Let's not forget that the senate is a historic and important part of Yamatai, having been in place since 2003. There is nothing "non-Yamataian" about it.
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OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion
- Thread starter Doshii Jun
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Andrew
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I believe the following:
The Senate is IC The senate should be maintained as an IC body that reflects the IC views of Yamatai. People should be true to their characters and the people who play them should have a strong character base within the YSE plotlines.
OOC Faction Drama This really should not have any presence in roleplay. If you're major characters and you are major backers for another faction and you can't keep your OOC and IC separate. Why have a Yamataian politician?
OOC Bias/Agenda I think it is best I not even say what I want to on that one other than grow up.
The Senate is IC The senate should be maintained as an IC body that reflects the IC views of Yamatai. People should be true to their characters and the people who play them should have a strong character base within the YSE plotlines.
OOC Faction Drama This really should not have any presence in roleplay. If you're major characters and you are major backers for another faction and you can't keep your OOC and IC separate. Why have a Yamataian politician?
OOC Bias/Agenda I think it is best I not even say what I want to on that one other than grow up.
Tom
Inactive Member
Please don't make demands on other players who may just be RPing their senators as they see fit. The purpose of this discussion should be to try to find a common ground, and finger pointing is not going to help us do that.
I do believe that it may be a good idea to have senators have involvement in at least one Yamataian plot, and also have Yamataian characters that they play a lot before they are allowed to create a senator.
This means that the senator's player has a IC interest in the proceedings of the senate to temper any OOC ones.
Another possible idea is to have senators elected by Wes or someone else, but this presents clear possibilities for nepotism/favoritism.
But we should also appreciate the players who actually put in the effort to create senators in the first place. Yamatai is the only place where we have politics going on right now on the site, so I don't want to fault them for playing in the only zone that makes that available at the moment.
I do believe that it may be a good idea to have senators have involvement in at least one Yamataian plot, and also have Yamataian characters that they play a lot before they are allowed to create a senator.
This means that the senator's player has a IC interest in the proceedings of the senate to temper any OOC ones.
Another possible idea is to have senators elected by Wes or someone else, but this presents clear possibilities for nepotism/favoritism.
But we should also appreciate the players who actually put in the effort to create senators in the first place. Yamatai is the only place where we have politics going on right now on the site, so I don't want to fault them for playing in the only zone that makes that available at the moment.
Tom, one of the issues I have noticed as of late when I read through some of these threads is that it does appear that some people - not naming names - are allowing OOC information or prejudice to influence the IC.
We've seen this happen even in regular RP's so it's not impossible for it to happen here; what Andrew is asking shouldn't be ignored. The moment we allow OOC bias to leak into the IC, is when things start to get tainted.
Now, maybe what I'm seeing isn't truly what I am seeing, it's merely my perceptions.
We've seen this happen even in regular RP's so it's not impossible for it to happen here; what Andrew is asking shouldn't be ignored. The moment we allow OOC bias to leak into the IC, is when things start to get tainted.
Now, maybe what I'm seeing isn't truly what I am seeing, it's merely my perceptions.
Tom
Inactive Member
Unfortunately, there are humans sitting behind these characters, people who have invested a lot of personal time, and even money sometimes into this community.
With that much investment comes a lot of emotions and opinions on how the site should go. The senate is an opportunity to do that. Asking people to discard their personal feelings may be asking too much.
It really is a difficult situation we find ourselves in, but one that, ultimately, I feel we can find acceptable compromise in.
Abolishing the senate, I feel, is not a good idea, because it is, essentially, telling SARP's players 'thanks, but no thanks. We don't need your input.'
Maybe changing the system is where we should be aiming, though. Perhaps we could introduce anonymous representation in some way to avoid OOC favoritism? Or maybe we could have senators appeal to an anonymous council who represents the opinion of the empress with their majority vote (if we were to go that way, that is).
Keeping a professional distance between the arguers and the decision makers may be something to consider.
With that much investment comes a lot of emotions and opinions on how the site should go. The senate is an opportunity to do that. Asking people to discard their personal feelings may be asking too much.
It really is a difficult situation we find ourselves in, but one that, ultimately, I feel we can find acceptable compromise in.
Abolishing the senate, I feel, is not a good idea, because it is, essentially, telling SARP's players 'thanks, but no thanks. We don't need your input.'
Maybe changing the system is where we should be aiming, though. Perhaps we could introduce anonymous representation in some way to avoid OOC favoritism? Or maybe we could have senators appeal to an anonymous council who represents the opinion of the empress with their majority vote (if we were to go that way, that is).
Keeping a professional distance between the arguers and the decision makers may be something to consider.
The only request I'd make is that if your main character is not on a Yamataian plot ship or you are more heavily invested in another faction, please refrain from roleplaying a senator. That's like me up and creating a Nepleslian senator right now and dictating policy for the faction. Which would totally be okay with all the Nep players!
Get real.
Get real.
Kim
スター軍の司書
Initially when I was asked to make a Jiyuuian senator, to get the senate rp rolling, I was aphrehensive since it is a LOT of work and I was managing a few other plots myself. I was thinking I was just going to have this NPC vote on stuff every once in a while and that kind of snowballed.
I honestly am trying to play Sora's opinions as her own. Yes, she is slightly disheartened by the stuff that's come up but that's why she is a different sort of Star Army Officer now. I really don't want to make another senator character even though I have a vested interest in Yamatai flourishing.
I just want this discussion to improve the setting story or move it forward, it gets frustrating when nothing happens but arguing.
I honestly am trying to play Sora's opinions as her own. Yes, she is slightly disheartened by the stuff that's come up but that's why she is a different sort of Star Army Officer now. I really don't want to make another senator character even though I have a vested interest in Yamatai flourishing.
I just want this discussion to improve the setting story or move it forward, it gets frustrating when nothing happens but arguing.
Sigma
Inactive Member
And to whom are you directing your insult towards, Raz? ShotJon, who has characters in every faction? Myself? Luca? Your implication is that there are Yamataian players who are not worthy of posting in the senate by virtue of having less dedication. Very democratic of you.
There is no Nepleslian senate. Nepleslia is run by Westwood and the 4 Grand Admirals. It's no secret that the Senate was dissolved after the NMX attacked Nepleslia, thanks to Uso. So you wouldn't be able to do that in the first place.
So, I would suggest you clarifying to whom you are directing the provocative "Get Real" to. It is rather ... annoying to see this "Holier than thou" attitude in the OOC.
There is no Nepleslian senate. Nepleslia is run by Westwood and the 4 Grand Admirals. It's no secret that the Senate was dissolved after the NMX attacked Nepleslia, thanks to Uso. So you wouldn't be able to do that in the first place.
So, I would suggest you clarifying to whom you are directing the provocative "Get Real" to. It is rather ... annoying to see this "Holier than thou" attitude in the OOC.
I wasn't insulting anyone, Sigma. If you were insulted it's because you chose to be. All I was iterating is that those who do not hold Yamatai's interests above that of wherever else they play have no business imposing their vision on Yamatai's playerbase. That isn't an unfair statement in the slightest.
Fred
Retired Staff
Wes, sorry, but I don't see what you've pointed out as very valid. The historical precedent you pointed out marked something quite different.
As is, the Yamataian Senate just feels disgustingly like the sort of setup the Nepleslians would have (not the the Nep senate was disgusting, mind you - I'm going for something else). To me, not only a lot of Yamataian flavor is lost... but we're also stealing something from Nepleslia!
The point Raz and I have been bringing up lately didn't mean "do not allow the memberbase to participate in Yamatai politics". Phshaw. Not even Kotori went that far in her angry request to sink the Senate.
Yamatai had a precedent for Imperial Court roleplay. Yamatai has clans. It has provinces (i.e.: the Warmaster worlds). There are things we could use which would make it feel like it'd live up to some of the things that make it great. The structure would be different, but the memberbase's ability to contribute to it would still be there.
Tom mentioned how people wanted a return to the imperialistic bossyness-blahblah and couldn't figure out why. Point is that the Empire did change - Himiko has carefully tried to improve outside relations, and so has Yuumi. But that didn't mean that inside we had to mimic the Nepleslian governmental structure this closely. It's americanized. Yamatai isn't handle itself like North Americans - again, that was a Nep thing.
Hence why the present senate feels like it's hurting Yamatai's suspension of disbelief. At least, in my opinion. The present situation doesn't feel like evolution at all - it's more like forcefully grabbing a bull by the horns and changing its directions by a flat ninety degrees. If it was truly evolution, then people wouldn't have noticed and made a stink about how out-of-character it kind of feels.
As is, the Yamataian Senate just feels disgustingly like the sort of setup the Nepleslians would have (not the the Nep senate was disgusting, mind you - I'm going for something else). To me, not only a lot of Yamataian flavor is lost... but we're also stealing something from Nepleslia!
The point Raz and I have been bringing up lately didn't mean "do not allow the memberbase to participate in Yamatai politics". Phshaw. Not even Kotori went that far in her angry request to sink the Senate.
Yamatai had a precedent for Imperial Court roleplay. Yamatai has clans. It has provinces (i.e.: the Warmaster worlds). There are things we could use which would make it feel like it'd live up to some of the things that make it great. The structure would be different, but the memberbase's ability to contribute to it would still be there.
Tom mentioned how people wanted a return to the imperialistic bossyness-blahblah and couldn't figure out why. Point is that the Empire did change - Himiko has carefully tried to improve outside relations, and so has Yuumi. But that didn't mean that inside we had to mimic the Nepleslian governmental structure this closely. It's americanized. Yamatai isn't handle itself like North Americans - again, that was a Nep thing.
Hence why the present senate feels like it's hurting Yamatai's suspension of disbelief. At least, in my opinion. The present situation doesn't feel like evolution at all - it's more like forcefully grabbing a bull by the horns and changing its directions by a flat ninety degrees. If it was truly evolution, then people wouldn't have noticed and made a stink about how out-of-character it kind of feels.
Sigma
Inactive Member
Really, Raz? Your snarky comment certainly give a different impression. I have never known the phrase "Get real" to be used as anything other than an insult. And the fault and responsibility of being offended lies with the reader, rather than the writer who put pen to paper?
I could say "Certain Yamataian GMs are twits" and if you complain, say it's you who chooses to be insulted by what I wrote. Your logic, sir, holds no water in this regard. So, I would suggest you, to quote an esteemed gentleman, "Get real."
What is also disturbing is that you do not believe that being potentially insulting is very bad in this setting. Nor do you address the other points I raised, choosing only to deflect the one with flawed logic. While the latter point is your prerogative, it hardly makes for a balanced viewpoint to simply ignore the concerns raised by your peers.
After all, ShotJon, Kim, Luca and I have characters in Nepleslia. Does that make our interest in Yamatai quantifiably less than yours? To which of us is your initial post, which I copy below, directed towards? For the sake of clarity so we know exactly who you're attempting to provoke.
I could say "Certain Yamataian GMs are twits" and if you complain, say it's you who chooses to be insulted by what I wrote. Your logic, sir, holds no water in this regard. So, I would suggest you, to quote an esteemed gentleman, "Get real."
What is also disturbing is that you do not believe that being potentially insulting is very bad in this setting. Nor do you address the other points I raised, choosing only to deflect the one with flawed logic. While the latter point is your prerogative, it hardly makes for a balanced viewpoint to simply ignore the concerns raised by your peers.
After all, ShotJon, Kim, Luca and I have characters in Nepleslia. Does that make our interest in Yamatai quantifiably less than yours? To which of us is your initial post, which I copy below, directed towards? For the sake of clarity so we know exactly who you're attempting to provoke.
I will make my input and then leave this thread, seeing as I hate long lengthy arguments. I'm not looking for criticisms or anything, and I don't plan on replying after this.
I believe that Yamatai, in my opinion, should be less player-input. Yamatai is the starter faction for many, and having it continuously change as the older players do, I feel, would warp its sort of NPC-ish neutrality as a starting point.
Player "input" I feel comes more from their development for other factions of others or their own. I mean, they can develop things for Yamatai too. But ruling stuff is different than technology and businessstuffness.
And that is all I really have to say on the matter. Good day.
I believe that Yamatai, in my opinion, should be less player-input. Yamatai is the starter faction for many, and having it continuously change as the older players do, I feel, would warp its sort of NPC-ish neutrality as a starting point.
Player "input" I feel comes more from their development for other factions of others or their own. I mean, they can develop things for Yamatai too. But ruling stuff is different than technology and businessstuffness.
And that is all I really have to say on the matter. Good day.
Let's put those arguments in context: You wouldn't be arguing about it if you didn't care a lot about the faction. So thank you guys for your voices. Since it's getting unpleasant, let's move on.
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For nearly 10 years, the senate has helped flesh Yamatai out, giving us our laws, treaties, and guiding the nation. I control the Empress and Yui, but Yamatai is more than just me. The senate is where you guys are my equals and where you're a part of the government that runs this unique nation your characters live in and fight for. You get a say.
Since we're going to the old school style of players with systems/planets, we need to figure out who wants which system.
Here's the requirements for being a Yamataian senator:
1. First and foremost, you got to like Yamatai. If you don't have our great old faction's interests at heart, I don't want you in my senate. We got to work together to get things done that help the faction. Yamatai-Haters need not apply.
2. When you pick a planet, you're the curator for that planet. Much like Yamatai's homesteaders getting their bits of frontier land, you're expected to improve on your imaginary territory, adding new improvements in detail and culture to your system and planet wiki.
3. You're expected to make an NPC senator and participate regularly. If you don't vote, I may ask someone else who is active to take your place at my discretion.
Here's my thoughts on system assignments:
- Hanako is an experienced senator and I can use her for Hanako's Star
- Doshii seems ideal for planet Yamatai, having written a lot of the newer cultural stuff there.
If you want to sign up for a system, just ask here in the thread.
- - -
For nearly 10 years, the senate has helped flesh Yamatai out, giving us our laws, treaties, and guiding the nation. I control the Empress and Yui, but Yamatai is more than just me. The senate is where you guys are my equals and where you're a part of the government that runs this unique nation your characters live in and fight for. You get a say.
Since we're going to the old school style of players with systems/planets, we need to figure out who wants which system.
Here's the requirements for being a Yamataian senator:
1. First and foremost, you got to like Yamatai. If you don't have our great old faction's interests at heart, I don't want you in my senate. We got to work together to get things done that help the faction. Yamatai-Haters need not apply.
2. When you pick a planet, you're the curator for that planet. Much like Yamatai's homesteaders getting their bits of frontier land, you're expected to improve on your imaginary territory, adding new improvements in detail and culture to your system and planet wiki.
3. You're expected to make an NPC senator and participate regularly. If you don't vote, I may ask someone else who is active to take your place at my discretion.
Here's my thoughts on system assignments:
- Hanako is an experienced senator and I can use her for Hanako's Star
- Doshii seems ideal for planet Yamatai, having written a lot of the newer cultural stuff there.
If you want to sign up for a system, just ask here in the thread.
