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Mecha in SAoY

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I do like some of the AI crapshoot stuff. Like the way they sometimes exploit loopholes in their own programming so they don't have to carry out actions they disagree with. Or the way another one drives itself insane with paranoia of the trillions of scenarios for alien attack and ironically becomes more dependable because in its deepest program is an unbreakable loyalty routine that activates if it becomes dangerous to its own side.

Bolos on paper only start to make sense when you view them as land battleships and the use of drones making them land-carriers in later versions making sense.

One thing I liked was they touched on the idea of the AI becoming so advanced that they achieved full sentience -- but out of fear by humans of them going rogue, they hemmed them in with restraining bolts which restricted their intelligence at all times outside of direct engagements -- and even then, they required a human commander to make the call to go to full alert. This makes sense, given the damn things can think and act much faster than humans: They can exploit their own loopholes and act independently if it fits their core directives better than the assigned combat directives.

One thing I liked (okay, loved) was some of them developed romantic feelings toward the AI -- which were often very mutual: Rather than the usual copout of "make it a people body and happily ever after", it was recognized as a major problem amongst human commanders who would live inside them for years at a time and would be devastated when a Bolo was killed in combat -- usually to the extent that the billions used to train them are useless because they refuse to command again.

Nike we hardly knew you ;3;
 
I know. I love her so much. Who was it who got nuked and had to be stored underground until the radioactivity passed?

ai.imgur.com_8nAEDvn.png

Low bridge, but it has room for bunks and some internal equipment in the cab section. The armor is starship thick, naturally.

What were Wes' specific requirements?
 
Well by now @Wes needs to reconfirm what he wants. I do believe he wanted smaller mecha (5-7 meters I think) not the giant Osaka posts here. He also made it pretty clear he wants it to be able to provide support from the air (aka it needs to be able to fly well, aka jetpack). Also it should provide enough support firepower to PA squads, without over-shadowing PAs. Personally I think it would be easiest to take a look at Asura from Origin, give it similiar firepower and make it more nimble in air, while it being able to fight well on the ground as well. Which is why I personally support humanoid form, imo something like Patlabor with a flight pack would be ideal, but that is just me.
 
Being more nimble in the air doesn't mean retaining humanoid shape truthfully, now I'm not typically one to recant others ideas but clearly the most "realistic" concept of a machine that both is aerodynamically sound and agile while purely in the air in addition to being a ground force asset is one that will have some brand of variable or shift in the design for true control surfaces. As we all know planes and fighters are constructed that way for a reason, and while surely you can try to justify making up for the lack of a practical aerodynamic shape with fake science (I can call blue red too) the simple fact of the matter is from your tactical need this is basically going to be a primary source of air support while in an atmosphere (anything beyond that being the range of support from space vessel) and while on the ground it will provide likely close fire support as a big beast against PA's (long range fire support is better provided by platforms without legs I.E tanks that fire missiles or gauss cannons given a targeting solution by recon units) and what not; so basically what I'm leading up to is you're going to want to either give it some wings or perhaps a harness of some variety that essentially keeps the humanoid part of it folded and tucked together around the winged exoskeleton loaded with a payload to deliver on CAS sortie. It flies around exactly like a fighter to deliver the weapons to the enemy and then ejects out of the flight harness like a fighter would eject a fuel tank before a fight only to unfold and preform a high speed drop to the the ground as essentially the role of a heavy anti power armor unit to compliment PA squads. Otherwise basically your air superiority mech realistically while in the air is just a giant target shaped like a being that shouldn't be able to maneuver that great at all compared to any designated air to air platformed machine. Also because it can't achieve the same air power after the control surfaces and pylon laced skeleton is ejected the weapon is more fair and balanced in all practical regards for those who don't like the idea of something actually like a veritech.
 
1 - we got the tech that makes shape and aerodynamics not really relevant for flying (gravity control, inertial dampening etc.)
2 - it needs to be able to get back up in the air if needed
 
@Guard Dog
I've been down this road a couple times before. Each time i said something well grounded in both science and logic the Pseudo Science Defense Force came in hard and fast to shut me down. My best advice is to just stand back and watch them argue until they form a logical concept on their own. It may take a little bit but it seems to eventually happen by default.
 
Yes very great you have gravity control on an absurdly small scale, and you also have equipment to detect fake gravity I presume? Meaning that you failed to understand that a portion of my recommendation was clearly hinged also on that it could be a stealth striker not just on the fact that I believe no matter what level of technology you have regarding propulsion something that is aerodynamic is going to move through the air more swiftly while in the atmosphere as it encounters less air resistance. So yes if we still exist in a world where a gas is the medium within the freaking atmosphere what shape it is still has a palpable impact unless you simply can't wrap your head around physical reality as you try to imagine this. Secondly, I never stated that my concept couldn't fly again just that it wouldn't fly "as well" as it once did. You don't have to take my advice; or even consider it for that matter. But if in the key concept for a mech that can fill a CAS role in addition to close ground support the most practical way is to give it the ability to actually fly and utilize It's momentum through the air. Great you have inertial dampening too, I'm sure there is a reason this is a stark contrast to ejecting wings or can I assume this is as simple as it sounds?


1. Control surfaces that allow it to manage and utilize ANY energy that is being used to keep it up in the air for actual flying is what you want for an atmospheric air support machine

2. Coupled with the fact that while it is folded in the shape to fit into the skeleton it is obviously more compact and thus; even if we put the same imaginary gravitational system on my hypothetical machine and yours; guess what mine would still go faster through the air if it could exert the same magnitude of force, and an even better thing. It can cut back on the fake gravity outside of sensor range and sail in on the air undetected for the first strike at the enemy.

3. Although I never said it couldn't fly again, just to point out that wasn't a pre requites of this machines concept just that it could preform CAS sortie, allow me to reference my last post

"Also because it can't achieve the same air power after the control surfaces and pylon laced skeleton is ejected"

Notice how I say it can't achieve the "same" air power not "no" air power; just like my weapon is more strategical than yours, so is my phrasing.
 
Well excuse if me if I assumed the ejecting a flight harness would limit its flying ability, I am just an idiot after all.

Yes you are right, gravity could be detected, but we are talking about direct fire support platform not a stealth fighter. So basically it does not need to be super stealthy, it needs to be around PA troop to support them, which also means it does not really need to fly at mach 10 either. Not to mention with Aether (aka pseudo science unlimited energy source) you have no need to utilize energy around the mecha, it makes all its energy with ease and can power everything it has easily.
 
You're not an idiot no but you have no understanding of how something flies, or from this last post even how air support is conducted; yes being fast in the air is very, very important. Obviously we're still talking about a PA supporting mech once the pylon laced exoskeleton is ejected as I also stated, so if you haven't realized the speed and control surfaces are to, as I stated, help it in the air. And the ability to release it after the heavy payload is expended after an initial stealth strike gives way for tactics that you obviously don't comprehend while also solving the problem of transformable hard point vulnerability.

When you're closing in on the strike zone from the air you do want speed, the reason is because when you enter the range of weapons that can target your aircraft the faster you release the payload for your strike and then escape that realm of influence the faster your enemy is destroyed. Also with the ability to simply glide in without anti gravity I've provided it the tactical aptitude to not just be a CAS role for the air, but a SEAD.

Since I already know you don't understand air combat I'll tell you that means destroying dangers to air vehicles, so you can send more anti gravity aircraft if there was a defense grid after the first stirke.

So basically all you effectively combated my argument of "It would fly better with X and still manage to fulfill X and X roles with the addition of this and this advantage"

With...

"Aether, unlimited energy, screw aerodynamics or real air to ground combat doctrine"

Very good

"Aether"

How can I possibly combat the PSDF with physical reality or combat doctrine?
 
Guard Dog, you are new to the site so let me explain a few things.

In SARP, we have technology that allows things to fly without having to worry about wings, control surfaces etc. Most factions have gravity manipulation, and anti-gravity systems. Some like Yamatai also have the Combined Field System which can do it all very nicely. Now in some cases the designers may opt to include aerodynamic aspects, but most Power Armor and Mecha do not because it is a waste of materials when it can just anti-grav itself in. Also when it comes to stealth, we have plenty of systems that handle it.

This design is not about air support. It is about the creation of a mech to provide additional support to squads of Power Armor clad personnel. It is meant to be an on the ground addition once it is on scene.
 
Nashoba you haven't followed this thread as intently as I have in the past two hours so let me elaborate as well.

In SARP, you're going to have an imaginary reason to back any disposition you retain all of which do very nicely in a world that isn't real. now in some cases designers must actually stop to consider the fact that you have basically replaced practical combined arms military doctrine with nonsense laced with that disposition I referenced and sell it as adept science fiction. But making something that is supposed to be by request actually "good" in the air does require true aerodynamics. But since as I said you've replaced all combat doctrine with basically

"Power armors, aether, power armor support"

Even though my hypothetical machine doesn't conflict with any of this, in fact if anything it coincides using effective tactics for delivering weapons then getting down on the ground and laying the close fire.

So maybe you also don't understand why something while flying in the air properly even briefly can have a particular advantage on other units, but hypothetically speaking the tactic would go as such against purely PA units in simplistic form before I let your paws touch it.

The machine will be able to get to the power armors faster than one not aerodynamic in the atmosphere, it contacts the power armor squad it will support, the squad if containing a JTAC provides information and perhaps even a data link to the power armor systems for a combined sensor point of interests. This gets conveyed to the squad of mechs. They fly in and go silent to first disable any anti air defense before providing CAS on the SPI (Sensor point of interest) with a strike from above. Nothing in this dicussion states that the machine had to start fighting next to the troops after all. Then after the heavy payload is expended the pylon laced skeleton is released and the machine unfolds in the middle of the drop into the presumably bi-pedal form based on your referenced designs, the skeleton loss is probably only comparable to the loss of material in a space vessels torpedo, you loose many materials in war and so this is acceptable in real life combat doctrine just like fuel tanks. But once on the ground it is basically just going to be a mech to act as I said in my first post, a giant unit to support your overpowered PA squads with close fire support.

What you stated isn't a contrast to the aptitude in my design, rather your lack of willingness to even read that the majority of It's purpose is to support ground forces in numerous scenario and also brushing aside actual aerodynamics in something that was demanded from your site owner to be good in the air. This design isn't about anything but adding a mech to your forces because people want to pilot one in RP in truth; and others will choose to dictate exactly what that entails down to the T simply because they have a bias or are a suck up.

Guess what guy, in reality we can make an object fly without wings too.

And you can blow up power armors without a mech too in your simplified battle doctrine

Does it work better is the question.

Maybe what you need is more power armors if you don't want to accept that your machine doesn't have to just walk around the whole time for it to be a mech and god forbid I go against the grain with actual design sense you can relate with any modern mechanized military.
 
Guard Dog, give it up. I certainly have. It's more Zen to let them wander around than to talk to them. You want to discuss real tactics, strategy and support, try personal conversations, you get better results that way.
 
Say Nightowl anytime you want to talk I'm all ears brother, admittedly I'm passionate but I continued more to amuse myself with the retorts than anything else, I rather laugh about it than stay silent only to let them believe the lacking explanations provided had any true depth. Which faction do you recommend for a character by the way.
 
Guard Dog said:
But making something that is supposed to be by request actually "good" in the air does require true aerodynamics.
Click to expand...

See this where you are wrong, thanks to our "bullshit" tech we do not really have to care about what the mecha is shaped liked. Yes I know I said so, yes I know you did not like. Well that is tough. To be frank I did not even got a proper idea what your machine was supposed to be apart from it dropping into atmo, being aerodynamic, acting as first strike unit and then closer support once it drops some kind of flight harness and becomes ground unit that cannot really lift off once again, at least that is what I understand by dropping flight harness.

It might look silly to you what me and Nash are spouting, but that is just how things are. We are not genius technology nuts we are just folks. So herpa derpa aether bullshit actually makes stuff easier for us, cause we do not have worry way too much about physics, but we still can if we want to. Try to understand that.

Now I am curious in what other way you will confirm my ineptitude to understand something. Just please call me idiot next time, cause at least that would be honest rather then passive aggressive bullshit.
 
This is where I reference the fact that air exists a second time no matter what force or technology you use to power your craft, unless using anti gravity and aether suddenly removes the entire atmosphere off a planet I'm pretty sure it does matter in terms of how fast the mech is going to get there to support your powered armor units. Unless of course you don't care about that along with my other point, herpa derpa aether power armor support? Notice that it wasn't me who called your tech bullshit, it was you; and it isn't your tech so much as your understanding that when you move on a planet; there is air infront of you, and you hit that air, and no matter what energy you use to move it will effect your flight dynamics on the journey to support the squad.

Let me quote myself again

"2. Coupled with the fact that while it is folded in the shape to fit into the skeleton it is obviously more compact and thus; even if we put the same imaginary gravitational system on my hypothetical machine and yours; guess what mine would still go faster through the air if it could exert the same magnitude of force, and an even better thing. It can cut back on the fake gravity outside of sensor range and sail in on the air undetected for the first strike at the enemy."

and

"3. Although I never said it couldn't fly again, just to point out that wasn't a pre requites of this machines concept just that it could preform CAS sortie"

You got the wrong idea I actually found your reply rather amusing to say the least and to be frank I already understood you had no concept of what I was talking about.
 
I'm reminded of this:

ai.imgur.com_1mpynPS.jpg

I figure the wings swing back like an F-14 or something and able to stow missiles and bombs. The engine pods are also the gun-pods, repurposing the engines (the same way the main engine of the Yamato is also the wave motion gun) to save space and it has a smaller set of arms which fold neatly away.

The cockpit would probably be totally encased, using sensors to produce an image of the outside world for additional protection.
 
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