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NTSE Issues

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Thats like saying chemo doesnt work because it wasnt quite so effective ten years ago. Things are different now.
 
...No, I was referring to why the old system didn't work. Reading the forums doesn't always tell you everything.
 
Arieg said:
Thats like saying chemo doesnt work because it wasnt quite so effective ten years ago. Things are different now.
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Chemo has little to do with an online roleplaying forum, @Arieg - and if you read some of the threads from around that time, you would see a lot of similarities.
 
Arieg said:
The issue is players who post everytime until the submission is rejected or given up on or passed after extreme durress.
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Any submitter who has experienced "extreme duress" has an issue only they can solve within. Like, if someone is going to take offense by what people think every time they are criticized, they're going to have a bad time.

As a rule, try not to live life assuming negative subtext behind everyone's words. People aren't like that. When a person constantly thinks there's something negative beyond the face value of everyone else's words, of course bad feelings will escalate from the get-go.
 
ArsenicJohn said:
...No, I was referring to why the old system didn't work. Reading the forums doesn't always tell you everything.
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While you might be right, that's not justification for this at all. This is like saying that the IRC conflicts were the core reason we got rid of interdiction, because they were going on while fundamental problems were occurring. The fundamental issue here is that we're trying to remove rights when we should be policing and actually enforcing the rules on people who have been extremely combative in response to feedback or intrusive in a submission.

The system isn't broken. The people wanting to change it are. This is precisely why I've raised... what... two threads about the NTSE now? My spot in this one is to highlight our problems are not structural, they're simply people not playing nice with each other.
 
Kim said:
So there is more than one way to weigh in on a submission for a setting than this formalized process- you talk to the player or you talk to the faction manager before you make something for that faction. As a submitter, you should have already started talking to your appropriate FM before you create something for it. I have done that each time I have written something that was background fluff loosely based on something pre-existing for Nepleslia or Yamatai. You should start a dialogue before it even hits the forum for approval.
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While this -should- work, we already know submitters don't do it. We can't really rely on them properly informing and talking to everyone they should before hand. Then the big problem comes in, what if they -don't- talk to someone and it comes to light after submission? What do we do? That all comes right back to rules clarity and actual enforcement.
 
@FrostJaeger a private submission, as i understand it, is between the FM of the concerned party or parties, a staff member and the submitter. I think this would be a workable solution, and i would recommend this avenue of approach.
 
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I think Wes has made it clear he now understands that the current NTSE is plagued with problems, primarily heckling that is non-productive. Private submissions are very tempting, but they also suffer from the issue of lacking transparency, which is vital.

Though I think giving NTSE mods the ability to moderate the very threads they're reviewing - on top of restricting it to submitter, involved FMs and the reviewer - I think this is too stiff, since it may prevent valid points from being raised like they used to in the past. If we adopt what I just mentioned, I think we should also implement a simple system where anyone who wants to comment simply posts, asking for permission first. The NTSE mod reviewing may either talk to the person in private or give them permission.
 
If rules are clearly laid out and actually enforced, then I'd be happy with that. It's the bare minimum that needs to happen, in my eyes, to deal with the drama that comes up repeatedly.
 
CadetNewb said:
I think Wes has made it clear he now understands that the current NTSE is plagued with problems, primarily heckling that is non-productive. Private submissions are very tempting, but they also suffer from the issue of lacking transparency, which is vital.

Though I think giving NTSE mods the ability to moderate the very threads they're reviewing - on top of restricting it to submitter, involved FMs and the reviewer - I think this is too stiff, since it may prevent valid points from being raised like they used to in the past. If we adopt what I just mentioned, I think we should also implement a simple system where anyone who wants to comment simply posts, asking for permission first. The NTSE mod reviewing may either talk to the person in private or give them permission.
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Oh this...this reminded me. Doesn't the news forum go through an approval system before post show up? Couldn't we do something like that for NTSE? I personally would rather all post be allowed and bad ones be removed(and discipline given), but I still think having to get a post approved before it goes through would be better than a 'private review' system. That way any bad post are stopped before they're even seen.
 
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Syaoran said:
Oh this...this reminded me. Doesn't the news forum go through an approval system before post show up? Couldn't we do something like that for NTSE? I personally would rather all post be allowed and bad ones be removed(and discipline given), but I still think having to get a post approved before it goes through would be better than a 'private review' system. That way any bad post are stopped before they're even seen.
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That, @Syaoran, would be a massive amount of work for @Wes - the only member of the staff I'd trust with such power - to take on.
 
FrostJaeger said:
That, @Syaoran, would be a massive amount of work for @Wes - the only member of the staff I'd trust with such power - to take on.
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It's not the worst idea. Give all NTSE mods power to moderate posts before they go public (essentially the feature that Sya is talking about) so everyone still gets to give their feedback, but only stuff someone on the review staff or actual staff thinks is valid makes it through to the public eye.
 
When I think of private review, by the way, it doesn't mean the average member wouldn't be able to watch the thread, they just wouldn't be able to post in it. Then if they have issues they could PM the mods about it before it gets approved. Syaoran's suggestion might be better. It's really similar to what I was thinking but takes out a step.
 
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