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  • 📅 December 2022 is YE 44.9 in the RP.

SAoY MOS Expansion Discussion

Locked_0ut

Convention Veteran
My main concern with moving lots of things to certifications is that you can write your character as having a whole bunch and perhaps get to that mary-sue territory where your character is a "one man army", which would be silly.
You can potentially do that with MOSs too. (having a character who's just cross-classed out the ass) Outlined training times and requirements stop that.
that said, another thing that can be done to prevent certs from going off the rails is to also include like a Apprentice Journeyman Master System.
So like you might be trained, might even be really good at it skill wise, but you don't have the experience or rank to be counted above Apprentice
 

demibear

Staff Member
🎖️ Game Master
Character Forum Mod
That's kind of my main character: SAINT Operative > Giretsu / Ryoko Pilot (Project Thought magic) > Close Protection Specialist Overseer. It's largely done so I can try to use him for something.
 

Immortal Cyan

The Cyan Neko
🎖️ Game Master
My main issue is that these just feel like Rangers of a different flavor. Having skimmed the articles, there isn't much copy-paste, but at times it feels like the same information is being paraphrased.

I'm not sure of the Pharmacist comparison mainly because that stands as its own occupation with its own unique duties and responsibilities that are largely distinct from those of a medical or science specialist. There's not nearly as much overlap as there seems to be here. I'd recommend that these just be counted as Ranger sub-specialties in one article. This feels like 3 articles describing, "Space Rangers", "Ground Rangers", and "Border Rangers". That's like making articles for "Navy Medics" or "Army Medics". There may be some minor differences, but at the end of the day it's just a difference in terrain.
 
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Locked_0ut

Convention Veteran
"Navy Medics" or "Army Medics".
fair point, Maybe for some of them that are somewhat similar Make it a single page and make notes where they differ.
Not for every one because there is a major enough difference between Border Guard and Fleet Scout. Maybe for some of the Rikugun specific guys outline how they get like terrain specific training or prepare for longer operations with limited support.
Fleet scouts maybe more Zero G training. I'd also assume they're probably some of the first to drop onto unfamiliar and potentially hostile worlds so like xenobiology training, quarantine, first contact protocols, etc etc.
I'm admittedly biased in favor of allowing some MOSs to be split further. EG EMS is already sub divided into 18S, 18F, and 18P but I want to make distinct pages for those.
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
I think there's more similarities between medics and pharmacists than there is between Insurgents and Fleet Scouts for example, even just in the sense that Insurgents and Fleet Scouts will never be on the same posting whereas medics and pharmacists may both be on the same posting treating the same patient for the same conditions.

However, please raise those issues with particular articles in the respective submissions threads. This thread should remain regarding the overall strategy moving forward for all MOS' current and future, rather than any particular ones. Personally I think the more MOS' the better and we should be expanding player options as much as possible.

Alternatively, making tiers of qualification with hard time/thread limits or requiring some approval if making them as part of a background would probably work when it comes to the issue of overqualification, as suggested. Or something similar to how you can't refuse promotion in the SAOY, if you have a specialist training maybe you can't step out into a less specialist role. For the same reasons why you can't refuse a promotion.
 

Locked_0ut

Convention Veteran
Insurgents are definitely safe as their own thing.
But yeah, I'm somewhate fine with like writing requirements for qualifications. Especially if they can be handled in solo RPs and stuff. Because I've been on sites where that's a thing and sometimes it can be a pain to find people who are writing the kinds of things you need partners for. It can become a bit of a chore after a while though. Idk.
Edit:
maybe the writing requirement shouldn't be like "here's how I learned the skill" Because that gets boring, but more focus on people using the skill and doing stuff like that.
 

Immortal Cyan

The Cyan Neko
🎖️ Game Master
I’m changing my mind on this. I still disagree with the comparison between pharmacists / medics and insurgents / scouts, but looking at the articles again I see what Eth is trying to do and I don’t see a reason to hold the articles any longer. There’s enough differences among them to warrant making them different MOSes, I think.
 

Ametheliana

Head in the Stars
🌟 Site Supporter
🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
I would request that taking one corp and transposing it into another be limited. If we have units doing something well, making a new unit for the same thing adds little to no RP value from a holistic viewpoint.
 

Andrew

SARPiverse Culture Dreamer
🌟 Site Supporter
Submissions Reviewer
🌸 FM of Yamatai
🎖️ Game Master
I’m changing my mind on this. I still disagree with the comparison between pharmacists / medics and insurgents / scouts, but looking at the articles again I see what Eth is trying to do and I don’t see a reason to hold the articles any longer. There’s enough differences among them to warrant making them different MOSes, I think.
As Wes Stated; he will get to this, once we have his input I will finish the reviews.
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
As long as there's some movement before December I'm happy. If this is still unresolved into the Christmas period it'll stay in deadlock until well into the new year, which nobody wants.
 

Wes

Founder & Admin
Staff Member
🌸 FM of Yamatai
🎖️ Game Master
🎨 Media Gallery
New that I'm on break for Thanksgiving I've had some time to think about this and here's what I'm thinking:

1. The Rikugun should have specific UNIT TYPES, a UNIT TYPE is something like infantry, ranger, artillery, mecha etc, much like there are types of units in the real Army such as MPs, quartermaster, transportation, aviation, command units. What I want to see is a defined unit type that basically says what that unit's function is and what key personnel and equipment it needs to do that function (e.g. an armor unit needs 20 tanks, 20 trucks, 20 drivers, 20 gunners, 1 supply specialist, 5 cooks, 2 clerks, et cetera). SOFT is an example of a miniature unit type page.

The reason why this is important is because we're ending up with a lot of what seem to be "loose" MOSes that don't seem to have a defined place to operate. Or we end up with MOSes in places that have no business being there, like when I let mecha pilots and band musicians on the Resurgence crew and then have been confused as a GM what to use them for and every mission they ended up either isolated from the main away team or lumped in as de-facto infantry grunts. The Uchuugun needs unit types too but one thing at a time.

Even if a unit type page doesn't exist yet, the occupation page should still say what unit type it's intended for.

2. It's okay for there to MOS pages for the RIkugun and the Uchuugun (fleet) version of MOS if they do different things, and infantry is one of those (whereas cook is not). Some MOSes like emergency services are almost entirely planet-based.

3. I want to keep the old patches, I don't like replacing the patches that had art with ones that didn't have art.

4. I regret removal of Geiretsu infantry and I don't see why it was necessary to remove.

5. Never put "There are no prerequisites for this occupation" because there are always prerequisites in terms of physical and mental fitness, the enlistment contract, graduating basic training, and so on...
 

demibear

Staff Member
🎖️ Game Master
Character Forum Mod
I am on the same boat. Yui can always reinstate the Giretsu. I largely removed them since they are mainly an offensive marine force and the new shocktroopers make more sense for the role.
 

Locked_0ut

Convention Veteran
As for EMS they don't have to fully be planet based. Larger ships and space bases can and probably should have them. I'm talking about in crews of like 1000s (also I'm of the mind that fire should be expanded to like a general hazard containment function
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
The original Ranger article didn't clearly define operational areas which is one of the reasons I split it out. I've been very specific in the new MOS articles about which operates where, so that shouldn't be a problem. There shouldn't be the situation of having fish-out-of-water characters.

For the Rikugun ones I can add some more description of what unit type they belong to, then create an actual unit page after the occupation page has been approved.

I'll also add some prerequisites to the pages, but what was intended by the statement "no prerequisites" was "no prerequisites beyond basic training before you begin training for this role".

Demi and I can chat in DMs about Giretsu because I'm sure there's still an important role there to be filled and I don't want to get in the way of that accidentally.

Am I right in understanding that the articles can be taken off hold and reviewed once they've met the above requirements?
 

demibear

Staff Member
🎖️ Game Master
Character Forum Mod
The original Ranger article didn't clearly define operational areas which is one of the reasons I split it out. I've been very specific in the new MOS articles about which operates where, so that shouldn't be a problem. There shouldn't be the situation of having fish-out-of-water characters.

For the Rikugun ones I can add some more description of what unit type they belong to, then create an actual unit page after the occupation page has been approved.

I'll also add some prerequisites to the pages, but what was intended by the statement "no prerequisites" was "no prerequisites beyond basic training before you begin training for this role".

Demi and I can chat in DMs about Giretsu because I'm sure there's still an important role there to be filled and I don't want to get in the way of that accidentally.

Am I right in understanding that the articles can be taken off hold and reviewed once they've met the above requirements?
Let's get the shocktroopers going first since that played a large part in my decision making. They made more sense at busting out overeager Rikugun commanders or meeting a unit making "Last Stands".
 
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