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Pirate group

R

Rine

Inactive Member
Me and a friend were discussing the feasibility of a pirate group operating within this particular world setup. The group would consist of a shuttle/freighter of some sort that can hold a few suits of power armor (potentially modified, you know how outlaw techs love to mess with stuff). They would use the guise of a damaged freighter/shuttle to lure in passing liners, and then raid them.

The question is feasability wise:

The hyperfold technology, is it a straight linear jump between world A and wolrd B not affected by other bodies, or do you have to have a series of jumps to get where you are going? This is vital because if you were going to fake a damaged freighter, it doesn't make sense to have it near a planet, so if you can simply jump from planet to planet, that kinda ruins the idea.
 
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Uso Tasuki said:
I don't know what your talking about, but CDD, hyperspace folding, whatever, your not going to be anywhere near enough to a gravity field to be effecting in transit. the odds of you even comming remotely close to a planet is astronomical! A start and an end point is all that is needed.

Quote:
you have to account for gravity wells and large masses along the path


Literally, running even remotely close to something like that in transit is so improbable you have a better chance of winning the lottery... 27 times in a row.
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First: Really, the chances are worse than that of a human being winning the lottery 27 times in a row? Twenty seven? Exactly? Really? Exactly how probable is that? Please don't go making up numbers for stuff that you haven't done any research on and try to tell me that it's a fact. That's just plain immature. Fabricating research is shameful.

Now, it should be common sense that, if one is to travel past/through a great many star systems in a straight line, as is proposed apparently by the method of FTL (Faster Than Light) transportation that Uso so strongly espouses as infallible, one would more than likely collide with one or more interstellar bodies in a very messy manner. There are, in our solar system alone, 9 planets, a star, and an immense asteroid belt. Many systems have two or three asteroid belts, dual or binary stars, larger stars, more gas giants, pulsars, quasars, the occasional black hole or white dwarf... crossing anywhere near any of these could be potentially course-altering if not directly life-ending.

Course-altering? you stammer. How could this be? Well, there's this nifty little physical law called the Universal Law of gravitation! It says that all ojects in the universe exert forces on one another just by existinga nd having mass. Thus, you pass within a few lightyears of a gass giant, your ship is angled a good .5 degrees to your left, you fly onward for another, say, 10 parsecs and all of the sudden, when you arrive where you think you ought to be, it's several trillion kilometers away from you. Hmm. What a delimma.

So yeah. You better account for masses near your route, and you'd better chart a good clear route through said masses, or you are either gonna miss, or you're gonna die. Getting bumped off course and caught hardcore in a Black Hole's gravity well would end any voyage pretty painfully.
 
This is why most mythos have any faster than light travel ending at the edge of the solar system to allow the ships to burn inwards, avoiding the serious gravity wells of the inner parts of a solar system, and thus, giving lead times on any arrival of help.
 
You will experiance gravity pulling on you from every bit of matter in the universe but that will be negligable. Even inside of our solar system, line of sight to only a few stars are obstructed by the entirty of the planets orbiting our sun. Even less would be obscured by other stars. I don't think you understand just how big space is, and the odds of running even remotely close to another star system.

Only on the longest of trips will you even have to consider the gravity from other star systems. At which point that becomes irrelivent because you will be using a TTD, Fold drive, or gate to get from point A to point B. Each of which have their own ways of bypassing those problems.

The speeds we are talking about for the CDD are 100s of thousands of times C. A force vector of only a single C or less, even if it is experianced, won't lead to a cource change of anywhere near a tenth of a degree, especially because those speeds mean that any outside gravity will only quickly spike and then return to negligable.

Even considering this minor course change the end result is that you will be reasonable close to your target and can use slower than light drives or a quick FTL hop to get to your destination.


To be exact. If you pass through the event horizon of a black hole traviling at 100,000C your course will change 6.42x10^-6 degrees. Meaning that you will be one lightyear off course for every 100,000 that you travel. With modern sensors that is hardly important.

The top speed of a Chiharu is 200,000c
 
also remeber inertia is in place. Which means pretty much that any object in motion will stay in motion until a considerable force stops it. However at such a high speed unless you enter a black hole directly you would pass right right by it with extremely minimal effects.
 
I'm taking that into consideration, the force vector from the black hole would only act upon the ship for a brief moment. It isn't anywhere near strong enough to pull it into orbit.

btw, my calculations were wrong. The change in angle would be only 6.42x10^-6 degrees.
 
You will experiance gravity pulling on you from every bit of matter in the universe but that will be negligable. Even inside of our solar system, line of sight to only a few stars are obstructed by the entirty of the planets orbiting our sun. Even less would be obscured by other stars. I don't think you understand just how big space is, and the odds of running even remotely close to another star system.
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What does line of sight have to do with gravity? Gravity is based on the mass of each object, lessened by the distance. If you travel by jumping around solar systems, then yes, you are fine. But jumping right to a planet in danger? No, that will cause serious problems. Getting within the solar system causes you to run right into mr. gravity. Our original question was how fast they could respond to a pirate attack...and well, if you have to burn in system, thats more than a few seconds response isnt it?

You still havent addressed the issue of running through objects on the way. Going at the speeds you are addressing, anything solid will end up like a projectile weapon, peircing your ship. So, if you jump into the solar system, you run into all the junk that tends to float there.

Slower than light drives i wont argue against, because, well, the original subject was response time.


And if nothing else, lets consider the balance issues here people....if you want to have people rp an opposing side, which is VITAL to any military rp, you have to give them a chance. Instantaneous reponse of every military unit in the navy is just....ludicrous/
 
Alright, first, presuming you can travel at a velocity equal to 100,000*C m/s, which number, btw, is 29,979,245,800,000 m/s, you must consider the effects on the human body of acceerating to such speed. The entire traveling entity, in fact, would be crushed if you tried to use the usual "Jump" to lightspeed style of travel. That makes this hypothetical ship totally impossible.

Now. Had you knowledge of the Law of Gravitation, you would notice that nowhere in the formula is a velocity measurement ergo the speed of the ship doesn't matter for purposes of calulating the Forces involved. Please also note that you state
A force vector of only a single C or less, even if it is experianced, won't lead to a cource change of anywhere near a tenth of a degree, especially because those speeds mean that any outside gravity will only quickly spike and then return to negligable.
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which makes abundantly clear that you have not even basic knowledge about which you speak; you just tried to put a force "vector", which I'm pretty sure you don't know what is either, in units of velocity! You can't measure a force in m/s!! Now, look at the Law:

Fg=G*m1*m2/(r^2)
where Fg is the force of gravity, m1 is the first mass, that of your ship, m2 is the second mass, that of the offending body (in your case a black hole), G is the gravitation constant and r is the distance between the two bodies of mass.

This means, for you who need it explained further, that the speed of the ship doesn't affect the force applied to it by the planet. Now, please recall, if you have ever heard of this, that F=ma; that is, the force applied to an object is equivalent to it's mass multiplied by the acceleration it will gain as a consequence of said force acting upon it. So, as your theoretical ship, surely weighing no more than an ocean liner of similar size, say, the Titanic, which massed a mere 41,730,498.04 kg, passes within a lightyear from a smallish black hole with an effective mass of around 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg, it's safe to say that it will gain some acceleration.

Really, now. The science says that instantaneous FTL transportation is practically impossible and that not having to worry about the masses in the way is even less probable. Too, just for roleplaying reasons, having a perfect instant transportation (not to mention the completely, totally, inarguably impossible FTL communication system you mentioned) is going to be extremely restrictive to the players.

I appeal to your reason. This just doesn't make sense.
 
You can't measure a force in m/s
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In the brief moment you pass through the event horizon you will be moving at 100,000m/s forward and 1m/s towards the black hole. You have been accelerated to this speed because of the gravitational forces at this point. This is a BASIC force vector problem, leaving your course changed insignifigently.

A m/s can be used in force vector equations.

On top of all of this you are completely ignoring the technology used in this.

Finally, you clearly have no understanding of the basic concepts at use in this RP. Further debate on this topic is pointless if you can't even grasp simple geometry
 
You're right, it doesn't make any sense. Welcome to the fantasy that is a space-themed anime-based game universe. Abandon all science, ye who enter here.

Okay, okay, so I myself am guilty of throwing out lots and lots of physics and numbers and generally tooting my own horn but that was because I study to become an aeronautics engineer and it was bugging me.

Let's summarize. Pirates constitute an opposing force, opposing forces of any significance have proven to be a detriment to the wellbeing of this game (as well as, I theorize, leading to the ludicrous growth of technology within the universe), therefore in the best interests of the game there will be no significant opposing force.

And there you have it.
 
We are not ignoring the technology, i have yet to hear you describe how the technology works in great detail to either of us. You just quote speed and mathematical formulas, and have yet to produce the magic wand that makes all this feasible, or even efficient, after all, current projections for the most efficient systems for extremely small ships have the energy required for faster than light travel to be quite tremendous, even for close to light speed.

7ly/min? Yeah, thats probably around the equivelant of several suns worth of power. I bet that goes over well when your power plant blows.
 
I would like to draw your attention to inerta dampeners, Zero Point Energy, and the basic principals on which the FTL drives work. Obviously you have not read the discriptions in the starship sections or understand how they work.

This thread has gotten off topic and filled with really, really, dumb responces.
 
Uso Tasuki said:
I would like to draw your attention to inerta dampeners, Zero Point Energy, and the basic principals on which the FTL drives work. Obviously you have not read the discriptions in the starship sections or understand how they work.

This thread has gotten off topic and filled with really, really, dumb responces.
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Inertia Dampeners: Pure sci-fi.

Zero-Point Energy: Same

Principles of FTL Drive Technology: Same

Conclusion: Science tastes great. Star Army tastes great. However, they are two great tastes that do not taste great together.

As for the second part, we are all guilty of that. Some more than others.
 
Alright, first of all, you have an army rp. If you dont have some sort of opposing force, then its no different than a tavern rp, lots of talking, no fighting.

Second, lets indeed get back to the original arguement...that pirates arent feasible. Uso stated that it would take seconds for the reinforcements to arrive.

Since you so requested i looked up stuff, i did, and i took a nice gander at the star systems part. Lets say our pirates raid neplisia, assuming there is no military presence at the time (i know, big assumption, but lets be theoretical), and reinforcements are sent from damasca. Those star systems are pretty damn close together, in the spectrum of things, far closer than pirates would raid.

The page states that a shuttle will arrive there in 2 days. They give the starship there at a speed of 30 times the shuttles speed. So, the reinforcements would arrive in around 2-3 hours, and the page itself states 'not counting sublight travel'.

A few hours is plenty of time to get a planet raid off, in and out, if you know you're target, and catch them by surprise.
 
Diver you obviously don't know what your talking about, nor have you researched any of this otherwise you would know that all of it is based on real science and is workable. If your small mind can't comprehend the science behind it then please leave this thread.

Planetary raid... again... the Iori star fortress can transport units there instantly.

In conclusion STFU....newbies.
 
You kids aren't going to win against Zack. He's been here longer and knows how this place works. I don't know all about the science stuff, but I know one thing: if you try to create an "opposing force" you'll get your ass handed to you the first time you RP it.
 
Actually, an opposing force is quite feasible....once you get that silly Iori space station out of the picture...but im letting tech handle that one, i got a headache after reading that description, im not even a scientist and it had me going 'wtf'

And by the way, being here longer does not mean your logic is any better, or the system you base it off of make any more sense.
 
Rine, listen to wolf, he knows what he is talking about.

You don't have the experience to know just how things work here. Even if you remove the Iori you still have SA garrisons on all of the planets and no real way to develop an opposing force, ship wise, tech wise, or even population wise.

Believe me when I say the people who have been here longer are much more knowledgeable about things than you. The same goes for virtually everyone on this site.
 
I don't know about the science, I said that. What I mean by being here longer is that we know what will fly and what won't. For instance, we know Wes will simply destroy anything that might threaten the GSA, YSA or whatever it's called now. The tech level is so ridiculous that you aren't going to get anything accomplished with space-based rebels. You'd have better luck on the ground, at least until Wes deploys the NH-whatever-number-it-is-now. If you succeed, it will likely not make sense. It will be because Wes wanted you to.
 
Lets not forget the nodal system which can automatically toast any person who is doing something bad, on any planet or ship with the system, instantly.
 
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