Mecha in SAoY

[Nightowl]

Well, you have 3 possible roles for it, which affects design.

1) Indirect fire support- long ranged, non-LOS weapon based, armour thinner, lack of hands not critical
2) Direct fire support- medium-short ranged, fairly heavy armour, a bit slower, hands helpful but not critical
3) Assault breecher- short ranged-melee preferably hand held to cover large angles, heavy armour, high speed, hands critical

In the end, form follows function, so basically, what do you want it to do? Up close and personal? Stay far away and pound? Middle ground "General Purpose"?

 

[OsakanOne]

If this is going to be tackled properly, a hard set of mission perimeters have to be drawn out. Not where you'd like it to go but what you'd like it to do. To step back, look at the roles you have intended and work out what hard functions will get it there. You decide the shape and the spec based on what it has to be able to achieve.

It might sound weird but if you follow this approach, you'll find things that surprise you: Holes and gaps that you can fill in creatively, lending the thing much more flavor and originality.

 

[Rizzo]

I'm not really too picky about what the mecha is or what it does, but however it turns out I really really really really really want it to have ejector seats and room for a soldier in power armor to drive... Pretty please?

 

[OsakanOne]

...Why not make the power-armor itself the ejection system and also the control system, forgoing the need for a conventional cockpit's controls and giving the thing backup life-support. You could just have a dark coffin tilted downward slightly toward the feet.

SPINE is pretty versatile, right?



I'm reminded of the R-103 Delphinus.

 

[CadetNewb]

The design Wes is suggesting would be great for fire support, and probably just that - it will be particularly vulnerable at closer range in exchange for being particularly good at ranged combat. I dislike it since it's not particularly versatile, but I'm guessing it'll be the direction Yamatai will go?

 

[ShotJon]

Well I can see what Wes posted as something that could work. Though I do fear that it would not be very nimble on the ground. I have stated advantages of the humanoid mecha before, so I won't do it again. I guess the one from Wes is a compromise. Thought I do think, we already ditched transformation few pages back, did that change?

To make myself clear even though there are things I want, I would very much work with everyone to complete this. My personal preference would be something along Patlabor mecha with flight pack on its back, extra guns on shoulders, missile racks and big gun in its arms. I do think that would suffice the role we talked about, but like I said, that would be just my preference. Hell even something like supersized Mindy would be nice. MegaMindy.

Anyway mecha's role is something we mentioned fairly well before. FIre support, saturation, covering the PA infantry.

 

[Rizzo]

It isn't transforming. It just positions it's legs to reduce drag.

EDIT: I'm wrong, i didn't see the colored picture until just now

 

[OsakanOne]

I like the idea of looking at this thing as a boss-fight for groups of players in another platform, not just a cool looking support ship.

 

[CadetNewb]

Er, this is supposed to be something that a GM pulls out to help the players if they're in a sticky position, the players go to save from a sticky position, or pilot into and/or out of sticky situations. Not so much for them to go against. : \

 

[Nightowl]

I think that is where the 2 points of view conflict. One side wants it to be what you say, something to pull the players out of a sticky situation. The other POV wants it to be a tough enemy the players have to work hard to overcome.

 

[Rizzo]

Both are equally useful tools for a GM to have at their disposal. Neither application should be overlooked. having a large, high performance mecha is a two way street. It can get you into and out of a sticky situation when your using one or it could put you in one when someone else is using it. It all depends on which side of the gun your seeing.

 

[Syaoran]

They might both be useful and valid. But we're trying to get a mecha in the Star Army of Yamatai for player use. The boss mech will com naturally after the player one is developed I think.

 

[ShotJon]

We already have "boss mecha" for NMX. Look up Render and Ravager. What I am personally seeking and what I am trying to get this work with as also something that Wes would be okay for is a platform that still can be used by player as well. It will of course be GMs decision, whether they allow it or not. I do think that such machine can easily be worked both as NPC support platform and player operated arse kicker.

 

[OsakanOne]

>Playerboss
>Player support



Not everyone is always on the same side.

 

[Syaoran]

We're not saying don't have both. But designing two separate things at once is rather difficult in the same topic. So it'd be best to stick to one, finish that then move to the next. And since the boss would have to take into account that the players now have an option of a mech, it should be made second.

 

[Nightowl]

That is fine in the real world, but in-game, how would you prevent equipment creep? Your stuff gets bigger and theirs gets bigger to match, then yours gets bigger to counter and theirs gets bigger to counter-counter etc etc. How long will it be before normal PA becomes useless? Once the enemy gets so big normal PA can't handle it, then you'll need a deus-ex machina to counter their deus-ex machina and it becomes a plot solution, not player RP solutions.

You want tougher equipment? That's fine, but you need a hard-cap to prevent your normal PA from becoming useless.

If you're designing an assault mech, which from what I gather is what you want, maybe a dual cockpit might be worth a look, lets the mech cover more angles in a closed environment. Firing in 2 different directions accurately seems to be a good ability to have in something designed to breech defences and end up in "FIBUA" and "FISH".

 

[Syaoran]

Well considering technology does acutally creep even in real life, and we have the NTSE that's not really a problem NightOwl. And tehcnically there is nothing wrong with an enemy a PA can't handle. It'd be weirder if everything could be taken down by a PA. Because then why make anything besides PAs?

 

[Eistheid]

I believe the point that Osaka was trying to make was that the mecha for the players could also function as a boss in different circumstances. For example at one time the players might be piloting mecha, and at another the enemy would have them and the players would not, turning it into a boss fight.

That solves the suggested problem of developing two pieces of equipment at the same time.

On the subject of power creep/tech creep. One simply has to look at it not from a point of view of statistics and numbers, but from a situation and narrative based point of view instead. While there could very well be a war of bigger mecha with heavier weapons and thicker armor there reaches a point where it becomes a gigantic target. To further halt the escalation of larger machines is the logistics of transporting such a thing. There comes a point where one might as well build a dedicated starship instead of a larger mecha.

As well larger weapons systems don't guarantee invulnerability as is demonstrated in reality by the availability of various anti-tank systems employed on an infantry scale.

Another point to consider is that inevitably tactics would arise for infantry, PA, or other platforms to disable mecha more efficiently, which would stop it from turning into an ever expanding war of escalation as knowledge would allow less expensive platforms to punish wild investment solely in large weapons systems.

It really comes down to the understanding that a brute force spam of a single type of unit is not a viable option in any realistic depiction of combat.

 

[Nightowl]

Actually Eistheid, you rephrased all the arguments made against mecha throughout the whole thread, ones which I agree with but it still is a popular idea. No harm letting them have it, after all, it's the GM's choice to include it or not. If not, all they need to say is that "we don't have a unit available".

I'm a bit of 2 minds to this, one is that it doesn't hurt (now) and it does add variety. The 2nd is the worry that people will keep asking for bigger and bigger in the future to make "boss fights" easier.

 

[Syaoran]

Nightowl that's not remotely what's happening here. Mecha are not bad, and they wont be bad down the road. There are -already- mecha in the setting. They're just not in SAoY. And no one is asking for Mecha so they can beat down bosses. It's because they want to be mecha pilots. There is nothing wrong with wanting to pilot a mecha. And nothing Eistheid said is against mecha dude so just chill. If you're that against mecha stop commenting in the thread man.

Anyway back to mecha. Thinking about it, at this time it seems cockpits aren't that big an issue, I think it's about time we move to actually talking about features. I think we've come to agreement that there is room in SAoY to fit a mech or two in as infantry support. So let's actually start working on a design with the view that maybe someone will write it up soon.

So my input towards that thought;
First I think the mecha should have at least the option to be outfitted with some heavy missiles, something that can't be fitted on a power armor and could wreck the shields of a small PA squad, or drop a building in a shot or two instead of those usefull but not full powered mini missiles. Another thing that I think would be a nice addition is a heavy railgun, not just something with destructive power, but stopping power as well, something that can really show the difference in scale to let people know they're dealing with something larger. A shot could send someone flying back after colliding with their shield, or it could miss just barely and a car go flying down the street, something that'll scare the people on the receiving end.