Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military?

[Doshii Jun]

Answer can be found here. In sum: No, they do not, but caveats apply.


If a Neko or a Neko couple have a youngling, and they're currently not on active duty (they're on the Prestige system or salary, taking time off from their service), does the Neko youngling have to serve in the Yamataian military?

The ethos is "the Empire gave them life," but for the youngling, that's not the case (directly, anyway). Especially with NH-33, who can produce younglings with basic programming instead of the military suite.

That leads me to think that younglings are not duty-bound to serve, even if some want to.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

I do believe you need to read the proposed constitution, which, after passing, will mean Imperial Edict carries the immediate weight of law. It's in there.

*And*, Nashoba, it was written by Wes. So not only is it written, it's also Wes's.

"The power to issue Imperial Decrees, including the declaration of war, which shall have the immediate power of law until such time the Senate may revise them at its discretion."

This is power number 7 retained by the emperor, or empress, of Yamatai. Presently there is an overwhelming motion to approve this constitution.

I am citing it here because very shortly it will be law and it's a workaround that could incite a draft.

Furthermore the article I cited in reference to the civil rights of the Nekovalkyrja in question was passed into law by popular vote and presently resides in the Wiki.

EDIT: The constitution actually passed on November 5th and may be found in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=8475&start=10


So everything that I have so far stated is entirely true as referenced to the present Yamataian law.

 

[Nashoba]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Decrees are not Edicts. Decrees are technically not Laws, they have the force of a law, but are not a law, and can be revoked at the will of leader. Hence not a law.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

"The power to issue Imperial Decrees, including the declaration of war, which shall have the immediate power of law until such time the Senate may revise them at its discretion."

I do not see how, with the above official wording, your argument carries very much weight.

Imperial Decrees carry the immediate power of law. I see no restrictions on what Imperial Decrees can be. But I do know that if the Senate wants to overturn them it needs to vote on it and that takes a certain amount of time.

If the Empress wants to issue a draft, she damn well can; the senate can overturn her afterwards, of course.

 

[Nashoba]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Power of Law is not the same as Law.

By the Constitution, laws are passed by the Senate. So my point is true. If the Senate doesn't pass a law on subject, there is no law for said subject. It may have the power of it, but it is only binding as long as the issuer wishes it to be.

Besides this is going off topic, and at this point, I really no longer wish to discuss this topic. Its been discussed, a decision was made, then the decision was revoked, then a decision made again, and revoked, and then a year ago a decision was made, and now it is about to be revoked. I have better things to to with my time. The arguments are the same, the end results will sadly be the same.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

And if the Empress wishes it to be valid, because she's the one who made the Decree in the first place?

The issuer in this case is the empress. It requires an 80% vote to overturn in the Senate. Do not presume to correct me when I have clearly been doing the research, and even personally written some of these citations; first you said there wasn't any such law and when I corrected you and cited references, you fell into the same mistake I did; not citing references.

There is no definition in the Yamataian constitution restricting what the Empress can, and can not, decree. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Now that paper has the weight of law behind it.

You're right, though; this is off-topic. My point is simply this;

At present, Nekovalkyrja younglings are protected by force of law, as minors, from forced military service, unless they themselves choose to earn their citizenship in that manner. After three years of civilian schooling, however that is to be accomplished by their guardian, they become Plebains, and may apply for citizenship in the ordinary fashion, which often does not constitute military service. Except in the case of a draft which could possibly be issued by the Empress, or the Senate (having the power to write law, you are quite correct), they can not be forced into service against their will, because that would utterly disregard their civil rights.

 

[Nashoba]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Not if Wes maintains that Nekovalkyrja NH-33 and NH-29 are military equipment. Then his rule that Younglings are only to produce troops holds.

Adieu

 

[Gallant]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

In that case he's going to have some rewriting to do.

 

[Wes]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

At present, Nekovalkyrja younglings are protected by force of law, as minors, from forced military service,

Why are minors exempt from military service? Historically that was not the case (Nekos used to be considered minors for their initial 8 years of military service).

II. A Sapient Being, defined for the purposes of this bill as the result of an AI's self-realized or externally induced sapience, shall be considered a minor for purposes of citizenship and eligibility for military service until the passage of three years.

This says that the being is minor. However there is nothing about minors being exempt from military service in there.

 

[Wes]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Okay, how's this sound? I took out the requirement for Nekovalkyrja kids to serve but they're still eligible for the draft:

All Nekovalkyrja bodies are property of the Yamatai Star Empire and their use is at the pleasure of the same. Users of Nekovalkyrja bodies must relinquish their Nekovalkyrja body if requested by the Yamatai Star Empire or Star Army of Yamatai by way of transfer to another body or into the network (for those who want a bodiless existence).

Requirements for obtaining a Nekovalkyrja body:

1. Being a citizen of the Yamatai Star Empire is a prerequisite to use of a Nekovalkyrja body. Any Nekovalkyrja who changes allegiance to another nation must return the Nekovalkyrja body. Failure to do so is a capital offense.

2. A Nekovalkyrja body may obtained by an employee of the Star Army of Yamatai or other government services with approval of the director or manager of such service when use of Nekovalkyrja bodies are justified (e.g. National Police may use Nekovalkyrja bodies because of the chance of combat).

3. Any person using a Nekovalkyrja body is subject to being recalled for military service during times of national crisis or war until such time they transfer to a new body. Any Nekovalkyrja offspring (younglings) are subject to the same.

4. Certain models of Nekovalkyrja bodies (such as stealth models), designated by the Star Army of Yamatai, must be relinquished prior to separation from the military.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

I think that this should be addressed as a loophole in Yamataian law and put to the Senate.

 

[Andrew]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

The solution you've presented here works Wes. Something I wanted to point out, somewhat related:

2. A Nekovalkyrja body may obtained by an employee of the Star Army of Yamatai or other government services with approval of the director or manager of such service when use of Nekovalkyrja bodies are justified (e.g. National Police may use Nekovalkyrja bodies because of the chance of combat).

With Yamatai having suffered so badly in the War. Nekovalkyrja very well could be utilized by a government agency devoted to the Empire's recovery. (Something I intended to propose upcoming). So that could be an example of the "other government services".

 

[Wes]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

As requested: I made a Senate bill to vote on.

I think it's pretty good, but if the bill fails, I'm going with allowing neko younglings to be civilians.

 

[Wes]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Alright, we banged out a law in the senate:

Requirements for obtaining a Nekovalkyrja body:

1. Being a citizen of the Yamatai Star Empire is a prerequisite to use of a Nekovalkyrja body. Any Nekovalkyrja who changes allegiance to another nation must return the Nekovalkyrja body. Failure to do so is a capital offense.

2. A Nekovalkyrja body may obtained by an employee of the Star Army of Yamatai or other government services with approval of the director or manager of such service when use of Nekovalkyrja bodies are justified (e.g. National Police may use Nekovalkyrja bodies because of the chance of combat).

3. Certain models of Nekovalkyrja bodies (such as stealth models), designated by the Star Army of Yamatai, must be relinquished prior to separation from the military.

4. For the purposes of this bill, Nekovalkyrja refers to:

NH-2 series
NH-7 series
NH-17 series
NH-18
NH-22M
NH-27 series
NH-28 series
NH-29 series
NH-33 series, and
Future Nekovalkyrja

Therefore, the answer to your original question, Doshii is that Nekovalkyrja younglings do NOT have to join the military.

Neko younglings must immediately apply for citizenship and are born demilitarized.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

*waves small flags*

Huzzah!

 

[Andrew]

Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Yamatai, getting business done. Like a boss.