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Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military?

Doshii Jun

Perpetual player
Retired Staff
Answer can be found here. In sum: No, they do not, but caveats apply.


If a Neko or a Neko couple have a youngling, and they're currently not on active duty (they're on the Prestige system or salary, taking time off from their service), does the Neko youngling have to serve in the Yamataian military?

The ethos is "the Empire gave them life," but for the youngling, that's not the case (directly, anyway). Especially with NH-33, who can produce younglings with basic programming instead of the military suite.

That leads me to think that younglings are not duty-bound to serve, even if some want to.
 
Solution
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Alright, we banged out a law in the senate:

Requirements for obtaining a Nekovalkyrja body:

1. Being a citizen of the Yamatai Star Empire is a prerequisite to use of a Nekovalkyrja body. Any Nekovalkyrja who changes allegiance to another nation must return the Nekovalkyrja body. Failure to do so is a capital offense.

2. A Nekovalkyrja body may obtained by an employee of the Star Army of Yamatai or other government services with approval of the director or manager of such service when use of Nekovalkyrja bodies are justified (e.g. National Police may use Nekovalkyrja bodies because of the chance of combat).

3. Certain models of Nekovalkyrja bodies (such as stealth...
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

As far as I've known it, and as many times as I've been told it, the answer has always been 'no'.

Younglings, not being made directly by the empire, have no obligation to join and serve in the SAoY, however, they are usually encouraged to, and it seems that them not serving isn't the common choice.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

This requires some clarification to the law and/or neko pages, but here's my opinion: Because Nekos can choose their offspring's species...

- NH-31 are not obligated to serve (note: You can make an NH-31 that looks like a neko).
- The NH-33 is a military model. NH-33 offspring are obligated to enlist in the Army.

This keeps nekos as a race of veterans, preserving the nature of the Nekovalkyrja species.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

And what if they were a retired NH-29? We've still got quite a few NH-29s running around. It doesn't seem like they have a choice in reproduction (NH-29s can only pop out NH-29s).

It would seem to be discouraging civilian NH-33s to have Neko younglings since they are, seemingly, whisked away into the military after birth. I don't think we're trying to encourage the Imperial Japanese "Offer your life to the Emperor" mentality, are we?
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

My take:

NH-29

I wouldn't think the Star Army would require the offspring of a phased out model to join the military. However it should be suggested that some kind of mass update be made to ensure that NH-29 are born without any kind of weaponization or military knowledge. Chances are if the offspring of an NH-29 was military bound they would upgrade to the NH-33 body at the time of enlistment anyway.


NH-33

In the article: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:nh-33y

It states:

Military

The mother can impart to the youngling the equivalent of basic military training. This is done by imparting her memories of the period from activation to completing training. The Youngling will have the same skill set as the mother had upon graduation. Personality will also be similar to how they were at that age.


Civilian

The mother can impart just the initial memories that she had upon activation. This allows the youngling to be able to move, speak but leaves the personality more childlike as Nekovalkjyra typically have upon creation. The youngling is physically identical to its mother, but will develop its own personality.

This gives the impression that the Civilian NH-33Y is different than the Military. Why would the civilian be differentiated if both required entrance to military service?

Now, that being said. I agree with Wes in terms of keeping the Nekovalkjyra a veteran race. This preserves a big part of the 'military-focus' of Yamatai's culture. I have difficulty seeing why it might be considered wrong for them to have the 'Give your life for your Emperor' mentality. While forced military service might be considered unacceptable in our culture, a military/warrior minded culture like the one Yamatai has would doubtfully find it unacceptable, especially when there are civilian bodytypes available that would not be required to enter military service.

So, in summary - The article does differentiate, which if Wes's opinion (which I agree with) is accurate the article should be upated to reflect it.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Kind of continues to promote the 'Neko are nothing but war machines' Ethos, Wes if that is the case.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Soresu said:
Kind of continues to promote the 'Neko are nothing but war machines' Ethos, Wes if that is the case.

I question if it would be seen that way, only due to the fact of there being other options available.

Also, since it is possible for an NH-33 to have a civilian life post military.

Possibly -- The NH-33 could very well go serve it's nation for a fixed minimum enlistment time then move on to a civilian life. Many countries even in today's world have mandatory duty for their young men and women.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

We have had plenty of NH-29 younglings who have grown up and not been required to serve. I know at one time the policy was that they could be drafted if the Empire needed them. But otherwise they were free to choose their path as long as they stayed within the Empire.

The same should go for the NH-33's, otherwise why did I have to include a built in discharge protocol that reduced their abilities to a 'civilian' level.

Civilian

The mother can impart just the initial memories that she had upon activation. This allows the youngling to be able to move, speak but leaves the personality more childlike as Nekovalkjyra typically have upon creation. The youngling is physically identical to its mother, but will develop its own personality.

I know in the past Wes has maintained that Younglings were intended to replace troops, but that mind set doesn't belong anymore. Because saying that any youngling must join the military is tantamount to slavery, which Yamatai has already declared illegal.

A manufactured NH has a debt to the Empire we accept that, but an NH29/33 who is born does not. Forcing them into the military against their will or forcing them to change bodies, a) goes against the whole reason for the discharge protocol, and b) would very likely foster anger and resentment against the Empire who treats them so callous.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

The youngling = slavery argument only works if you view Neko reproduction in the same ways as you view human reproduction. It is not. Neko reproduction doesn't create a new unique being but rather creates a copy of the original. If the original was a warbot, by all logic the copy will be a warbot. And most importantly, I think the Neko themselves would see it this way.

Wes said:
This requires some clarification to the law and/or neko pages, but here's my opinion: Because Nekos can choose their offspring's species...

- NH-31 are not obligated to serve (note: You can make an NH-31 that looks like a neko).
- The NH-33 is a military model. NH-33 offspring are obligated to enlist in the Army.

This keeps nekos as a race of veterans, preserving the nature of the Nekovalkyrja species.

We have our answer, guys.

Also, I'd like to note that the push to have it any other way kind of removes one of the things that make Neko unique to play. Being able to have Neko who are civilian from birth destroys the philosophical dilemmas associated with the race. So I agree with Wes. War models are war models (33, 29, previous), civilian models are civilian models (31, 22, 1).

Sigma said:
I don't think we're trying to encourage the Imperial Japanese "Offer your life to the Emperor" mentality, are we?

We should be. Otherwise it's very "not my Yamatai."
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I get the angle where Wes wants to retain the nekos within the Empire. It's a race unique to his faction and one of its draw. That'swhy I can relate with the nekovalkyrja losing her 'weaponization' if she parts ways.

Forcing a newly born nekovalkyrja that's actually 'born' into the military when circumstances don't compel it by necessity (you're born on a warship, and stay there, and the warship is in danger, and said youngling joins her effort to the crew, etc...) seems wrong to me. I get that if you're in a military environment, you practically need to pitch in just by common sense.

But that doesn't fit in other things regarding the nekovalkyrja, such as their suposed love of discussing philosophy and talking it out, hanging out in libraries and liking paper-borne media. That was said in their background fluff, but it never seemed to apply.

Maybe service is encouraged. I can get that. What I don't get is others that CAN get attached to thier daughters being forced to send them to war when there could be alternatives. Our focus is mostly at the front-line, but as a setting, we really don't have as much emphasis on the second-line roles a nekovalkyrja can play when not at war, or not waging war.

My point mostly being that being born a neko should not consign you to being the kind of cannon-fodder nekos seemed to be back in YE27. Especially not in a nation dominated by one mega-corporation that does things 'by nekos for nekos'. It's certainly not what I'd see as a good expression of neko-suppremacy either.

Even the nekovalkyrja race, for all thier nationalistic loyalty, likely are prone to wanting to defend thier younger ones and shield them from the scary things out there. Why? Because Yamatai is ruled by nekovalkyrja. Because human or not, nekos are capable of love!
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Fred said:
Forcing a newly born nekovalkyrja that's actually 'born' into the military when circumstances don't compel it by necessity (you're born on a warship, and stay there, and the warship is in danger, and said youngling joins her effort to the crew, etc...) seems wrong to me

...

Even the nekovalkyrja race, for all their nationalistic loyalty, likely are prone to wanting to defend their younger ones and shield them from the scary things out there. Why? Because Yamatai is ruled by nekovalkyrja. Because human or not, nekos are capable of love!

As Wes has said in the past and as the reproduction page covers, the parent Neko can choose what model their youngling is born into. If the mother wants to pretend to have a human-style family, she can give birth to a civilian model youngling. If the mother wants to simply create another soldier then she'll make it a military model. Our parents make us do stupid things we don't want to all the time.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

That doesn't compute to me. And I don't say that in a mean way.

I think there is such a thing as a nekovalkyrja being okay with being a nekovalkyrja. A nekovalkyrja wanting to have an offspring to propagate her own race, and not settle for something more like the human race.

I also think it's fairly natural for a nekovalkyrja mother to expect her offspring to follow in her own footsteps. If all she new was the Star Army, and that she deems it a worthwhile environment and purpose for her daughter, she might encourage said daughter to go there and perhaps find the same sense of fulfillment and purpose she found.

That I get.

However, we roleplay these characters too. And one unfortunate fact of serving the Empire in the army is that there is a lot of pain, heartache and suffering involved.

Would I really want my child to go through that? Would following my footsteps, gaining something in my sense of purpose, and so forth be something I'd truly want to cling to,and appreciate my society forcing on my child?

Yui is likely one of the nekovalkyrja that has suffered the most in this setting. She has made the Star Army her life. She's very pro-neko. She's had multiple youngling daughters. Many of them have followed after her in that same army. Some of them died in that same service.

Yui is likely a great driving force behind the notion that nekovalkyrja born out of self-cloning would be soldiers, but she's had those daughters. She's loved those daughters. She's had the heartache of losing them. It strikes me as counterintuitive for her, with her baggage, to overly encourage that thought.

The army is important. If there were no nekos in it, Yamatai wouldn't survive. That is important. But the neko is Yamatai's dominant race, nd as much for her daughters as for the nekovalkyrja that have been created/born after her, Yui seems to wish for a better future where they are all safe. Where there's more to life than just fighting and the purpose of being ready to fight.

Yui could be proud to see her race be powerful, but she might also want to avoid those whom are misguided to go wayward and benefits enemies with their prowess. Then it'd be nekos still loyal to her beloved nation that would be endangered by that. This is a good reason to support the demilitarization mechanic of the NH-33 Tennyo.

But forcing a youngling born of her to go for military service, to be obligated to, especially if her environment could offer more. That just strikes me as appalling - and that's with me working hard to take a in-character point ofv view. I dont think the OoC musings of 'how should things go' shown thus far in this thread does this question enough justice.

I think that if Yui answered to a higher authority, and that this authority demanded that Yui's younglings be forced to serve in the military, Yui's more naturalreaction could go along the lines of "Who are you to tell me how I should raise my children?" - even if Yui might agree with the notion.

Sorry Wes. Not meaning to tellyou how your character should think. But to me its very a suspension of disbelief thing.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

All I can do in reply to that is reiterate that the mother Neko has a choice between giving her offspring a civilian model or a military model body. You are defining Neko culture in one way when Wes seems to have envisioned it in another, which is that they view all NH model beings (at least the later ones) as members of the same race. That a Minkan can be created with Neko ears is evidence of their acceptance of the "Minkans are for civilian use Tennyo are for military use" mindset rather than a strict "we are Neko hear us roar" one.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Being a Nekovalkyrja is an honor. It's something you earn. You can't get a Nekovalkyrja body without serving. Being soldiers and vets is what the Nekovalkyrja race is all about. If you want a military grade body you got to be in the military.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Let's clarify what we've got going on here.

If an NH-33 Neko mother wants to birth a military-grade youngling, that youngling has to serve.
If that NH-33 Neko mother wants to birth a civilian-grade youngling — who is Nekovalkyrja, but not weaponized — that youngling does NOT have to serve.
If a Neko mother who is not an NH-33 births a youngling, that youngling is required to serve, despite past canon suggesting otherwise, according to Nash.
Is that all accurate?
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

That seems right. According to this, your step 2 would be defined as a Minkan with Neko traits (the ears).
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Conceptualizing that Out-of-Character and living it In-Character are two different matters entirely. When what sounds like disconnected ideas come about that my characters then have to live through and make sense of, it moves me to object.

Being a neko is an honor? Wes, that's not a very realistic point of view.

Nekos have been mass-produced as combat fodder since at least the Battle of Nepleslia (and still are - that's the basis of the planetary Legions). They've been gruesomely tested on by Irim/SARA and things like Project Sweetheart and elements in Scorpio Star Fortress have obviously shown differently. Even in thier conception, nekovalkyrja were made to fight the battles humanity wouldn't have to fight.

Nekos are born, and then soon after often (ship sprites being the most common type of 'created' neko) are shoved through some of the worst fighting anyone should have to face ever (the Second Mishhuvurthyar War, especially during the NMX winning streak) while just barely being mature due to the breathless pace of thier early lives. They angst, they hurt, and when lucky they can desperately reach out for comfort. If they are lucky, if they live, they might happen to survive long enough to realize that thier lives really aren't their own and either care enough about patriotism to get over it, or do something else.

So... honorable? However you wanted to express your idea, Wes, I think you chose one of the worst words for it. Nekovalkyrja are stronger and perhaps they could adhere to the noblesse oblige ideal of putting themselves in harm's way since they are better prepared for it than others (that I can relate with since it's actually what transpires in the RP) - but being a neko isn't an honor. It's a terribly unfair burden. Also, 'doing good' is not by principle being well-intentioned or honorable if you're forced to do it!

If you tell me the above is not true, then you haven't been reading your own roleplays.

* * *

I'm starting to get a pretty damn good idea of why Doshii Jun asked the question now. If I've ever seen a powerful incentive that made the True Nekovalkyrja Empire appealing, it'd be this thread over anything else.
 
Re: Do Nekovalkyrja younglings have to serve in the military

Doshii Jun said:
Raz, you misunderstand.

I want this part explained. This suggests a Nekovalkyrja can simply be demilitarized/weaponized, but remain a Nekovalkyrja.

That's why I was specific with my wording. Younglings =/= Minkan children.

Doshii, I think you're the one misunderstanding the article you linked to. The subhead "civilian" is under a higher entry detailing what memories the youngling is born with. Nothing there talks about their inherent military capabilities being muted, just their learned ones.

During conception the mother determines the level of education of the youngling.

Thus, the "Military" and "Civilian" subsections refer to what the mother chooses her offspring to know at birth.
 
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