Approved Character Turinu Lynhart

[Zack]

1. Why does he have sword training if there is no need for weapons?

2. If there is no need for weapons, why are they still making swords hundreds and hundreds of years after they were no longer needed?

3. Why do they still make Seige weapons if there is no longer a use for them?

4. If they still hunt with weapons why did they selectively choose not to research how to make better hunting weapons?

5. If there was no need for explosives in the military sense, what events led up to the creation of rocket fuels and the like?

6. If Seige weapons are still being produced why haven't rocket seige weapons been built?

7. How did technology advance so fast without the war catalyst? Your history needs a LOT of detail on this part.

8. how did they selectively not develop guns?

9. Most importantly, how did they progress from a midevil society to a 1970s style society in 50 years? That leaves no time for expiromentation like you say that they used.

 

[Rei]

Not to mention hunting with bows and arrows won't support a major population center in a civilization that can create space stations.


Edit: Meaning, it says 'flourished agriculturally' if they did that they would have little need for hunting with those sort of weapons if they had stationary crops and domesticated animals as a source of food. If that's so they wouldn't need the weapons. If that's not so they wouldn't be able to support their population centers.

 

[Zack]

Good point

10. How did they manage to support a 1970's style society with only bows and swords? Much less manage to keep the peace and the like.

 

[Yangfan]

I don't usually do this, but I'm gonna side with Zack on this one.

We know these two facts:

1. The tech level is at the equivalent of 1970s Earth. They have the technology to make guns.

2. The last war was fought 50 years ago.

Then we must conclude that the last war was fought with technology that could be found around 1920s Earth. In other words, rifles, artillery, mines, and possibly primitive tanks, primitive airplanes, etc.

There are less improbable explainations for the planet's culture. Instead of saying "they have hi tech but they only used swords in battle", how about "despite their hi tech, swordsmanship is considered an important part of their culture and most children are trained in using swords"?

One other direction to take this could be to make the race completely pacifist, and only consider swordsmanship a form of art. But then they would've concentrated on medicine and social engineering rather than space flight.

One other thing, is the Neolibre genetically related to humans? It's unlikely that they look almost exactly like Geshrins.

Nothing personal, Andrew. We're just trying to help you get this right.

 

[Turinu]

You two seem to literally lack an overall knowledge of things.

We still produce swords and bows today, don't we?

A mass of people still practice with swords and bows today, don't we? It's tradition to learn how to utilize such things, even without war. Why? Because it's honorable, it's fun, and its challenging.

Why did they choose NOT to make better weapons? Have you ever heard of live for the hunt? You can't really live for the hunt if you just shoot something with a gun. Some can, but it's more fun for others to utilize things such as Bows, it's more challenging, and traditional.

While things such as Ballistae may no longer be produced for no needs; things such as swords, staves, knives, etc, can be used in a more traditional sense.

Siege Weapons are NOT still produced today.

As for their swift advancement in technology, war isn't the only thing that can inspire a massive race of tech. Neolibre's were ones to love chronicling history, exploring, and developing new means to do so. They did so swiftly and efficiently, with all intentions to finish their goals.

While a mass of technology borders 1970's America, they can easily advance from a pre-industrial society, to an industrial one.

Just look at our world for example. Back in the 1900's, we were fairly primitive with technology. And as the years progressed, their was a big boom in technology advancement. Sure, it was due to war, but you're basing your ideas based on what happened in our world today.

You tend to forget this is technically a science-fiction setting. It's a whole different ballgame out here, people can advance more than Earth quite easily.

Did you know, that if the Dark Age's on Earth never occured, we'd probably be more advanced than we are now?

In the fifty or so years that Azura had in peace after the war, they used the powerful catalyst of gaining knowledge to develop technology to achieve such.

But like I stated, its primitive tech.

Back on the answering of the questions...

Like I stated, rocket fuels and the like do NOT need to be expanded upon through means of destructive forces. They CAN be produced through different means other than weapons. I don't understand why you tend to think it's the only way. It. Is. Not.

They "Selectively" did not develop guns, because they were not needed. The concept of the gun never came to them like it came to us. They were a honorable, traditional society that wanted to know more of their world. They had no NEED to develop weapons. Guns kill quite easily. One shot, and you can die.

Yes, they also increased their ways agriculturally. Domesticated animals, commerical crops, etc. Azura is a very lush planet; they do not waste like humans do. They use their non-renewable resources sparingly; and their renewable resources no more than they need to. They keep their pollution to seperated areas.

Also, it's quite easy to manage a 1970's society when that society is not directly based on the 1970's, but is generally framed in that technological area, plus/minus things.

You tend to forget Azura is a place of peace, pacifism ideals. There is little crime on the planet, but the Neolibres are quite capable of defending themselves, based on previous upbringing in the past, and traditional means of raising the young.

Sure, they may have police taskforces with swords, or night sticks; but that's about it. They can do quite well in helping keep the peace.

Please keep in mind, Uso, Rei, that not exactly everything has to be mirrored off of the development ways of the Earth.

If it was, what's the meaning of Sci-Fi? The meaning of Fantasy? Fiction overall?

Edit:

Nothing personal, Andrew. We're just trying to help you get this right.

I know, and I highly appreciate such.

I'm just trying to counter the questions and explain as much as I possibly can in a different point of view.

If you think you can come up with better means to alter such in a good way, that would be great. But I still like to defend my creation as such.

 

[Rei]

Anthropology and using Earth as an example are two different things. I never said 'like on Earth' did I? I believe you did, however.

Also, how Humanoid they are without explanation is another issue that Yang was correct to raise.

That being said, I still am seeing contradiction in your replies.

 

[Turinu]

That tends to be something I'm not good at stopping.

I seemingly have been told quite a lot I tend to contradict things I say. I'm sorry if I seem to do that frequently.

Also, when it comes to looking humanoid, They may look it, but they certainly don't have to be human.

They may have trace routes back to the place of origin, or they may not.

Honestly, I don't think I've delved into that part of their history yet, so yes, that is a point to bring up, ^^;.

 

[Yangfan]

We're just suggesting what you're proposing might not stand up to scrutiny. We do have a sci-fi RP here, but things stop being fun if a minimum level of realism and seriousness is not maintained.

Of course not everything has to conform to Earth's history. We don't even have Earth here. It's a long-lost memory in this RP setting. But there is a difference between blindly deferring to Earth's history and insisting on common sense.

If the Neolibre was the dominant species on their homeworld, and I assume they are, then it wouldn't have mattered how much resources the planet had. The population would've grew until there was a need to compete for resources and a need for wars. (Unless they spent centuries more then we did developing social engineering.) If they had wars, then the losing/weaker side would've looked into making more lethal weapons, and the other side would be forced to follow suit.

I'm not the authority on common sense around here though. I'd like to hear from Derran and Thad on this.

I still like to hear about the Neolibre's genetic origins. Also, I believe psy abilities are a tad overused around here and is easily negated. If you want him to have special abilities, I suggest having him train under Fenyaro monks.

There are less painful ways of making your character special. (Isn't everyone special anyways?)

 

[Turinu]

They aren't psy abilities.

Ugh, >_<, I hate psychic abilities.

Psyionics is something MUCH more powerful than this.

It has limited range, and limited capability. Plus, if that limited capability wants to have a certain effect, it needs a certain catalyst to do it.

For instance, if he wanted to say, project a small radius of fire infront of him, he couldn't just manifest the energy. It has no element. He would have to use something like... a lighter, in order to produce the energy as flame.

If the Neolibre was the dominant species on their homeworld, and I assume they are, then it wouldn't have mattered how much resources the planet had. The population would've grew until there was a need to compete for resources and a need for wars. (Unless they spent centuries more then we did developing social engineering.) If they had wars, then the losing/weaker side would've looked into making more lethal weapons, and the other side would be forced to follow suit.

The Neolibre is the only species on the planet, when it comes to intelligent lifeforms. Sure, the population grows, but certain things can be regulated in order to keep things from waisting so much. There would be no need to compete for resources, it's one whole nation united under pacifism.

Their past was filled with wars, and their weapons did evolve, but not to the point of bazookas, rocket launchers, and the sort, but to siege weapons like catapults, rams, ballistae.

They are weapon-inclined, to say the least, and stick to more traditional means, because it's more honorable and challenging, and it brings pride for slaying your opponent in hand to hand combat.

Sure, Archery was frowned upon, but it was one of the means to try and end battles quickly.

I honestly thing raining arrows, which mass so much it literally fills the sky, is much more effective than a gun, and much more painful. More accurate, expecially if they are raining downwards; they'll hit something.

You wonder why arrows were widly used in medieval times. They had guns back then. But they really, really sucked, so they did not use them. Heck, guns back then were more effective for close-combat bludgeoning than shooting (Referring to the Dark ages, not china/japan, >_>.).

 

[Zack]

Why did they choose NOT to make better weapons? Have you ever heard of live for the hunt? You can't really live for the hunt if you just shoot something with a gun. Some can, but it's more fun for others to utilize things such as Bows, it's more challenging, and traditional.

1. If this is so why did they develop rockets and advanced technologies if 100% of the population wants to ‘live for the hunt'. ONLY if 100% of the population wants to live this way could no guns be developed.

A mass of people still practice with swords and bows today, don't we? It's tradition to learn how to utilize such things, even without war. Why? Because it's honorable, it's fun, and its challenging.

2. SO then there still is a want for weapons. If people STILL want to use weapons they logically would look for better and more powerful weapons.

As for their swift advancement in technology, war isn't the only thing that can inspire a massive race of tech. Neolibre's were ones to love chronicling history, exploring, and developing new means to do so. They did so swiftly and efficiently, with all intentions to finish their goals.

3. They jumped 1000s of years of technology in 50 years. That is total BS by anyones standards.

They "Selectively" did not develop guns, because they were not needed

4. That is contradicted by your statement that they use weapons for fun. Wouldn't the crossbow and bow lead way to the gun if they wanted weapons for fun?

Sure, they may have police

5. That right there CAN'T be true if the race is the way you say it is. If there is still any person on the planet that isn't completely pacifist then that attitude would spread and guns would be developed. Additionally less than lethal weapons would be developed to counter crime, thus leading to guns.

6. Again, domesticating animals, agriculture, and all that without the gun would not be able to support a large population moving from medieval to industrial revolution over the course of 50 years. Wild animals would need to be killed in large numbers to feed a population boom of decreasing farmers and increasing workers and thinkers.

The race started out as simply ok, but this is now the second biggest load of crap I've ever seen on this site. There is no way a rational person could have suspention of disbelife in something like this. You need to seriously rework the race's history and Detail EVERYTHING, I can't stress that enough.

 

[Yangfan]

They aren't psy abilities.

Ugh, >_<, I hate psychic abilities.

Psyionics is something MUCH more powerful than this.

It has limited range, and limited capability. Plus, if that limited capability wants to have a certain effect, it needs a certain catalyst to do it.

For instance, if he wanted to say, project a small radius of fire infront of him, he couldn't just manifest the energy. It has no element. He would have to use something like... a lighter, in order to produce the energy as flame.

So... it's a weak psy ability? As in, manipulating matter through sheer will? Or is there another explaination?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, although it's hard to be diplomatic when you're sleep-deprived on a Friday evening. Anyway, I'll try to revisit this topic tomorrow.

As for Zack (Uso), he, um, always talk like that.

 

[Turinu]

As for Zack (Uso), he, um, always talk like that.

I'm slowly learning to tune him out when needed, >_>.

1. What, you think they all want to focus for the live of the hunt? It's a pasttime, like baseball.

2. You seem to have a odd sense of logic, o.o;. That's not true at all. Sometimes the old school, traditional way is the best way to go. They still want to use weapons because when it comes to tradition, they are needed for such. Tradition does not neccesarily mean the want to increase the destructive capabilitiy of that weapon.

3. Not at all. Pre-industrial civilizations utilized all sorts of technology, in which we base off of today. America didn't truely become a developed country until the 1900's, when they had a massive tech boom. They developed MUCH differently, but MUCH faster than other races may have developed. So it is not BS. It depends soley on their determination, progression, and will to suceed.

4. The bow, like I stated, was a weapon not truely liked during the wars, but afterwards, archery and hunting became a sport with it. It was a means to them to end a battle as quickly as possible. I state again. THEY DEVELOPED in many different ways than other people had developed.

5. When you show me a pacifist nation out there, in any anime, TV show, or real life, that does not have a police force to protect its people from internal crime, then show me. Until then, all I simply have to say is "Yes, there CAN be police if the race is pacifism.

The ideals of pacifism involve war. The entire planet is anti-war. Having a police force for internal conflicts within the nation such as crime, is not unheard of, and, in fact, is very sensible. No, guns would not be developed in such a manner. I say -AGAIN!- They DEVELOPED in many different ways than other people had developed.

6. It's easy to domesticate animals without a gun... What gives you the idea you need guns to domesticate? To farm land? You don't. I'll just count that as a misread. As long as they are bred properly, and maintained properly, they can support their needs.

After all, they have a whole planet full of wild life that didn't get destroyed in situations such as rain forests being destroyed ala clear cutting.

I appreciate your comments on my race, and your intentions to try and help; but when you go to begin using rude comments against it, that's going on a whole new different level.

I ask you to refrain from posting here again, if all you're going to do is belittle what I'm trying to make better. But if you wish to help, minus the rude comments and strict hostility; then please, continue to post here.

Get your ideals straight as well, please. Things develop differently in many different places; I hope you know that. It developed swiftly and efficiently due to the hard work and determination of their people.

-------

Pacifism:
1. The belief that disputes between nations should and can be settled peacefully.

2.
A. Opposition to war or violence as a means of resolving disputes.
B. Such opposition demonstrated by refusal to participate in military action.

Having a police force does not go against the ideals of pacifism when it is there to protect the people from internal strife, ^_^;.

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Development:
1. The act of developing.
2. The state of being developed
3. A significant event, occurrence, or change.
5. Determination of the best techniques for applying a new device or process to production of goods or services.

Nowhere in developing does it mention time, but it does mention determination.

-------

I'm sure you already know such definitions, but to make sure, I'm posting them to make it clear.

 

[Zack]

1. What, you think they all want to focus for the live of the hunt? It's a pasttime, like baseball.

Even in Baseball there have been technological improvements. How is it possible that in this massive technological boom that no on decided to create a gun? Even if no one wanted to use it a society in a state of massive technological development would have created many for the reasons of pure science, just to prove they can.

2. You seem to have a odd sense of logic, o.o;. That's not true at all. Sometimes the old school, traditional way is the best way to go. They still want to use weapons because when it comes to tradition, they are needed for such. Tradition does not neccesarily mean the want to increase the destructive capabilitiy of that weapon.

This makes it sound like the race is rooted in tradition. How can one race be rooted in tradition and yet want to advance so much technologically? Tradition is the reason for the dark ages in Europe and tradition preventing the development of weapons would also impact other related fields like metallurgy, explosives, ext.

The logic I used is hardly odd, If your race does not think like this then why would your race bother to build new things at all if they don't care about improving the tools that they use?

3. Not at all. Pre-industrial civilizations utilized all sorts of technology, in which we base off of today. America didn't truely become a developed country until the 1900's, when they had a massive tech boom. They developed MUCH differently, but MUCH faster than other races may have developed. So it is not BS. It depends soley on their determination, progression, and will to suceed.

Don't even try and defend yourself here. Your race went from the dark ages to an industrial society in 50 years. 50! Even Leonardo and Jules Vern were not able to design that far ahead in 50 years much less have a chance to build that far ahead. The only way they could possibly have something like that would be to have outside help, and that isn't in your species history.

4. No matter how they developed there would have to be someone there to physically stop people from developing guns. There is no logical reason in your specie's history for why they would selectively choose not to develop guns.

5. You have two choices here. If there is truly no need for guns and everyone is happy go lucky there should not be a need for a police force. On the other hand if there IS a police force then why wouldn't criminals be trying to develop better weapons and the police trying to develop better weapons to counter them? Don't say tradition here because if they were following the traditions of the pacifist nation they wouldn't be committing crimes and if there was a tradition that would allow for such a thing there would be a high rate of crime.

6. It's easy to domesticate animals without a gun... What gives you the idea you need guns to domesticate? To farm land? You don't. I'll just count that as a misread. As long as they are bred properly, and maintained properly, they can support their needs.

Compare any other old society that was pre-black powder with a black powder one. The gun vastly speeds up the killing of the animal and the rounding them up. It also greatly speeds the capture of flesh from roving heads ie buffalo bill. Why wouldn't they develop weapons to aid in hunting? I know, tradition, but in an age of massive technological development why wouldn't they create devices to aid in hunting?



Your latest comment just doesn't mesh with your race. Do you understand how stupid you sound when you say your race for some reason chose not to develop a certain technology for no reason? Much less that your race progressed THOUSANDS of years ahead in technology in only 50 years? It would take more than 50 years to create the infrastructure to even begin to attempt to build a space station much less launch it.



And, if your police force won't use violence then are they just there to talk down criminals? Your society would destroy itself long before they got a rocket into space if thats the case.

 

[Derran Tyler]

Y'know, I was asked to settle this issue, but the rest of you seem to have it under control.