If Yamatai knew what a bunch of ingrates the Lorath would be, maybe we would have just let the moon hit and destroy the planet. It would have worked out better for us.
You'd wipe a nation of people out just because they were ungreatful on a meta-level, Wes?
Not all information a public are privy to is always accurate.
And what do you mean 'us'? You represent the
entire site with those words, not just your little happy corner of cats and sushi.
I believe what Osaka means is that conflict for plot's sake is frustratingly impossible, not that conflict between factions is good in and of itself (it isn't).
Thank-you.
... First, it sounds like Yamatai is just waiting for a Major Kong to arrive with those bunker loads of unsecured aetheric warheads. Just one mid-level rogue officer with the right clearances and suddenly the planes are away and you might not be able to turn them back. Scary proposition.
Heck, the Lorath haven't even been grateful to her for both salvaging the first contact (sparing them from an all-out ground invasion), stopping the moondrop, and even taking revenge on the person responsible for the moondrop. The High Priest actually sent her some rather insulting gifts last Christmas for her involvement in the appeal to Himiko for the Bill 95 nekovalkyrja body thing. She's gone from well-disposed, to disapointed about the trainwreck but still sympathetic, to coldly indifferent.
"
We should be grateful because Yamatai decided against invading us over a misunderstanding? We're supposed to be greatful they chose to use their brains for once and decided not to be assholes?"
Those are the sentiments of a character I play, in her own words. And I think they sum up the situation quite well in a way we're going to have to acknowledge: What we have here isn't necessary a disagrement created by truths but by misunderstandings and more importantly cultural incompatibilities. It isn't an OOC disagreement as Wes chooses to see it but an IC one and one that
can be overcome.
Many nations fear Yamatai -- "
Yamatai is the big kid with all the toys and if you so much as point your finger in a gun shape, that big kid is going to rip out your teeth with pliers for looking at her funny."
But as we can see here, that fear doesn't translate into respect. In this particular case, what causes the greatest distrust of Yamatai in her character is when Yamatai expect to be admired as heroes on horseback for doing their duty - a duty you should be able to do for yourselves with self-defence - and how incredibly crestfallen they become when denied that admiration -- as if
that was the motivation for their actions rather than any good nature. And if you try and take that so called 'glory' for yourself, you become a threat to her. That's how lots and lots of characters ICly see this issue.
Just imagine for a moment, you're being beat up bloody. Some big strong person pulls you aside, even when you've already taken an utter beating. You have that warmth in your heart that everything will be okay. That person goes and fucks up the person who pulped you. Then when they come back... They want you to tell them how good they were and worship them -- and for you to give them your lunch money as thanks.
Well, that's how it felt culturally; She sees them as children!
Are they children?
No! They're a nation of people fighting tooth and nail to survive,
JUST like everybody else with their own problems to overcome and their own personal struggles.
But this is the key thing: She doesn't know that. I can't inject that OOC information into her head and change her character; that would be metagaming. She is a reaction to the world around her, same as all characters are.
"
Oh, look at how easy life is for them, look at how happy they are in their smug little castle".
She's inherently a hypocrite but in a world this complex, who honestly isn't?
The big issue at the centre of this is this are the core incompatibilities between Yamataian and Lorath culture and the lack of respect going either way:
On a larger less individual basis, it boils down to this:
Lor
despises and fears the nanny-state. While they understand compassion for your fellow Lorath or even Helashio is incredibly important, they're strongly of the opinion that any person who exchanges their personal freedoms and privacy for safety -- either for military purposes or cultural ones (
with the all pervading PANTHEON) isn't someone you can trust or respect when an entire state can know the individual's thoughts at will. You might argue 'if you've nothing to hide, why does it bother you?' but Lor's inherent culture is one that accountability is a private matter, not a matter of the state and that prejudice is the norm on the grounds you do not act on that prejudice and discriminate: Your thoughts are quite strictly your own.
Worse is what the people would describe as Yamatai's shame avoidance: This fear of being seen with egg on your face, this need to posture and posture rather than back down and to speak large and act large. Lor's people view Yamatai as idealistic and childish rather than pragmatic and mature: A child with weapons is a danger to everyone. This mindset probably isn't necessarily true but events like the great lighthouse and Yamatai's refusal for anyone else to defend themselves from outside threats on the same level Yamatai themselves do with aetheric weapons smacks deeply of "no, you can't have it, its mine" which is the very basis of that "jealous maid" mindset Lor sees in Yamatai.
Perhaps the worst offence here though is that Yamatai is a post sacristy society. Hypothetically, want does not exist. And yet the basic ingrained drives for self-improvement are not acted upon: automated weapons that think they're people are sent to war, removing personal accountability and turning war essentially into a game: For war to happen, the people must desire to fight and survive -- and if people are properly informed, they won't join an unjust war. But the Nekovalkyjra can't say no, can they? They'll fight whatever war they're told to.
This slender pocket of a psudo-utopia, Lor eyes with immense jealousy from that freedom from hardship and resentment for how little they choose to do with it.
I can't go into the mind of a country and change their minds on issues like this. This sentiment evolves from lots and lots of players and lots and lots of roleplay -- and its only through compassion and roleplay that if you really want Lor to play well, you're going to have to solve this issue.
Part of that is Lor despises being the underdog. It kills them inside and they won't ever live it down. Worse, Lor doesn't like feeling useless in a war and projection is the easiest cultural answer. To turn the person who makes them feel bad into their percieved enemy.
We know that isn't the answer but mob mentality ICly can only be influenced by IC actions.
The best thing Yamatai can do is respectfully ask Lor if they want to play with the big boys and work together rather than against eachother -- but that would require a change in Yamatai's view of Lor ICly too, which is just as difficult and as complex an issue.
