We can't really use our environment either. Seeing how it's a long hall with several closed doors, and one slowly closing one. This kind of environment is called a shooting gallery. And we're the glass ducks.Kevyn said:He's said that we should think on our feet and use our environments, but so far everything other then what's fairly obviously the 'correct' course of action has been more or less useless if not outright lethal.
MoonMan said:I'm not too sure how much schedule will be able to match up with all of yours, I'm back to working at night again for the next couple of weeks.
I can tell you that if we continue to SP so that I don't hold us up, though, to play it smart. We've put our characters in a difficult situation, and I'm about as hesitant of pulling the trigger as the rest of you are.
Perhaps a different approach is needed then; I don't recall the mission objective being kill all of your enemies. It might be that the website is so used to the idea of always being able to defeat your foes, and it could be a lack of true explanation of what I really wanted to see out of the characters in this episode.Cora said:A survival RP where we have peashooters vs combat assault rifles. Hell, it took a convent plot contravice that allowed us to even do anything to these enemies.
(And I bet twenty bucks that their jumpsuits are knife proof)
Just broadly, I think Moonie's something like a catch 22 scenario right now. He doesn't want to kill of any players, but he doesn't want to make the Uniques vulnerable to anything short of the glowing special weapon. Since Moonie doesn't want to change his two goals, well, we're basically just along for the ride. He's said that we should think on our feet and use our environments, but so far everything other then what's fairly obviously the 'correct' course of action has been more or less useless if not outright lethal.
We can't really use our environment either. Seeing how it's a long hall with several closed doors, and one slowly closing one. This kind of environment is called a shooting gallery. And we're the glass ducks.
On a related note, Moonie, would you mind just giving a sort of "reaction shot" post before you get back to whaling on out asses? I kinda know what Cyril's going to do, but it'd be more or less cotemporaneous with Tweak kicking or not kicking Laj across the room and whether or not that happens'll kinda influence what he does next.
She flung the knife as hard as she could at Kranker's gun barrel in an attempt to knock it off target and buy at least another half-second.
MoonMan said:Perhaps a different approach is needed then; I don't recall the mission objective being kill all of your enemies. It might be that the website is so used to the idea of always being able to defeat your foes, and it could be a lack of true explanation of what I really wanted to see out of the characters in this episode
MoonMan said:And, truthfully, I'm a little disappointed. The hallway and the two three rooms being occupied (hangar bay, development laboratory, assembly area) are not the only areas I've given the scenario. Characters could've accessed these areas a number of ways...although it was never necessary. I understand your frustration in feeling you don't have the tools...but from my point of view, not many of you really looked for them. Or if you did, I just didn't understand it. Something to learn from.
MoonMan said:But your asses are so whaleable...
Dragonnova said:I honestly still think Cyril likely should've died for what happened, but since we're just getting the feel for this, I guess it's allowable this one time. (Though I still say he walks away with an injury of some sort.)
I expect you to play your characters the way you normally would. There wasn't a "right" way to combat this situation; there were painful and less-painful options to go through to the goal.Kevyn said:That's just the thing. It was never explained just what else we were supposed to do. We're a security team, and the Uniques both killed off station personnel and apparently stole something, presumably high value, from the research portion of the station. Were we supposed to back off? We didn't have any word from on high, both IC and OOC, so the logical thing to do if fall back to our presumed primary function. Protecting the station and apprehending the perpetrators.
And even then, once we engaged the Uniques we were pretty much stuck with fighting them. And there was never any hint that we were supposed to do otherwise. What do you expect from us?
You handed us the plasma upgrades, but every thing else with the possible exception of the crates in the docking bay (which I tried to make use of both from the vents and from the ground only to get shot down on both attempts for different reasons) and the whurring death machines in the assembly area (from what we've seen so far of relative armor, more dangerous to us then to the Uniques) It's not like we're going to split up in the face of overwhelming opposition, so sticking together made sense for the part of the squad upstairs. By the time they checked out one room, the Uniques were already on them, cutting off other avenues of investigation.
It was a drastic change from your previous scenarios, I agree...but it was for good reason. This was a good practice of sorts for future episodes, for both myself and the players, to see what works and what doesn't. Not all of Cirrus Station's episodes will be as care-free as a romp in the jungle with neko amazons.Moon, I think we all went into panic mode when the pirates and bay crew were turned into so many corpses. And then we started being hunted after being mocked for using sub-par equipment repeatedly. This is why we are fighting, and most of why we feel we are backed into a corner. In other words, what Kevyn said.
I don't believe it was Laj or Marrisa who ordered anybody dead.(Side note: Why haven't the CEOs and the bay Uniques kept to this "Kill 'em All" philosophy? If Yu is worried about cybernetic recording devices, a quick vaporization takes care of that easy. It's not making sense. Not that I'm saying we must die now, I'm just saying it's unusual.) If they wish to capture the team and not obliterate it, why not call out an offered chance to surrender? Not that we'd take it, since they double-crossed their allies minutes earlier...
We have to play with the cards we are dealt; my schedule doesn't allow me to JP on a regular basis.As for the "unexplored options", I believe the problem I had with the whole call-response style of SP is part of it: You say we need to ask what's around us. Well, you've told us what's around, but kinda vaguely. Now I assume asking or saying "So-and-so inspects the area closer" might turn up something more detailed, but consider what I said about the nature of SP RP. Say a player posts, and then has to wait for a reply. The waited-for reply could come the next minute, or it could come later when that player is logged off and is unable to answer until the next day, after which there could either be no new posts in the thread or there could have been a posting version of a bum rush that leaves your character five minutes behind everyone else (My most common problem). Not fun, since that player now feels like they wasted a post, especially if that didn't turn up anything useful. Kinda like attacking one option at a time, but anyway...
Combat situations are much better handled in JP, and exploration situations are much better handled in a tabletop game session where you have immediate access and response from the GM.
There weren't very many hints or forks in this episode, other than the unexplored rooms. The most obvious hint I gave early on was that your primary weapons would not work in this situation.I'm pondering ways to fix this problem, but it's slow going. BTW, Moon, when this is over, I'd like a list of 'forks in the road'. What were other options at certain points of the story, what clues to better options did we miss, and what were behind doors three and four? Studying your posts with the clues pointed out might help us see those clues in the future, and we can also give feedback on whether those clues were obvious enough or, if we did see them, why we thought they wouldn't work and didn't follow them.
It was actually an opening (that I kind of wish was taken, haha).Yu did say "can we talk this out". Was that an opening? He kinda has Tweak's friends under the gun, so he can fire at any time; Tweak only has one of him, his crew and Cranker apparently don't care if he dies, so if she kills him they kill her friends and she just lost the only piece of immediate cover/meat shielding she has. Plus the CEOs have both proven to be less-than-trustworthy, leaving any negotiation terms open to being violated. She does not see herself in a good negotiating position, thus the attack: First priority, bring her squadmates into a less immediate state of danger.
So yeah, that's just my ramblings. I'm not telling you how to run your plotship, Moonie, I joined here because I thought it looked fun. Keep in mind that flexibility in the missions can be better than the most artfully crafted storytelling. (which I'm sure you already know.) As for the players... well I guess I can't comment much, but don't be suprised for your characters to become injured or even killed. I honestly still think Cyril likely should've died for what happened, but since we're just getting the feel for this, I guess it's allowable this one time. (Though I still say he walks away with an injury of some sort.)
I tend to keep plans and episode bullet-points to a minimum to avoid railroading. I'm not sure if it's just me or not, but this episode certainly wasn't a train-ride for me; there were several times where things happened that I didn't plan for at all, and threw me for a loop or two.And I agree with the rest of what you said. You need to plan out what you're going to throw at your players ahead of time. And you definitely have to roll with what their doing, within reason. Strict railroading isn't fun for anyone but the GM, but by the same token the players do need some sort of structure to work off of and goals to work towards.
Unfortunately, none of the rooms you entered had such features. Other rooms, however, might have. Short-sightedness on my part, possibly; I didn't think that nobody would be curious as to what exactly was stored in the Storage Area of a weapons laboratory. :mrgreen:In short, how can I make my wrecking ball out of some sticks, a bowling ball, and a piece of string if I am not told they exist?
Furthermore, if you enter a room and a forklift is sitting right there, I should have seen it on the way in, I don't think I need to look at the room closer to see it.
I won't use a crappy excuse like that.Though it also in part that Moon had random IRL shit go down in his own life, details isn't something you remember clearly when you come back from stuff like that.
A few speed bumps, a few brick walls ^_^MoonMan said:Let's just say running an experimental plotship has bumps.
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