The Rather Large Hyperspace Array (Map rearrangement concept)

[Wes]

Because the distances between the various systems in the core were already well established, primarily. So the core became a mega-cluster and future chunks of map will be their own clusters.

 

[Fred]

@Wes where do you want to move Hanako's World?

 

[Wes]

I was going to move it near Albini.

 

[Fred]

Okay, I can see why that kind of retcon would be a problem. Hanako's Star was nowhere close to Core Yamatai. Back then, the range of the XFs' exploration had them consider the Great Southern Nebula and the Bard Cluster as the far reaches of Yamataian territory.

Wouldn't its former location slightly north-east of Rufusland suit your purpose, though? The Lorath are long gone from there, and it'd actually fit with the Sakura roleplay mentioning it had been found out around the same time as Fujiko and Rufusland... and was in the general neighborhood of the Great Southern Nebula (which is not so southern anymore). I know it's not as Core Yamatai as you might like, but it'd be in an area of space which is solidly Yamatai's at this point (it's neighbor, the Bard Cluster, isn't going anywhere). And it'd be near to the Rufusland and Kotori systems - Hanako's Star could be inbetween them, keeping them company!

Also, I'd point out that Hanako's Star would have more value there than in Core Yamatai, where the colony would be dwarfed out by its more populus and 'longer settled' neighbor. It's easier to stand out outside the shadow of giants. Just NE of Rufusland, it ends up at an ideal location (and accordingly named spacelane) to be a good stopping spot/vacation hub. It'd be a water world surrounded by colonies that are either desert worlds or mining colonies.

Honestly, I think you should have never moved it. It's way too good a location for a water world to prosper. If you get a shipyard going somewhere nearby (The Kotori system is slated to have this huge ring installation that'll likely support shipyards just fine) than you can even credibly establish it as the regional outpost for the Sakura Gap (making it good for launching mission, shoreleave, and defensive action for it and several neighboring systems).

 

[Wes]

I still think Yamatai should be building rather large hyperspace fold generators and other mega-structure things. We have the technology. We've done it before in the RP. There is a interest in rearranging Elysia into a cooler position and in moving some Yamataian systems around to make them more defensible.

 

[Soresu]

I've been toying with the idea of a planetary ring structure for Yamatai for a couple of weeks. I just haven't had the time to put my nose to the grindstone with it. I was just on the ropes if you'd want something like that considering Hoshi no Iori, and the fact there is a war on atm.

 

[Ametheliana]

@Primitive Polygon and I at one point worked out a small ley line usage deal or were going to for Iroma and Freespacers. Idk how pertinent that discussion is now due to time and lack of doing it or not, but it is the conversation so!

EDIT: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=faction:freespacers:ley_lines

EDIT 2: I completely can not comprehend moving planets and my brain slipped and forgot ley lines just move stuff so PP- sorry for the tag and everyone else I totally made a brain shart, is all.

 

[Arbitrated]

As the FM of Elysia I'm also pushing for a fix to their territory like this. Maybe one explanation for arrays like this being semi-uncommon is that, aside from being expensive they're "single-use" and typically are irreparably damaged or burnt-out or something similar once they go off - but it's possible to set them to move multiple star systems at once, with the risk of "scatter" - as an emergency measure to bring Elysian worlds out of their exposed and weak positioning the choice might be to move several at once, and while the star systems land in the approximately correct location.... There's not much control on the precision. And then, of course, that RLHA would have burnt out.

 

[Whisper]

If this is allowed, it's the sort of thing that I'd request have a lengthy, highly visible in-game build time (which we could waive/retroactively implement if everyone is interested OOC), so that other factions can react if necessary. Nep's really the only faction that could respond without getting wiped off the map, but it still seems necessary.

In character, this could be a great topic to discuss at the IRC. I could see a lot of the factions agreeing to this sort of action as long as everyone at the table got a say in it.

Personally, I'm in favor of some one-off solution to this kind of thing. If one of the factions makes a habit out of moving planets around, etc, it makes it really hard to see a way to ever stand on equal footing without doing some similarly insane things. Balance is important.

 

[Fred]

Wow, this is old. Are we in October already? This is Necromancy! Thread Necromancy, I say!

I played a videogame series this last year, Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel; I, II and III. Got to hand it to Falcom, they do great world building.

They have nice maps too:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/kiseki/images/8/8b/Erebonia_-_Map_%28Sen_III%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180529200137

One thing the setting has is a lot of history and background elements. Amongst them, a nice little detail: at some point the capital Heimdallr was struck by a plague, and the government seat moved to Saint-Ark. Saint-Ark became the capital for a good while until one of the following rulers eventually moved the flag back to Heimdallr once the city, some generations later, had actually recovered.

• Some similar disaster could be the cause of moving Elysia's capital world to a different location. We know firsthand now how things can shutdown due to pandemics or the like. If the Elysians are immune to disease, it could be some much more significant nanite-based polutant left in their atmosphere by Kuvexian vassals, similar to how the Drakh in Babylon 5 "doom" the Earth and open up a search for a cure in the ensuing (and unfortunately incomplete) Crusade mini-series.

• As for Yamatai going for more defensible, you could take inspiration from the Cardassian DMZ in Startrek. The United Federation of Planets was at odds with the Cardassians and wanted a treaty at all cost, to the point of ceding colonized systems. When they did, they tried to move the inhabitants, but were met with resistance that resulted in people being left behind. The Cardassians had very little clemency to give to these people, and this eventually sparked the Maquis resistance movement.

Something similar could happen as Yamatai wants to consolidate their defenses, and tighten their lines, dismantling garrisons and such while trying to move their populations, whom might not be happy to move and might resist. Even if the YSE's government would prefer doing "the right thing" while the military would be less subtle while faced with the frustrations of "trying to help people that don't want to help themselves" , perhaps resulting in compromise pulls the millitary out and leaves the colonists that didn't want to leave there, but as an independent colony. Of course, this is not an ideal outcome, but in war you're sometimes left with a bad and a worse choice, and the best you can do is choose the lesser evil.​

The above 2 points are organic solutions that don't rely on a gimmick. They also benefit by producing more independent worlds with backgrounds fleshed out through historical happenings rather than OoC convenience as the implausibly powerful RLHA provides.

 

[Alex Hart]

What would this look like on the map? Is it just certain factions moving their systems to be more concentrated? Will this be cutting out some of the star systems that are barely ever used and have little to no detail? Does this big map rearrangement do anything for the site health as a whole, and not just Elysia and Yamatai in specific? Just a few questions I have floating around.

 

[Wes]

The proposal we discussed in the chat would put Elysia's worlds in a neat strip between Yamatai and Nepleslia on the Northern edge of Yamatai's territory where Kxi'ran is.

Map arrangements are IC things, they don't affect "site health" in any way.

 

[Ametheliana]

Fred, you were one of the first people to naysay originally. Has anything changed in your opinion?

The Marquis movement was sparked when the occupying and distinctly bad force of Cardassians were given territory that could no longer be used by those that were in the zone. That does not equate to Elysia -or anyone- moving their planets or systems to different places on the map that their own leadership find more suitable. As long as they have your homes, planets, and lands they know, is there really a problem?

As for the Babylon 5 example, I was thinking this morning about how awesome it would be to finish Babylon 5 and the questions I have and now my only question is, "The Drakh did what!?!"

 

[Legix]

Not particularly interested in joining the discussion yet but figured I'd respond to @Alex Hart with a mock-up that I made when I was discussing it with Arbitrated. It should be noted that the Freespacer stuff would be scooted over and some stuff would need to be rearranged (it also included the idea of Yamatai letting them take Kenishi's Star, Mirada, and Kxi'ran as these worlds are relatively minor/still technically part of Yamatai while Kxi'ran isn't terribly important and I'd be willing to cede it to help clean the map up)

​

But yeah; this was just an initial mock-up. If we did it, there's still tons of room for discussion. Just figured I'd post it here so the discussion has it for relevant situations.

 

[Fred]

Regardless of my accuracy on the Maquis situation, the inspiration so far as I stand still qualifies. For Elysia, my point was to find a rationale to move the capital and embrace the resulting history. For Yamatai, reshaping frontiers can just as well mean giving up worlds. War sucks, and crap happens.

This said, when I look at arguments like

Map arrangements are IC things

I find the motive just as poor as I found it years ago.

So, I care to point how bad an idea I find it is to justify such a change on some MacGuffin tech. Wes is a friend, and I mean him well.

However, unlike in the past, it's not something I care to champion. I'm inactive staff for a reason. It seems like a bad idea to me. I will share that and hope it helps you... but if the memberbase has changed and far less people mind it... well, it's not really my problem beyond my little corner of your universe and the outcome probably won't affect me. I could go holier-than-thou and go "thou shouldst knowest better" and "nay, thou must avoid stooping to such depts" - but I simply don't care enough to crusade for it.

Do what you think is best, make what you want of my caution (which I tried to word as best I could), and hopefully have fun despite the pitfalls I see.

@Ametheliana I also sincerely apologize for the spoiler. If it's any comfort, since it only spans one movie and one incomplete mini-series, it's not really considered canon. They tried doing a spinoff and it didn't work.

 

[Ametheliana]

Everything in theory can have pitfall aplenty, but in practice is when the reality is decided, imo.

There's also no need to have to tell anyone "they should know better" or even get close to thinking you once would have or could now! This is not life or death. This is fun or not.

Seeing problems behind every bend, hesitating before taking steps in directions that don't seem well traveled, and letting concerns yell louder -even in our own minds, Fred- than the simplicity and ease of what is true will not serve us in having fun. Again, imo.

 

[Wes]

So, in other words, Ame, "maybe don't overthink this?"

I guess it's true that sometimes we get bogged down in unresolved discussions over actions that could be taken easily and swiftly.

But also a gentle reminder that if someone says they're ducking out of the argument let's respect that and not try to continue it with them.

 

[Ametheliana]

That's a great way to put it in every part, Wes.

 

[Glein]

This is just me speaking my mind, but...


I'm 100% against this idea. Is it inconvenient? Yeah, sure it is. But plot/story/lore has been built around worlds being where they are now, not where they 'should' be. I don't think it makes a lot of sense, even with valid reasons such as consolidating nations, improving positions, and so on and so forth, to be done. Even with the statement of 'we did it before'.

I mean, even if it were true, why didn't Yamatai start using this tech more to keep all of it's newly gained worlds close to home and thus well protected, and easily supported?

 

[Wes]

Because the one we had got blown up by the Mishhu. We got to build a new one, and so far we haven't written a wiki article for these very big hyperspace fold systems.