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Rejected Submission 4th Elysian Empire

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Zack

Inactive Member
Submission Type: NPC group
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:4th_elysian_celestial_empire

Faction: 4th Elysian Empire / USO
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? No
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? No

Notes:

One of the NPC groups that has shown up in the western starmap area during the course of the 188604 plot. I'm just now getting around to putting together what I have on them into wiki articles.
 
This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
Hey, I was trying to accommodate a plot where I had multiple posters is separate timezones and trying to have them keep pace with one another; which meant "not a fast posting pace". So, there was only so much content I could cram in if I wanted to create a 5 OoC years storyarc. That meant a lot of potential ideas had to go on the chopping block, including the Malakh. I had momentum on the Daughters of Eve, so, that's the direction I kept going instead.
 
500,000 to 5,000,000 Patricians is an extremely impressive population for a first generation colony world (the bottleneck here isn't the amount that are willing to go, but the amount that are able to be hot-dropped from colony ships without any time to lay down roots and build up local industry, or maybe the amount of massive colony ships that are available to transport them and support them for the first few years), but... perhaps not by SARP standards, where we let things like this slide all the time.

The amount of ST-clone generated slaves added on to that initial population as padding really is arbitrary, since we haven't worked out all the relevant technology in enough detail to estimate how quickly new clones and robots can be produced and added to the population. Hundreds of millions per year is still ludicrous unless they're self-replicating with new generations every three months or so, but whatever--it's a superscience excuse for new antagonists, we're not going to follow this to the logical conclusion of them taking over the galaxy within 5 years. Though it might be an interesting topic for the intelligence community to discuss when they catch wind of it.

Zack is still resisting the previous suggestions we made, so I don't think it's fair to complain that we're not adding enough constructive criticism--he's just been saying 'no' to it, and is trying to steer us toward saying things that don't contradict his initial plan in any way and might even support it. Generally speaking, the goal of constructive criticism is to tell someone better ways of achieving the goal they originally set out to achieve, not telling them how to get away with avoiding using any better way of achieving said goal. We're giving him the benefit of a doubt and assuming he does actually want to create something that's useful to all of us, not something that suits him alone, that we might also be able to use if we compromise with him to the point of virtually kissing his feet.
 
A player sent me this (and I hope he doesn't mind me posting and using it):

Things see that need to be sorted out is
  • An exact figure of how many Natural Patricians are in his faction
  • How much in the way of resources they took
  • Along with ST tech and the Seraph tech, what other Elysian technology are they bringing with them
  • If they abducted any citizens form Elysia when they fled (Because Elysia would have the right to try to get those people back)
Next are things that would be nice for story purposes to get done now or soon after the approval
  • Information on the leader of this faction, considering he likely would've been a prominent figure prior to leaving
  • Some information regarding anything out of their system they would've done (because Elysia and by extension Yamatai probably would've kept an eye on them. Technically I think they'd still be an enemy of Yamatai)
If you can give meet the above (the figures don't have to be exact), I'm willing to sign off on it.

Also please do your best to address Frost. Some of the stuff Frost asked for definitely would need separate submissions but at least give us a "stub" version of answers that's a sentence or two.
 
  • An exact figure of how many Natural Patricians are in his faction
I'm going to go with 1 in 10,000 is a natural patrician. The rest are lower class slaves / ST copies / ect. It'll be easier to break down what the other part is once I have articles for the new body types.
  • How much in the way of resources they took
Probably a starbase and a handful of starships. The starter answer is 'enough to get them going' and the end of the answer is 'I won't be reusing any Elysian ships'.
  • Along with ST tech and the Seraph tech, what other Elysian technology are they bringing with them
Whatever Elysian tech they had on hand. They'd have access to everything from around YE:34.
  • If they abducted any citizens form Elysia when they fled (Because Elysia would have the right to try to get those people back)
No one was abducted.

  • Information on the leader of this faction, considering he likely would've been a prominent figure prior to leaving
The faction is run by a senate, this is included in the submission.
  • Some information regarding anything out of their system they would've done (because Elysia and by extension Yamatai probably would've kept an eye on them. Technically I think they'd still be an enemy of Yamatai)
See the reading order page or the GM page for what the Elysians have been up to. In short they've been carving out their domain among the various colonies out west.


--

There is also already a stub entry for the planet on the article. But if it gets us past this I'll move that over to a new article.
 
Okay, once this stuff is in the article I'm pretty satisfied. Can we get an OK from you @FrostJaeger ?
 
I think at least a summary with possible links to the things they did needs to be there. People should not have to comb through forums to find out the RP history. You need to at least link directly to the area in question, Preferably accompanied with a summary.
 
Great suggestion! It's important to add RP history sections to all articles on the wiki.

Thanks Zack for making the requested updates!
 
The reading order page doesn't have summaries until like the last 3 arcs <.< and they're all from the position of the players, not the faction. So it doesn't offer us much insight into what the faction itself has done. If they haven't done anything really significant in RP just say that. But if they have just type a simple summary of those things.
 
Even if there's not one main leader, it might be a good idea to drop a few NPC names under the Politics section. Like I know the Yamataian Senate page (which is probably out of date, but it's a good example at least) has a list of the characters and what they represent. Maybe just list a few of the NPC senators that have come up in RP (if that's happened)? I'm sure there's some important ones that have held down a seat every year so far, one that has a majority of seats/votes compared to the others, or maybe there's a troublemaker or hardliner people need to worry about. Maybe just list their name and one broad description for them so people have some idea who they are?
 
I think at least a summary with possible links to the things they did needs to be there. People should not have to comb through forums to find out the RP history. You need to at least link directly to the area in question, Preferably accompanied with a summary.

The reading order page doesn't have summaries until like the last 3 arcs <.< and they're all from the position of the players, not the faction. So it doesn't offer us much insight into what the faction itself has done. If they haven't done anything really significant in RP just say that. But if they have just type a simple summary of those things.

  • An exact figure of how many Natural Patricians are in his faction
I'm going to go with 1 in 10,000 is a natural patrician. The rest are lower class slaves / ST copies / ect. It'll be easier to break down what the other part is once I have articles for the new body types.

50,000 Patricians is a figure I can certainly agree to.

  • How much in the way of resources they took
Probably a starbase and a handful of starships. The starter answer is 'enough to get them going' and the end of the answer is 'I won't be reusing any Elysian ships'.

Which starbase are you referring to, @Zack? One of the eight Rampart-class Fortresses? I'm curious about the same information regarding the "handful of starships" you mentioned - which classes (remember that to the best of my knowledge only "modern" ships were actively in service by that point in time), from which fleet did they originally come from, and exactly how many is a "handful?"

Additionally, would you mind adding an "Assets" section to the main page detailing your answers to the above questions, includes the "fleet" and "massive starbases" mentioned here, and the "Grand Fleet" mentioned in the history section, @Zack?

I'm not trying to "move the goalposts" or burden you with the task of creating any additional submissions for their new ships or for their structures - I'm just curious as to what exactly they have available in terms of assets.

  • Along with ST tech and the Seraph tech, what other Elysian technology are they bringing with them
Whatever Elysian tech they had on hand. They'd have access to everything from around YE:34.

Wouldn't they only have access to anything prior to or in YE 32, seeing as how that's when their "exodus" occurred (as written in this planning post)?

  • Information on the leader of this faction, considering he likely would've been a prominent figure prior to leaving
The faction is run by a senate, this is included in the submission.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with what @Reynolds said here - would you mind at least using the Random Elysian Generator to come up with, oh, five or six of the more prominent senators? As @Reynolds wrote in the aforementioned post:

I'm sure there's some important ones that have held down a seat every year so far, one that has a majority of seats/votes compared to the others, or maybe there's a troublemaker or hardliner people need to worry about. Maybe just list their name and one broad description for them so people have some idea who they are?

  • Some information regarding anything out of their system they would've done (because Elysia and by extension Yamatai probably would've kept an eye on them. Technically I think they'd still be an enemy of Yamatai)
See the reading order page or the GM page for what the Elysians have been up to. In short they've been carving out their domain among the various colonies out west.

As @Syaoran and @Wes pointed out...

I think at least a summary with possible links to the things they did needs to be there. People should not have to comb through forums to find out the RP history. You need to at least link directly to the area in question, Preferably accompanied with a summary.

The reading order page doesn't have summaries until like the last 3 arcs <.< and they're all from the position of the players, not the faction. So it doesn't offer us much insight into what the faction itself has done. If they haven't done anything really significant in RP just say that. But if they have just type a simple summary of those things.

Great suggestion! It's important to add RP history sections to all articles on the wiki.

Thanks Zack for making the requested updates!

...there, in my humble opinion, needs to be something that describes what the 4th Great Elysian Celestial Empire has done thus far in the setting. It doesn't have to be a novel, of course - but would you please add a couple of short paragraphs (three or four sentences, plus links to the appropriate forum threads) describing what's occurred in the setting thus far, @Zack?

There is also already a stub entry for the planet on the article. But if it gets us past this I'll move that over to a new article.

@Zack Would you mind doing this as well and then submit it for review, please?

Once the additions/concerns/etc. detailed above have been addressed (with the exception of the Patricians, of course, given that it's already been resolved) I'll be ready to go ahead and approve this submission, barring any further concerns raised by others. :)
 
Yes, I do mind. Moving the goalposts is exactly what I expected from you, and you certainly delivered.

I am not interested in you making an agreement and then backing out of that agreement. I am also not interested in repeated myself as nauseam.

I do expect you to honor what you said and give approval.
 
We were so close, but this thread is just causing drama so I'm killing it.
 
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