SARP is not -your- place. It's a community. You need to start considering the -entire- community in your actions. That's why you've been getting flak so much, because you do stuff that can effect other people or their stuff negatively, and you simply don't care. If you want to stop getting flak, take into consideration the whole of the community with your submissions.

@CadetNewb @Ira You two have some of the strongest habits of acting like people are your enemies, and it has not only degraded how you interact with people but it's effected how your faction is played out. You two need to really tone down the egos and realize we're on the freakin' internet. Not only are other people's intentions hard to see but so our your own. Stop freakin' taking sides with people and start working on the right answers to things. And stop running into your corner of the site called Asteria, and start solving your problems by communicating with people and understanding their issues and conveying your own. Then come to a compromise

@FrostJaeger You have simply gone off the deep end. Even your signature has become an indication of that. You have become lost in your obsession with your 'enemy' and with 'justice' and 'rules'. That you have begun to act as if "rules make right". But simply put that is not true. You could be 100% right about a point, but if you present it in an irritating way, you might get no one reading it. And even worse, if you're 100% right and you're an @$$ about it, then they have to fix their stuff at best, but you end up needing disciplinary action. You're a full grown adult, act like it as well. Stop picking fights with people, stop picking at minutia that has little to no effect. Stop trying to ruin -entertainment- for people just because you don't like them. And I've watched you enough to confidently say you -are- trying to do that.

You all are just so frustrating to watch, it's one thing to be in a heated argument and act out, but you all go into discussions trying to start this mess. I don't know where you all got off thinking it's cool. And Mods and other players have tried to tell you all that this is not okay, but you all just keep on going. @Wes might let you all stick around, but is -this- how you want to be? Would you show your behavior here to your parents? Or your kids, or your significant other? Hell would you show it to a potential employer as an example of your behavior? I, nor anyone else should have to tell you, -act- like the kind of person you want to be. And if these are the kind of people you all want to be, then that is just pathetic.
 
I have to agree with Fred - his opinion is well stated, and, I feel, truthful. However, this brings up another problem point about the NTSE. It's always the same people, posting in the same people's threads, mainly Frost and Raz. It's always some form of bureaucracy and rule mongering - a whole bunch of "no, you can't do this" - rather than "that can't work, but here's how it can". The negativity I see in the NTSE is what I think is making it so daunting and unwelcoming to new players as of late, and as someone who was an NTSE Mod, I've received complaints about this, and have been helpless to do anything.

Normally, I'd have to agree with everything you say @Syaoran , but after so much hostility on the NTSE, it's hard not to just withdraw to someplace you feel is safe, and even harder not to lash out when it's the same people giving the same pushback time and time again. At this point in time, the lines are practically drawn. Though I'd rather keep to my own things and not bother people - the whole point of founding Asteria - others think otherwise.

EDIT: I try not to 'go after' anybody, but I don't think anyone can take this kind of punishment for so long without becoming irritable.
 
Look at these responses. Not even an attempt at reasonable discussion.

@Syaoran's post was one tick off perfect. If I didn't know Frost wasn't being malicious (again, I've asked him what his intentions are and he seems like a good dude) then I'd think Sya was some kind of psychic.
 
That's just rude raz. This is as close as we've gotten to having a discussion in, I don't know how long. At least try and contribute?
 
@Syaoran

Let’s see, I’ve been insulted numerous times by these people. I have been slandered. I have even been harassed which I’ve shown the evidence of. Oh and then I have actively had friends on the site attacked because they were friends with me. More of this just happened.

Now if that isn’t an enemy I don’t know what is. However I am not whining about it. Moving to defense my self isn’t wrong and I, you and anybody else is allowed to do so.

My solution is that this behavior cease. I am tired of it and I want this stuff directly addressed. As opposed to saying “oh are all wrong” no. That isn’t how that works at all. When somebody says or does something malicious and the other one reacts “everybody is wrong” simply doesn’t cut it.

I do not try to stop anybody from doing what they want to do. I am sick of the shade being cast I. My direction. It needs to stop.
 
I think I've been cursed at on the forums and in the chat room, but I don't complain about it every day. I get told I'm nitpicky, a bitch, to say please and thank you during reviews (???), and all sorts of things have happened behind my back that we don't want to even go into. So why does any person here that has done these things to me feel like they have a horse to sit on?
 
We need to keep this on topic everyone. In the end of the day, the behavior of certain people, Frost in particular, has been unacceptable. It's made the NTSE a much less new-player welcoming place. They come online, and they see what Frost does, and it intimidates them. This has driven me up a wall as an NTSE mod who's job is to make the process smooth and unintimidating.
 
I'm waiting for evidence that the discomfort is false.
There's no proof the discomfort is false, but I've stated it time and time again why the discomfort isn't because of Frost. It's just due to people taking everything super personal.

Despite that "discomfort", you guys seem to not realize Asteria and Pact have submitted more articles than really anyone in the last month. This is why I voiced that this was a witch-hunt and everyone needs to grow up. Frost isn't the issue with the NTSE, stop trying to tunnel-vision him as the issue. We got an NTSE mod who wants to moderate like @Fred instead of just help the submitter (because of supposed "damage" despite the fact that the banner alone means people don't need to listen to Frost over them). There's a continued issue of people posting here trying to validate this crying.

This isn't an NTSE issue and you need to take it out of this thread so it can be locked. Fix the supposed NTSE by using the ignore/block function many of you SAY you use and just don't read his input.

Just stop this stupid arguing. In the meantime while you play this petty war, I'm going to keep making things FOR THE SETTING and continuing on my merry way ignoring the ridiculous hate-war that's being waged. This thread has been a repeated cycling back to the witch-hunting and soft-skinned childish belly-aching. New players not being in the Submission board is just false. @Ethereal is one prime example. TBH this is one of the most new-player friendly periods as far as I've seen due to the amount of new players involved in creating over the last few months actually rising.

But whatever lies have to be told to make this witch-hunt "seem legit" is going to sit. Frost isn't for you to moderate and you guys continue to break the rules by going after people in public threads. Use PMs like you're supposed to and try to keep "NTSE Issues" relevant to actual NTSE issues like the shirking and avoiding of handling certain threads over the threads of friends. I'd love if instead of having to rely on @Ametheliana for all my submissions that @CadetNewb would have actually taken them. I'm sure Frost would have as well, but his threads only end up sitting there for a few months without a reply.

So... yeah. Nothing personal, just I want the NTSE to function and fix issues that are relevant and not due to people's personal "beef". Get it functioning with the legitimate issues and stop turning it into "let's get Frost banned".

Well we could discuss your treatment of Ethereal while you're here.
Can we talk about how you shouldn't be involving yourself between other members? You don't have a staff/mod tag. See how it feels.

People getting intimidated by someone they can just toggle with an ignore. Just... wow.
 
I think I've been cursed at on the forums and in the chat room, but I don't complain about it every day. I get told I'm nitpicky, a bitch, to say please and thank you during reviews (???), and all sorts of things have happened behind my back that we don't want to even go into. So why does any person here that has done these things to me feel like they have a horse to sit on?
You are terrible to not only my self, but plenty of others. I wish you weren’t. In virtually every instance anything that has been said is in response to your actions and those around you.

But. You have also received apologies. I even attempted to give you the star systems you tried to steal. I’ve personally facilitated Gallant and Cadet write an apology letter. None of it was good enough.

So in the face of the unreasonable, we are sick of it. It needs to stop on all fronts, including the NTSE. Because the thing is, the issue with the NTSE is a symptom of the problem, not the cause.
 
@CadetNewb I know the inclination to withdraw, however if you withdraw it's one thing, but when you push back against those people, it's fuel to the fire. It's one thing if the other person doesn't want to communicate, but you extend the olive branch and do the right thing. Don't post "Well you're just being crazy, I'm going to wait till someone else is here for proper info." Either discuss with them, or just don't respond and call a moderator in PM to handle it. You don't need to have the last word.

@Ira all that needs to be defended is your reputation, you don't have to jump in to so many conversations like you do and throw jabs at people. If someone is saying something -false- about your actions that's one thing and you should correct it. But if they're arguing with someone else who's your friend. Don't be a freakin' yes man and jump in just to tick the other person off.

@raz I'm not going to get into an argument over it, but I have had conversations with Frost personally where he's said things counter to what you are saying. You also need to stop assuming everyone is trying to troll just because they don't feel the same way about something as you do. People's feelings are their own, you don't control them or know them. Do not act like people aren't hurting just because you don't understand it.

@ArsenicJohn Stop dragging things in the dirt. One line quips saying "What you said is wrong" is no better than anything I just got on people about or than the things you're quipping about. Be constructive.
 
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