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  • 📅 July 2024 is YE 46.5 in the RP.

Sharie-class Battleship

*sighs* Well, alright, okay. At least now I can picture what you're going for. I still think the weapon loadout is on the heavy side, but at least I'm satisfied that you've thoroughly justified why. Thanks for your patience, Wes.

I have a request, though. I've noticed that the ship has a 'main array', which does practically as much damage as each of its 28 turrets. I think it steals the thunder a bit in regard to the 'main gun', if all the other turrets can match its destructive potential (I know, wide area burst... but I'm referring to the 'exceptionalness' of a main gun in dramaturgic terms).

My suggestion would be to lower the turrets from DR 5 to DR 4. One suggestion I could provide is them being anti-matter turreted cannons like the Chiharu had. The Sharie would boast twice the number, so, it'd be a definite improvement. In addition, the shields of heavy cruisers and carriers like the Eikan could put up with the hammering of a Sharie could deliver for a bit - they'd be somewhat less outclassed.

(( I'd suggest a similar adjustment to the NMX battleship... the two main cannons at DR5 is fine - heck, give the Sharie two DR5 cannons to match because of its pronged prow if you want - but I'd suggest the rest be toned down to DR 4 in the same fashion ))

I think that's a reasonable adjustment. Don't you?
 
Well, the justification I had for the (relatively) low damage of the main cannon is that it can hit lots of enemy ships at the same time. So, against an enemy fleet, it can actually hit by more SP.
 
Other possibly important benefits of going for anti-matter weaponry:

~ It's tested on the Chiharu flagship. Fitting aether shock arrays on turrets is unprecedented so far. It implies less cost for research and designing, and leaves you (possibly) room to expand on the Sharie's weaponry in a future refit.

~ Relying on anti-matter - meaning you have a storage of it on-board - would probably help motivate an alternate power source aboard the Sharie, such as a matter/anti-matter reactor. This is important, because there are technologies out there such as Aetheric cancelling. If something like that comes around and is used against a Sharie, it'll see about everything that's scalar-wave dependent disabled. This is extremely bad for the Sharie.

In effect, such a choice might be less 'state-of-the-art' but would make more sense from an engineer's point of view... basically, it'd amount to not putting all your eggs in the same basket. A little less guaranteed kick in your guns for reliableness could only become a quality for an next generation battleship design.
 
Recently I've been seeing anti-matter more as a liability. It's like carrying huge tubs of the world's most powerful explosive in your car trunk and then driving into a gun battle. The danger of carrying anti-matter onboard was underscored for me in recent Eucharis battles.

Besides, Yamatai's aether technology has vastly improved with respects to aether cancelers...most newer ships use shielded aether generators that block the canceler's effects, and "alternate power sources" are mentioned...which I'm thinking would be matter-to-energy converters or fusion.

I'll consider adding anti-matter power, but I don't think the argument that using a multiple aether shock cannons is dangerous stands.
Fitting aether shock arrays on turrets is unprecedented so far.
Also, the Zodiac-class Star Fortress has used aether shock arrays on turrets since its inception.
 
Wes said:
Recently I've been seeing anti-matter more as a liability. It's like carrying huge tubs of the world's most powerful explosive in your car truck and then driving into a gun battle. The danger of carrying anti-matter onboard was underscored for me in recent Eucharis battles.

A huge liability real world physics need to tangle with everyday currently, with fighterplanes, naval warships and tanks having fuel tanks of their own.

Anti-matter, if treated correctly, is no more dangerous than any other fuel. And it just so happens it pretty much is the most powerful fuel source we have second to zero-point-energy.

Besides, Yamatai's aether technology has vastly improved with respects to aether cancelers...most newer ships use shielded aether generators that block the canceler's effects, and "alternate power sources" are mentioned...which I'm thinking would be matter-to-energy converters or fusion.

This annoys me. It annoys me a great deal. Especially seeing I wanted to install an aether canceller on Miharu's refit. Why? Because the Mishhu apparently use zero-point-energy in the same fashion. It also allowed me a credible chance to have that starship be decent at confronting aether-powered ships.

The ultimate Yamataian rebel destroyer, heh. No one expects a Yamataian ship to field that sort of hardware. This is a large reason why I intended to power Miharu's refit with matter/anti-matter reactors, not to mention the anatomy of those reactors is a lot more compelling than anything we have so far in regards of aether generators.

But what frustrates me more, Wes, is your handwaving: "this was improved and can counter this". You did it for many things... subspace detonators, phasing and now aether canceling. Anti-this, anti-that? Do you see where you're going with this?

You're removing liabilities by simply tacking "my things are no longer vulnerable against these" on them, instead of actual intelligent design - no offense intended. To support our roleplaying environment, I feel you must do better than that.

The right way to have confronted our anti-shield - subspace detonating - ordonnance around was to equip secondary redundant generators on your ships. Perhaps spatial distorsion shields would be knocked out, but within the next moment you could have electro-magnetic and gravimetric shielding in place to compensate for an emergency. Not as powerful, but way better than being caught your pants down.

Versus phasing, you could have done better than ignore it by uprating your weapons and fight 'normally' afterwards. You could've designed new torpedoes that phased themselves (I did). You could've worked on shield expansions so that you could catch the said phasing ships in a net that you'd trigger an inter-phasing pulse (like done inside a ship) to make them visible and vulnerable again, at the cost of losing shield protection.

Regarding aether cancelling, that's a perfectly viable concept that I don't see how 'shielding' your aether power supplies would solve - it goes beyond than that, and even you could tell - looking at the material - that such limitation can be imposed viably. However, it's handily toned down in effectiveness if you plan ahead and outfit your vessel with various methods to sustain itself.

Methods, tools, to confront adversity while retaining those challenges and weaknesses. These are what makes this Roleplay roll and feel engaging, in a large way.

* * *

End line is, Wes, that I would like to see Ketsurui Fleet Yard (you) build this setting's best ships through solid, intelligent designing with contingencies taken into account rather than the one line claim "shielded against this, very resistant to that".

Please promote interactivity, not immunity.
 
Anti-matter is NOT as safe as normal fuels, considerably less so as the more you take with you, the more inertia it has, and the harder it is to store without your ship blowing up (more anti-matter, more inertia, meaning you need even more gear and power to keep it 'stable'). Other fuels can be made inert, so they can easily be stored in high quantity. They can even be frozen so that if your ship gets hit in its fuel tank the fuel breaks away in chunks, doesn't hurt your ship, and is extremely easy to recover.

Also, anti-anti-aether seems fine by me. The majority of these counter-techs are coming from people who have to make up new rules for their stuff so that they can get the advantage. For the most part these counter-techs make even less sense than the tech they are supposed to be countering. In the end you really can't blame Wes for making a defense against something unless you are willing to come down on the people who are just making things up to have a counter to whatever in the first place. In short, the handwaving didn't start here and at this point is established as credible because it wasn't taken down earlier and it seems far better than this kind of handwaving:

Versus phasing, you could have done better than ignore it by uprating your weapons and fight 'normally' afterwards. You could've designed new torpedoes that phased themselves (I did). You could've worked on shield expansions so that you could catch the said phasing ships in a net that you'd trigger an inter-phasing pulse (like done inside a ship) to make them visible and vulnerable again, at the cost of losing shield protection.

The sharie seems to be one of the best designs from KFY in a while because it doesn't break or require any new rules to function. The most you can accuse it of is not following the star ship template which I think is ok so long as it is both reasonably described and Wes doesn't come down on other people for doing the same thing.

So in summery, I do not think anyone should complain because a ship doesn't meet their own personal interpretation of what a star ship should be. You should not design star ships to suit the kind of roleplay you want, you should design star ships based on the IC designer's experiences for a more consistent setting. It makes sense that you would design a star ship to be as effective as possible in its role. Rules and rule systems are supposed to be the things governing the RP experience and establishing the proper 'mood'.

That aside, I'd like to see more labeled pictures in the submission as well as a filled out main weapon entry, the current one is just a stub.
 
On further consideration after listening to the SARPcast, I've decided to remove the FTL deadzone feature from the Sharie's main cannon.

If the Sharie is approved but the cannon article isn't finished yet, we'll just have the battleships running around with inoperative main weapons for the time being until the main cannon gets approved.
 
Or, you could not "install" the cannons yet. As they are being "built" but the battleship was rushed into service to try and stym the tide for the time being. Just have the main cannon junction be modular enough for easy installation and you're good to go until it is written up.
 
Besides, Yamatai's aether technology has vastly improved with respects to aether cancelers...most newer ships use shielded aether generators that block the canceler's effects, and "alternate power sources" are mentioned...which I'm thinking would be matter-to-energy converters or fusion.

...Some systems don't use cancelling, they use denial, which affects the space, not the generator. The alternative source stuff is cool but.. You can't side-step something like that.
 
Wes said:
Your suggestions are appreciated. Tell me what else you want to see on this, specifically.

Uso, given that this thread starts like this, and that what I am addressing is one of the broader design philosophies Wes adopts... I'm actually quite on-topic. If I can broach it here and that Wes sees the point of it, then in my eyes all his future submissions might improve. I want more than just "this is strong because it is" because escalation can go both ways.

"Give a starving man food, and you've given one more day of life. Teach a man how to hunt, and you've saved his life." Sort of.

I've seen plenty of instance where sci-fi settings manage to make do with anti-matter. Your interpretation in my eyes is not any more credible than theirs, nor is it an absolute. Meaning they find ways to make do with it, we can. Especially when it just happens to be the second best alternative to zero-point-energy.

Finally... I extremely resent the hypocrisy and insult behind your post. It amounts to "My preferences are okay, but yours are not. Shut up." I don't feel like bearing up with any attempt at character assassination, however slight. I know you thrive on debates and conflicts, but please spare me - I've had about enough of it.

If you want to offer something constructive to Wes, such as your last paragraph, do feel free to post suggestions. But go lighter on your "he's wrong", please.

* * *

Wes, my last post was addressed to you. I'd like you not to just leapfrog over it. I think brainstorming some more over this would drastically improve the implied quality and superiority of Ketsurui Fleet Yards product. It's really more of a methodology of doing things than anything else... but I'm certain it would really help you.
 
I am not saying you are off topic, I am saying that you are wrong in your assumptions.

My interpretation of anti-matter is more credible than yours because it is based on fact. I am making educated guesses based on fact rather than just making things up based on what I have seen other people make up. If anti-matter is going to be used we should not just make up its effects because we already know what its effects should be. If you are just going to handwave stuff about anti-matter then you might as well use aether sense all you are really advocating here is adding real words to a handwave device.

Of course not that there is anything wrong with handwave devices, but they really should be kept as handwave devices. The entire point of handwaving is to not have to explain it completely. To follow up on this you were bemoaning the use of such devices in the setting them immediately turning around and saying that more handwaving should be done to make up for it. Clearly this is not a good idea.

I seriously think you are capable of thinking out the ramifications of your suggestions better than this. So long as Wes stays within the rules of the setting escalation is ok and should even be encouraged otherwise we are just setting up the setting to never, ever, change.
 
Uso, stop being a disruptive influence and either get out of the topic or, Start talking about the ship. This is not a thread regarding anti-matter realism, or where you can be an intellectual bully and get away with it. One more time, just one more time I see you do this, and I'll make sure you're either warned, or banned from the Tech forum for a little while to cool your heels. I've had it.
 
Personally? I love this ship. It hearkens back to the old sleek design all the other YSE ships had before the current design ethic was brought in.

However, in the armaments section there are two entries that I don't really like. It's the anti-armor turrets and missile racks. They're neblously given the account of "hundreds." While I think proper defenses are a great idea. Just saying "hundreds" means this thing is quite possibly utterly immune to things lesser in size then a Scout ship. (then again comparisons make the scout ship about the size of a fighter to it.)

Seriously, with a ship this big, armors and fighters would rely of hit and run strafing tactics, giving it a deus ex coverfire would make armors and fighters obsolete when these are fielded in combat.
 
I changed it to 100 of each.
 
With the way the Sharie is designed and the position of the main cannon, I can't rightly see it using WIDE CONE, since it'd cut into the two pylons at either side of it.
 
Cora said:
With the way the Sharie is designed and the position of the main cannon, I can't rightly see it using WIDE CONE, since it'd cut into the two pylons at either side of it.
The reason for angled shape of the ship's nose is because the blast actually emanates from outside of the prongs, not just the inside.
 
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