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[Star Army] Fleet Plan

Navian

Well-Known Member
The main reason this helps is because it gets rid of inactive setting elements so that they don't rot suspension of disbelief and fill space that could be used for RP, and makes it so the fleets that are left can all be used easily. The rest just looks like insistence that bad things are going to happen if anything is done based on some past experience instead of based on what can be and is expected to be done.

Saying that there should be no merger because of a loss of autonomy and applicability and the destruction of player content is like saying a cake shouldn't be baked because too much flour will be used, and too much salt, so it won't cook properly and taste bad, and besides, it will catch on fire. Well, maybe, especially if everyone in the kitchen is fighting and the only person who's actually working on the cake doesn't know the recipe, but it's not how baking a cake has to be. It's not the way to do it that would make sense, either.
 

Gunsight1

Potato Salad
@Zack I have no intention of having the Sakishima or Takamagahara break away from Yamatai, that would not serve anyones interests.

@Navian, the Tenth fleet is in no way an inactive setting element.

I think at this point continuing to go back and forth over this is going to do nothing more than create frustrations and arguments between people when it should not. Lets let Wes come to his desiscion without throwing more stuff at him.
 

Navian

Well-Known Member
I know. The Tenth is not the main reason for the new fleet plan, it's peripheral. The thing about the Tenth Fleet is that it's a fleet that's the size of a task force, so it could be rolled into another fleet without changing character. I think that would benefit it, since it would be part of something it could operate with instead of standing alone without any resources outside itself. It's not like GMs are required to use those resources even if they might be available, it just gives them more options.

I'd agree that no one seems to be budging, so it might as well be left be.
 

Fred

Retired Staff
In my capacity as moderator, I say the following:

Maybe we said what we had to say, and that we've started to repeat ourselves. There's no argument here that will be won out of endurance, but as you've made all your views quite clear, I recommend you wait for Wes to have the time to return to this thread and rule on the merits of keeping fleets with active plots intact.

Seriously, Staff have started getting reports for this thread, and it hasn't deserved them. There's no trolling going on, just people that seem to really care about minutiae because they feel it is important to the experience. Chin up, people, and have more respect for one another's opinions even if they diverge. Wes asked for feedback, you've given it, and it'll be factored in.

If you want to keep this thread up, why not address a different point of what Wes wanted feedback on?
  • What do you see as the strategic goals of the Star Army?
  • What roles should our fleets have?
  • How many fleets do we actually need?
  • Should we ditch the term "expeditionary fleet" and just have some regular fleets that do expeditions?
  • Should logistics' fleet get a number? What about SAINT's?

Otherwise, please wait for Wes.
 
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Gunsight1

Potato Salad
Thanks @Fred

As for the other stuff, I think for stratiegic goals, primary with the oncoming war, to defend the empire from this new threat and mount an offensive against them

I think the expeditionary title is dependent on the fleet's role. Expeditionary implies that said fleet is intended to operate outside Yamatai's territories, be it as an invasion force or a exploratory force. So I think its dependant on that fleet's role.

Fleets should have some identifier be it number or name for sure
 

Wes

Founder & Admin
Staff Member
🌸 FM of Yamatai
🎖️ Game Master
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Basically, what Fred said. I'm going to draft a proposal (probably in the form of making an updated version of the wiki page) after Christmas and then come back to this thread for feedback on that.
 

raz

SAINT Director
🌟 Site Supporter
🎨 Media Gallery
Banned Member
Please consider keeping the 9th Fleet then, too, since they're also really rad special snowflakes. They have an active plot, run by Rhysis, and are probably the most unique fleet in terms of specialized doctrine (deep SAINT integration and Space Infantry). Their base on Tami is also really sweet; I envisioned it to be a lot like the Rebel base on Yavin IV, and there was a 9th Fleet guerrilla force there for the entire(!) 2nd Mishhu War. The 9th is soooo cooooool that two people, one of whom was FM @Doshii Jun, sought to preserve the fleet as fleet manager.

While we're on the subject, maybe Taisho Whitmoor's 5th Fleet can stick around instead of being scrapped and becoming the logistics fleet. @CadetNewb runs a plot within it, after all, and according to the plot planning board, the "Unluckies" will be around for some time to come.

(tbh I don't really care and like the new fleet plan a lot. I have some cool ideas to shoot at Wes for folding the 9th's assets over to SAINT or another fleet. But thought I'd post this up because we're making requests based entirely upon "wow my previous contributions were so freaking cool and worth preserving!")
 

Fred

Retired Staff
Raz, if you want something preserved out of the 9th Fleet, you're welcome to air it, but you can do it without the sarcasm and condescension.

Wes gave his input. Please play nice in the meantime.
 

Doshii Jun

Perpetual player
Retired Staff
The U.S. military cases colors and reshuffles units all the time. I have no problem with a fleet reorg. I think 1st XF would be a shame to lose, but if it keeps the patch, that'd be cool.
 

CadetNewb

Well-Known Member
The U.S. military cases colors and reshuffles units all the time. I have no problem with a fleet reorg. I think 1st XF would be a shame to lose, but if it keeps the patch, that'd be cool.

I feel that though it is more realistic to do so, we are ultimately a military roleplay. That is, we're playing a role for fun - being too strict or stringent defeats the purpose, and in this case, for very insubstantial gains in exchange for negative player impact. For me, the choice between tidying up and stepping on people's RP is very clear.
 

raz

SAINT Director
🌟 Site Supporter
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Banned Member
For me, the choice between tidying up and stepping on people's RP is very clear.
Nobody's RP will be ruined as a result of reshuffling of commands unless they dwell on it and let it ruin their RP.
 

CadetNewb

Well-Known Member
Perhaps it won't, but it can definitely make things harder for them, and that extra difficulty is completely unwanted. That much is certain.
 

CadetNewb

Well-Known Member
And what happens if everything doesn't work out as you're assuming it will? That's a possibility, and people are worried that what they've worked on is going to be lost. Are you saying they shouldn't voice their concerns? That's the impression I'm getting here given how strongly you've insisted when, ultimately, you're not the one that will decide what the changes will be at all.
 

raz

SAINT Director
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Banned Member
I'm just asking you to stop making baseless claims in an attempt to get things to go your way.
 

Amaryllis

Well-Known Member
What gets me is I wonder how much the history of a fleet really matters when the stories mostly happen on plot ships within a fleet. Like if a fleet is primarily represented by one plot ship I don't see a big deal in merging it with another. The stories of each ship/plot I imagine matter much more by far than the fleet they took place in and I'd imagine the ships have defined fleets more than fleets have defined ships.

If there are over 10 fleets are there more than 5 that are really distinct for reasons other than which plotship was in each?

Like how many fleets are defined mainly by what a ship(s) did versus how many have their own rich history that can stand on its own largely without the ships in it? Like how many times did a fleet commander's directions define how plotships acted versus how often did a fleet just go wherever a plotship went? If a fleet was mostly used to provide a plotship with extra faceless dudes to take on enemies it couldn't take on alone I don't see it as being worth preserving much.
 
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Navian

Well-Known Member
I don't think 'Do fleet histories really matter?' is a useful tangent. They won't be destroyed, regardless.

While plotship histories are more relevant, they're also not going to be destroyed, either way, so that doesn't change anything.
 

Fred

Retired Staff
Why are we back to this same circling debate about the value of fleet identities? I thought how to proceed regarding this had been made clear before. I'd like not to have to lock this thread due to circuitous bickering.

* * *

In my plot, I spent some time having my PCs go to one of Yamatai's moon, Luna Bianca. Give them ideas of what's around, have them do things in there, from wandering around spaceports, staying in restaurant/hotels, taking trains to visit the shipyards nestled in the craters of the moon. For one part, I was describing something that had never - to my knowledge - really been described. As GM, my ultimate payoff for that was when I used it as a combat venue, like I am presently. To me it has more value in that role because it had already gained some life in the minds of my roleplayers.

I kind of see the attachment that seems built in individual fleets in that light. Overtime, effort was put into organizing and fleshing out something that serves as a backdrop. The effort of putting a house in order, and then calling it your own. I understand the people that feel that attachment. I understand why other people may feel that it's silly to make a big deal out what seems like so little.

What I am going to do is encourage two things:

- Try to be open-minded and respectful of the things other people care for and appreciate. By all means air your position, but be mindful that the next conversation might be about something you care about that others will care less for: act in a way you hope other people will act towards you. Try not to belittle what they love; even though it sometimes runs at cross-purpose, passion is a large part of what makes SARP alive. The fact that they care is not bad.

- Remember that this addresses the Star Army of Yamatai, an organization that is for Wes to manage as Faction Manager. Like any GM, there is a certain experience that Wes wants to provide across this thing which is the namesake of the roleplaying community he founded. Don't dig your heels; listen and see if there's a way for you as GMs to carry out these hopes he is entertaining. Are there ways it can be played along? Is there good roleplay that can result from this? Wes is reticent to let bad things happen to his faction and he was critiqued for that... but considering the arguments raised, might this not be a double-standard? I know my best scenarios have always come through my willingness to break eggs.
 

Wes

Founder & Admin
Staff Member
🌸 FM of Yamatai
🎖️ Game Master
🎨 Media Gallery
Yes, but it's not as big of a priority as other things like expanding the Kuvexians.
 
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