What's new
  • If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at [email protected] or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
  • Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy
  • 📅 May and June 2024 are YE 46.4 in the RP.

Threat of full scale aetheric shock warfare: Mutually assured destruction?

OsakanOne

OsakanOne

Retired Member
Inactive Member
In much the same way we have nuclear weapons, in SARP we have shock weapons capable of total non-recoverable destruction. does a circumstance of full-scale warfare to wipe out another nation with first-strike or second-strike mutually assured destruction exist as a deterrent from any such first strike?

I'm very interested to know what kind of infrastructures, systems and equipment are in place for this sort of thing.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
Yamatai mantains a growing arsenal of aether torpedoes and bombs that rival the real-world Tsar Bomba in power, and they number in the tens of millions. They are primarily oriented at being first-strike weapons and are deployed via Yamatai's millions of starfighters scattered throughout Yamataian space. However, these sort of weapons are normally just, as you said, a deterrent that sits around in Yamatai's bunkers and will hopefully never be used. Yamatai's biggest threats are Nepleslia and Lor, and those are both places Yamatai would never bomb, because in a fight, the objective would be military disarmament and occupation, not destruction. In the case of the NMX, however, the YSE take a more liberal approach and are willing to generally waste everything.

Essentially, while Yamatai doesn't have an automatic response to large scale attacks, its size and distribution, and the sheer power Star Army assets places the Star Army in position to retaliate in almost any catastrophe. Additionally the Star Army doesn't need to wait on the government to declare wars, the military, and to a lesser extent, its fleets, are almost autonomous.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Wes, are we talking about our legacy torpedoes, the AS-7?

SAoY ships mostly made the transition to the Z-1, but why the AS-7 was largely phased out is kind of ICly inexplicable. I kind of like the implications of your above post as to why that might be. ^_^;
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
In terms of roleplay, I'm fingering the idea of Lor constructing a second-strike potential or even first-strike potential.

It wouldn't ever ever be something used but the threat of incidents and escalation between nations could be thrilling -- and in a way, also secure the IC safety of Lor, since I know you don't particularly like Lor and let's be honest, you are just a tiny itty bitty bit trigger happy, Wes. With Yamatai no longer having a unified threat, the tremble of that itchy finger is going to cascade through your nation. I don't think less of you for it: Its just your nature. Every person has a nature. A lot of GM's honestly fear that tendency but I know you're far more concerned with doing what's good for roleplay and good for Yamatai rather than what's bad for Lor.

That said, I would like you to explain your grudge against them. I'm worried my tone here comes off as contemptuous or sarcastic (which isn't my intention at all) but I honestly don't understand the source of your resentment and I do honestly, honestly want desperately to understand so we can move forward.

I think we could play this up in roleplay and have a huge amount of fun with the tension this generates: Our expansions start to stop being exploration and they become power-grabs on the edges of known space, forming fringe colonies and a "wild west" as it were, on the frontiers.

I think the frustration and the tension have huge potential for roleplay. I also think that wild-west could be a melting pot for different roleplay styles and ideas, to explore new concepts we haven't tried before and I think this idea is in line with your demand for YE36 to be the year of exploration.

Even better?

When a new unified threat comes along, Yamatai and Lor would have to put their differences aside. I can see the roleplay and character growth in those actions being absolutely and utterly tremendous and I think it would be the best way to eventually bring the two nations together as real allies: fighting alongside eachother and forgiving one another's pitfalls.

Until such a proving event could happen, Lor's people ICly won't ever forgive Yamatai's shame-avoidance, their posturing or their incompetence at the blood moon which affected almost every Lorath family and trickles through to affect every character played as Lor's 9/11.

I think this could be really fun.

What do you think? I'm eager to find out :3
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Incompetence how?

Yamatai didn't maintain a garrison over Lor because the Lorath didn't want them to. The Lorath then were visited by the Mishhuvurthyar and started negociating with them rather than immediately calling for help. When the Star Army figured that out and came to the scene they did put themselves in the way of what had become a SMX takeover and found themselves in position to intervene when -gasp- the Mishhu actually transposed a volcanically active moon from elsewhere in the Lor system into a decaying orbit of the Lorath homeworld. The Star Army ships present immediately darted into action and did their utmost to blast the moon into debris and then blast at the debris as well with thier aetheric tools and all. It's only on DocTomoe's insistance that any damage was actually incurred on the planet, something which was humored.

All in all, the view you're showing Osaka is kind of insulting... but not to the Star Army, or Yamatai. To Melisson. Everyone involved has been had, manipulated, or abused by her within that scenario. She was playing with a stacked deck, had the tools to do exactly what she wanted, and everyone involved acted very predictably to her manipulations.

In Conan Doyle's books, are the authorities incompetent because the opponent they are measuring to is Moriarty? Or are they outwitted just because Moriarty is just that good? Take your pick.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
@Fred
I'll correct myself: The Lorath people perceived incompetence, whether there really was or wasn't. Its a huge point of contention between the two nations and Lor looked for a scapegoat: that scapegoat was Yamatai, who they blame for not doing a good enough job since they didn't have a complete idea of what was actually happening.

If Melission actually intended for this reaction to destabilise Yamatai/Lorath relations, she really was the genius you make her out to be.

@Doshii Jun
Dissolving conflict isn't good for roleplay:
If we were all friends holding hands, we'd have no struggle and without struggle, there is no story.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I agree with the second half of that, Leigh, but not the first. There still could be a struggle of truly becoming allies, of learning to trust, learning to work together and accomplish things. And there always can be a big bad out there that forces them to really be tested.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I agree utterly and yet I too disagree: We must be pushed further apart before our hands can meet or the volume of the clap will simply not be heard. A silent high-five satisfies nobody.

The worth of the prize is in its volume and how badly it is anticipated. Without heat, neither side is over and nobody will pop.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
A transition wouldn't be instant or easily won, but we all have to start somewhere.

We are not so purely IC and OOC to handle severe fraying between nations without the obvious tension we've already seen.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Truth. Even so, Lor ICly craves independence: to stand on its own two feet and not depend on other nations to defend it. Part of this transition is going to either be convincing the people its okay to rely on a nation you don't trust by making them a people you can trust or by achieving pairity and mutual respect.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Me-lis-son. Just one 'i'.

Osaka, you have a good point over the distinction between IC and OoC perceptions. I guess I'm too used to dealing with DocTomoe when it comes to talking of the Lorath and that bled out on you. Sorry.

Now, to return from tangents: Wes' earlier post pokes at a long-running trend I've seen for the Yamataians: they suck at reponses, replies and whatnot. Yamatai is, in a way, defensively weak, and that's probably why a long offensive against an opponent that couldn't be easily deterred - the Mishhuvurthyar - caused them so much grief. Yamatai military is much more talented at aggressively striking an enemy where it hurts with high-numbers of fast hard-hitting ships; hence the 'strategic strike pools' that take up a good fraction of most of Yamatai's standing fleets - especially the expeditionary ones (those expected to travel on their bellies).

This trend of being aggressive is kind of a way, for me, to look at Yui's life. Yui, the "warrior-poet", whom is now very iconic in her culture, is someone that likely started much more idealistic than she is today... but decades of needing to defend Yamatai from aggressors, to take precautions against those whom could hurt it and so forth likely lead to a much more draconian stance of: "If I see a threat, I'll immediately bash it over the head than let it stick around and give it a chance to hurt me. Also, in general, it's better to attack than defend so I'll have my empire aggressively expand, annex new civilizations into it - whether peaceably or forcefully. If we're the attackers, we're not the ones stuck in a defensive posture, and that makes us safer."

Also, the Star Army's function actually seems to follow this is a degree: for example, assuring the utter defeat of the NMX forces attacking Yamatai was more important than preventing the deaths of the 2 million citizens that happened to die in that conflict. Yui's priority there seems to indicate that defending an homeworld and keeping people safe is less important than investing in the survival of her culture. It's a much more rational/practical, but somewhat dispassionate/unempathic worldview.

To be honest, I think the only real reason the Lorath/Yamatai conflict is even going on is out of OoC consideration. Yamatai has shown precedent to not enduring much posturing from about anyone to the point of making examples, and the only reason it likely has not happen to the Lorath thus far is to avoid the QQing/peer-pressure-based community disapproval that would ensues (what happened to the Freespacers on suspicion that a minute number of them tried to make deals with the Mishhu is a good example of what happens when Wes shows much less restraint). Sad to say, but that is in all likelyhood what saves the lorath more than anything else.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Fred said:
Wes, are we talking about our legacy torpedoes, the AS-7?

SAoY ships mostly made the transition to the Z-1, but why the AS-7 was largely phased out is kind of ICly inexplicable. I kind of like the implications of your above post as to why that might be. ^_^;
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the Z1 and Z2 series weapons. The AS-7 was largely phased out because it was Imperial measurements instead of metric, and because I had DOGA art available for the replacement. Also the Z1 fits on starfighters.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
@Fred
What I'm saying is, I trust Wes not to push the big red button. I think we could do something fun with it.
Everyone's irritated on both sides. I think we can scratch an itch without amputating a limb.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I think that setting-wise it's appropriate the way it presently is.

For a long time now, however, I've viewed the general Lorath spit-in-your-eye diplomacy to be reasonably toothless. I can appreciate that the Lorath are trying to establish independance, but just looking at their map, it seems like they wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance and this seems to be something that's created a certain amount of bitterness (which is very understandable).

When I took control of the Yugumo cluster's fleet, I decided not to poke the serpent.

I also found I was sitting in between two very large dogs. Wes can attest he offered to send some serious backup, and I declined because I didn't want to spark a military buildup or ferment the impression that Yamatai was threatening impending destruction.

Of course impending destruction would be inevitable if Lorath decided to make the first move, but -

Something about this bothers me.

What bothers me is that this military buildup seems geared towards FM's eyeballing each other with their hands on their dicks, ready to unzip and wag.

Tension's fine and great, but where's the story? Are you going to really be able to write a story about this? Is this ever going to happen, come to fruitation, or is it going to generate plots and enjoyment for players? What, exactly, is this the background to? I used to entertain this sort of idea because of TFL, but with only two players agreeing to write a close for the plot with me (admittedly, I dropped the ball) it's beginning to look like we might not even write an epilogue. There's simply not enough interest to do so.

Plenty of people have expressed that they want an independant plot in the area, but I haven't seen them do it.

Plenty of people have expressed they'd like to see some more political action, but aside from the IRC, where is this political action ever going to happen?

Yamatai is invincible to the point of having GM plot armor. It will always be invincible to the point of having GM plot armor. Attempting to chink the GM plot armor just for the sake of chinking it is 100% wasted effort. I want to know who it benefits. I can get behind it if it benefits someone in a plot sense, in a story sense, in the sense of it generating enjoyment for the community. The only enjoyment I've seen come out of the numbers-war that seems to be raging oocly - that HAS been raging for years now - is the enjoyment of the few people who sit around editing the wiki for fleet information all day instead of running plots.

So are the Lorath plots going to use this? Who's going to use this? The IRC? Is there going to be a Lazarus plot? What is this going to feed into, exactly, aside from the general overall political situation changing slightly and Yamatai getting more edgy about their frontier colonies?

Otherwise I'm going to sit here and eyeroll some more.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
RPG-D RPGfix
Back
Top