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Pirate group

Rine

Inactive Member
Me and a friend were discussing the feasibility of a pirate group operating within this particular world setup. The group would consist of a shuttle/freighter of some sort that can hold a few suits of power armor (potentially modified, you know how outlaw techs love to mess with stuff). They would use the guise of a damaged freighter/shuttle to lure in passing liners, and then raid them.

The question is feasability wise:

The hyperfold technology, is it a straight linear jump between world A and wolrd B not affected by other bodies, or do you have to have a series of jumps to get where you are going? This is vital because if you were going to fake a damaged freighter, it doesn't make sense to have it near a planet, so if you can simply jump from planet to planet, that kinda ruins the idea.
 
A credible opposing force isn't going to be possible unless you make them able to decisively defeat the Star Army in battle - and doing that would make them so ridiculously powerful that there's no reason why they couldn't destroy the entire Star Army in one fell swoop.

The SMX or whatever Wes calls 'em was only credible because Wes said they were - the actual technologies behind their operation should've gotten them slaughtered en masse off the bat.

The alternative, and arguably less popular, method is to tone down the Star Army to the point where it isn't absolutely god-like in its abilities (can enter battle areas instantly with millions of ships and trillions of mecha, each of its units packs enough firepower to render inhabitable or destroy small planets at the very least, can move at FTL speeds in the heat of battle and fire accurately, etc).

There's no room or need for strategy and tactics the way this RP exists today. If you can't recognize the fact that you're basically sitting at the top of the tech tree and there's nowhere to go then I don't know what else to tell you.
 
Ok, now were being reasonable, and not attacking each other personally, i like. You are assuming it would come from within yamatai. Alien forces that they do not know about, slow theft through various illegal means to bring about an army, the like.

I can understand wanting to keep the main force viable, but that doesnt mean that it should be omnipotent, conflict leads to fun rp.

And remember, shifting off new people as simply newbies and not giving credit to potential ideas, instead of helping them along to understand the situation, will simply scare people off from staying around. If noone listens when they want to help make the rp a better place to have fun in, why would you want to stick around?
 
I can understand wanting to keep the main force viable, but that doesnt mean that it should be omnipotent, conflict leads to fun rp.

Tell that to Wes. I hope you don't think I was attacking you because I responded after Zack called you newbies and I was on his side. I don't know you, but you'd know if I was attacking you. We were trying to help you understand the situation. The fact is, you need Wes' approval to do anything. Some people don't like to accept that, some people like to say it's a pessimistic view, but it's the truth. I'm not trying to say you won't be able to talk with Wes about it. There's no real point in debating about it without Wes here to decide what'll happen.
 
I hold no personal grudge against anyone, arguements get out of hand and off topic, etc.

Wes seems to have a lot of great ideas, but even with this great site, that doesnt mean he is infallible, or unable to see reason, but then again, i am quite new here, so maybe some assistance in talking him into toning down the SAY would probably help. As it is right now, yes, it is an unbeatable force....puts it on a rank worse than the empire from star wars, since this empire's death stars dont have a weak point, and can wipe out entire races with a mass produced system.
 
Uso Tasuki said:
Diver you obviously don't know what your talking about, nor have you researched any of this otherwise you would know that all of it is based on real science and is workable. If your small mind can't comprehend the science behind it then please leave this thread.

So build me one. Oh wait, you can't. And neither can anyone else.

Sci-fi is an amalgamation of two words: Science and fiction. Does all this stuff have a rooting in basic concepts of science we experience everyday? Of course. Does it exist right now tangibly or can it be brought about in a short amount of time or at least tested in real-world? No, hence the fiction part.

I'll concede that you've been on this board a lot longer than I have, Tasuki. I'll concede that you've read a lot more of the source material than I would care to. But I'll also concede that you happen to let your mouth shoot off half-cocked, drop arguements you can't counter, and then pull fresh and unrelated arguements out of your posterior at whim.

But hey, what do I know? Small-minded newbies like me can't possibly grapple with concepts like this. You wanna take this outside, my YIM is always open. No sense cluttering up this thread with anymore drama.
 
I've said previously to simply IM me with any direct questions.

The point of my arguments is that this stuff is workable and not totally impossible like some have said earlyer.

Abandon all science, ye who enter here.

Is what you said earlyer then you go on to say that this stuff is based on science? which is it? Do you even know?




While I'm at it (not like there is an admin present anyways) the original topic of this thread has been answered and no further discussion is needed. This thread has been in need of a good locking for a long time.
 
This stuff is NOT workable: if it was workable (synonym: feasible), you could build one or have a prototype of some kind.

Everything in this RP just about works simply because of administrative fiat.
 
There have never been unbeatable superweapons. Never shall there be. Simple rules of invention, necessity, and parallel technological advancement tell us this.

Truly, most of the tech in this rpg exists solely for the convenience of the players/Star Army.
 
Rine, ask Wes about starting a pirate group when he gets back. It will most likely have to operate outside of Yamataian space.

If anyone has a problem with anyone, resolve it in private.
 
I've been thinking about this RP and how the spacefold and communication systems actually work, and I think I came up with an idea that's rooted in an accepted scientific theory perfect for Sci-Fi.

The Einstein, Podolsky, Rosen paradox (Or EPR paradox).

I transcribe from the xenosaga database.

A paradoxical theory presented in 1935 by Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen in support of their argument that quantum mechanics still falls short in its explanation of reality

A simple theoretical experiment to illustrate this paradox consist of a particle decaying into two identical particles. Because of the internal angular momentum or spin of the particle must be conserved, the two decaying particles will have two opposing spins.

As the particles decay, they are launched in opposite directions. When the Distance between the two particles reaches a great distance, say several lightyears, the spin of one of the particles is measured.

At the precise moment of the spin of one particle is determined, the spin of the other can be determined to be in the opposite dierection because the two spins must equal zero.

Herein lies the paradox, since quantum mechanics dictations that the intrinsic property of an entity cannot be determined until it is actually measured. Bydetermining the spin of the second particle several light years away without measuring it, the experiment would introduce the existence of some strange force that can transmit the information of the first particles spin to the second particle faster than the speed of light-- a force that cannot be explained by quantum mechanics.


=====

And really, Star Wars Ep. IV told you the proper way to navigate hyperspace. Very Carefully. After all, Hyperspace has the "Gravity Echo" of every major body in the universe. Such as planets, stars, black holes and other large objects. Careful course calculations can make sure you avoid them
 
I have actually discussed this paradox with one of my former physics GSIs. The problem is, you don't know which particle (spin up or down) you're getting until you measure it. In order to get a message through, you'd have to tell the other person which particles to read, and in what order, and we're back to square one. You can't send information faster than light in this way, only random noise.

So yes, according to quantum mechanics, random noise can travel faster than light. Big deal. I can get random noise anywhere. :)
 
Yay! Let's all jump on the quantum mechanics physics train!

Another thing wrong with the (in)famous EPR Paradox is that it naturally assumes that, in Einstein's own words, that "God does not play dice with the universe."

To which Niels Bohr replied, "Einstein, don't tell God what to do."

To clarify:
Einstein could not accept that there were some things in the universe that simply could not be accounted for. He disliked that aspect of quantum mechanics (and zero-point energy would drive him into conniption fits, since he won't accept that energy just came out of nowhere) and 'fuzzy math/logic' was not something he was fond of either. Einstein was a proponent of determinism, the philosophical idea that everything happens because an unbroken chain of prior events caused the event to occur as it did due to the laws of causality.

It was his belief that everything in quantum mechanics had a 'hidden' undetermined variable behind it that caused things to turn out as they did. It is this belief, and a rejection of the idea that the universe is a collection of probabilities and/or potentials that allows the EPR Paradox to function as a theory assuming that the two particles are both unaffected throughout their journeys (or that what happens to one happens to the other) and that when the waveform collapse happens once the particle's spin is measured then the information would be transmitted at faster than light speeds to the other particle.

The line of thinking necessary for the EPR Paradox to function essentially blackboxes the universe into a sterile environment and doesn't account for a lot of variables that could effect either particle or the universe they interact with.

That aside, I'm going to play the 'No Cloning Theorem' (put forth by Wootters, Zurek, and Dieks in 1982) as a means to throw something up against EPR.

No Cloning Theorem essentially states that you cannot, in any way, create a copy of an arbitrary unknown quantum state and is the principle under which quantum cryptography functions. This is because to make a copy of anything, you need to know what it is you're copying and by observing the state of an object you collapse the system into a set range of values of the 'observable'.

Consider this explaination, which I shamelessly ripped off Wiki because it's a lot easier on the eyes than what my textbooks tell me:

If Alice wishes to transmit a "0", she measures the spin of her electron in the z direction, collapsing Bob's state to either |z+>B or |z->B. Bob creates many copies of his electron's state, and measures the spin of each copy in the z direction. If Alice transmitted a "0", all his measurements will produce the same result; otherwise, his measurements will be split evenly between +1/2 and -1/2. This would allow Alice and Bob to communicate across space-like separations, potentially violating causality.

It basically states that to even begin measuring the state of his particle (in this case, an electron), Bob would have to produce copies of it which is not feasable since it already violates the No Cloning Theorem and that the copies would all have to give him the same result and in doing so it would violate the hard-and-fast probability of Einstein's thinking and venture into the realm of 'fuzzy logic' (this is roughly tantamount to throwing x number of coins coins up in the air y number of times (wherein both x and y are 'large' numbers so as to satisfy that rule of probability) at once and every single one of them coming to land on their sides each time). This sort of thinking is why any sort of superluminal messaging using the EPR paradox wouldn't function as there would be no way to carry the message in this form unchanged over vast distances unless you blissfully ignore the concept that there will be change to the particles as they travel.

Like Yangfan said, all you'd be sending out would be noise.
 
This just got really scientific, Science is my weakest point in school so I will say it makes sence in a way what you are all saying but what is this supposed to prove? Also both theorys are impossilbe to prove, and how are bob and alice supposed to have any communication with a small particle? Also I know this question may sound stupid but how are you going to measure the spin of a particle if you can't even see it?
 
1. that was star wars. SW can not be used as a scientific referance. The hyperspace sceen you are talking about was more to increase the tention of the moment instead of for real scientific reasons.

2. As for faster than light communications... I'm just going to stick with raido waves through a wormhole. After all you have to belive in wormholes right?

3.I do think quantum mechanics blows (I also dislike string theory but that is a different story). The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Weirdness seems more like a 'we pulled something out of our posteriors' kinda thing. I prefer the penrose interpritation which (to me) makes a lot more sense.
 
Do you have a link to the Penrose Interp? I'd like to read it.

True, I'm a newb to actual physics, I'm also a fast learner.
 
Get in touch with me over Y! I have a good magazine article about it that I will scan in for you.
 
The pirate discussion seems to be over. Topic closed.

Rine, again, don't be afraid to ask Wes about starting a pirate group when he gets back.
 
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