NH-29 Nekovalkyrja (Brainstorming)

[Cora]

At least he isn't disgracing himself by using magic in a sci-fi RP.

What the fuck do you think Nodel is? It's science based magic you dumbass.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 

[Doshii Jun]

Such a bitter brew

HAY GUYS.

I can see some of the bonuses here with this proposed update. I think.

*Not making objects out of blood . . . I assume saves on blood? If the Nekos are made of nanomachines anyway, why spare the blood? Then again, if I'm to believe Wes, they're made of lots of cool molecules, not nanomachines. I'm lost.

*Not as strong . . . because of power armors? If there are not excessive costs associated with producing such strong Nekos, why cut back? Even the NH-7 "racing model" could lift about 1,000 pounds. Such strength has to have applications in the battlefield that are worth keeping.

*Why the lower healing ability? Again, the battlefield implications . . . Is there anyway to simply make the Neko tougher by herself, instead of relying on power armor?

*Everything else makes sense (even a better vagina, though I don't quite get why).

I get the idea of making these Nekos "different." But a lot of these changes seem like things that would prevent a newbie player from abusing the Nekos. This makes sense to me; I just don't know if that's what you have in mind.

Also, on another note -- Do Uso and Cora always fight this much? Just curious; it's tempting to just write it off as two players who are too different to ever get along.

NH-29GET

 

[Zack]

The nodal system is a peice of technology, not magic even though it may be called that.

 

[Tom]

Eh, a lot of stuff, maybe a couple double standards, still need to be hammered out, but the Royal Magic/Psionics Rumble was a step in the right direction for clearing things up.

The Neko are already pretty much the perfect race if you think about it. They are super strong, super smart, super sexy, super regenerative (in a sense), super everything.

I call Nekos a race over a weapon because players in this RP choose to play them. They give them personality. I don't even think there are any particularly stringent requirements that differentiate Neko RP-wise from other races.

Calling them a weapon is really just a cop out to defend the in-stone definition of the Neko rather than follow what the community has granted them in SPIRIT.

They're much closer to human than weapon.

Now, what I think that Wes is trying to do here with the NEW Neko model is tone down the weapon aspect of the neko and give it a bit more of a human feel (which I think is great). He's trying to give them a society, a way of life, etc.

And what better way to do that than have male and female neko who can procreate? Doesn't that form the basic societal foundations of every form of human-level intelligent life? Heck, even animals have a limited sense of family.

I think taking away that second half of the relationship would be rather sad. Neko families would be such a wonderful thing to see RPed out.

Neko cloning Neko out of themselves seems too artificial, too close to machine.

 

[Cora]

Re: Such a bitter brew

Do Uso and Cora always fight this much? Just curious; it's tempting to just write it off as two players who are too different to ever get along.

Yes we do. And, yes, we are.

Uso writes The new technologies off on this board by way of the Game's tech level.

While I'm alittle too realistic. I barely agree with most of this stuff since there's more technobabble on this web site then all five Star trek series and all ten star trek movies.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Now, what I think that Wes is trying to do here with the NEW Neko model is tone down the weapon aspect of the neko and give it a bit more of a human feel (which I think is great). He's trying to give them a society, a way of life, etc.

You said it better than me. In the same turn, though, this essentially limits what players can do with the Neko -- both good and bad. I like the idea, but the RP implications of making the race an actual society seem to be neverending.

And what better way to do that than have male and female neko who can procreate? Doesn't that form the basic societal foundations of every form of human-level intelligent life? Heck, even animals have a limited sense of family. ...
I think taking away that second half of the relationship would be rather sad. Neko families would be such a wonderful thing to see RPed out.

Okay, I get this. But doesn't this take Nekos in really uncharted territory? And what's to say someone doesn't arise as a leader of these new Neko families and start incredible racial strife between humans, who are inferior anyway? I realize that this probably wouldn't happen . . . but I'm trying to work in the spirit the RP universe, not metaadmins. Personally, I like the idea. Though it would mean mild racists like my character would last for a very short time.

Neko cloning Neko out of themselves seems too artificial, too close to machine.

Point. And I know I haven't read about it happening RP, though I'm sure it has. And we know that Nekos "screw." You could just make that a necessary precursor to reproduction (it could trigger the "I want babies" response).

And thanks for answering the Uso/Cora thing. Makes much more sense now.
(Upon reading Cora's edit: Yet you somehow advocate magic, which is written off how? I agree about the technobabble, but as long as you're going into realism . . .)

 

[Yangfan]

I asked Wes about why the new Nekos actually have less abilities. He mentioned that the current Nekos have high energy requirements. A neko fighting in a battle would be ready to pass out in about an hour, if she doesn't stop to eat more food.

The newer version Nekos would tire less quickly, in exchange for lower strength and slower self-healing. PNUgen's hoping that the drawbacks are sufficiently mitigated, since most Nekos now wear protective power armors in battle, which, of course, enhance their strength and offer some sort of first-aid response.

 

[Zakalwe]

Uhm. The creation of a geneticly identical child just by thinking it is certainly feasable. Once you have that sort of healing ability, nano-bots, and a specialised genetic system, which isn't actually based on the base human DNA (I believe), then it all fits in to place. There is nothing actually unpheasable about it. Can someone just say what is unfeasable, and then we'll be able to tackle the problem.

For tackling the energy problem I only have one thing to say -

Make them green so they can be solar powered!

 

[Wes]

Make them green so they can be solar powered!

I've actually thought about that! O,o

 

[SageShooter]

I usually don't say much in this forum and you all know this, but I have to say something that may help with the debate with the whole child thing.

While the self-cloning does have it's ups, at the same time, it can be BADLY abused. A single neko can make a small army all on her own, simply through cloning once, then those two clone, then those four clone, till they keep going on and on. Also, how much strain would this be on the neko? Just a little bit of a bother? Or would it be life-threatening? Or somewhere in the middle. And one other thing, Why add a feature to a race you are trying to humanize, when the feature will only make it closer to a machine?

And on to my idea, Why not use common day technology to help out. Introduce Hormones into the race...I guess give them certain hormonal injections, or make a Hormone injection unit built into the NH-29 model, so at times she will become fertile just like a real woman...But thats just my idea of course

*puts her idea on a bulls-eye and backs away, holding up a gun* Ok...So who wants first shot?

 

[Zack]

Just like with any replication the constraints are based on avalible resources. It is fairly safe to assume that the neko would have to consume at least the babies weight divided by the efficency of the nanomachines in transmuting elements in % ish....

So to keep this up she'd have to be eating a hell of a lot of food and to keep up that kind of production a rediculous amount of food and energy would be needed. It is unlikely that nekos will start reproducing like that because not only would PNUgen have to approve each neko for reproducing (Do nekos with clone capabilities produce nekos with cloe capability? Or do they need a fresh set of codes?) but the food supply would run out very fast.

 

[SageShooter]

Ok, you shot down one idea, but none the less, you still agree with it, which makes the NH-29 model still more like a machine then a normal human in this rp setting....What about my idea pertaining to Hormonal injections?

 

[Zack]

It would be simpler to do that kind of thing with software written into the nanomachines or brain-like-organ. There is really no need to waste energy creating hormones and hormone creating orgains and the like.

 

[SageShooter]

Never said Hormones need to create organs. It's very common technology today for women to take hormonal injections to both stimulate and suppress the fertililty times. It even comes in a handy pill perscribed by doctors for women that are unable to produce fertile children. Instead of having Nano-machines do the work, since sooner or later it looks with the way the race is going, Nano-machines will dissapear, they will need to be replaced with Hormones anyways. So why not start now with a small introduction into the system with this model?

 

[Zack]

Why waste the energy and why bother making them dependent on injections? Instead of bothering with injections and creating an organ to make the hormone to control birth why not just have either a genetic or software switch to turn pregnancy on and off? It would be faster and simpler AND cost less energy.

 

[SageShooter]

Well, with hormonal injections there is no wasted energy, and it frees up space, (even though I know the neko computer chips or whatever don't need too. )) And again, I go back to the point of making the race more human then machine. Anyways, I'm damn tired ((soccer does that to you )) But regardless, Uso please hold off anything until tommorow so I can get back to you quickly.

 

[Zack]

If I don't respond now odds are I'll forget later.

Not only do hormonal injections require the making of the hormone elsewhere but regular check ups of sorts to get the injection. Because neko's don't really need regular check ups because disese has been eliminated schedualing time for injections would be hassle that nekos do not need.

 

[Wes]

Now I know they're your creations Wes, but, doesn't this kinda fly in the face of basic biology of multi celluler beings? From this, you're saying an NH-17 can reproduce via mitosis just by thinking about having a child...

Nope. There are many cases in nature where thoughts can trigger physical reactions (production of stress hormones, example).

And really, how can they get pregnent by thinking of having children? Do they have some kinda spermsack somewhere inside their bodies? Are they always "In Heat?" This makes absloutly no sense.

They don't use or need sperm. They produce asexually, sort of like Wasmannia auropunctata, the little fire ant (which actually has seperate male and female populations who both clone themselves* Only sterile workers get genes from both parents) but with only females.

*See June 30 2005 Nature or September 2005 Scientific American
Also check out this article: Clone War of the Sexes

The best scenario I could imagine is her being able to make a clone of herself out of her own genetic material. It'd kind of be the same concept behind being able to regenerate limbs. But then that's kinda lame anyway, because the child would be a copy of the adult.

That's the way it works for the NH-17. See: Parthenogenesis

Then again, if I'm to believe Wes, they're made of lots of cool molecules, not nanomachines. I'm lost.

Nanomachines are cool molecular constuctions.

Not as strong . . . because of power armors? If there are not excessive costs associated with producing such strong Nekos, why cut back

There's no need and it's dangerous.

Is there anyway to simply make the Neko tougher by herself, instead of relying on power armor?

Yes, there is...just look at the NH-28 NIWS. It's one direction the neko's development can take. The other is to delegate the tougher stuff like generation of large amounts of energy to power armors, which is where the NH-29 is going.

Now, what I think that Wes is trying to do here with the NEW Neko model is tone down the weapon aspect of the neko and give it a bit more of a human feel (which I think is great). He's trying to give them a society, a way of life, etc.

I get the idea of making these Nekos "different." But a lot of these changes seem like things that would prevent a newbie player from abusing the Nekos. This makes sense to me; I just don't know if that's what you have in mind.

Yeah, that's a major part of it.

And what better way to do that than have male and female neko who can procreate? Doesn't that form the basic societal foundations of every form of human-level intelligent life? Heck, even animals have a limited sense of family.

I think taking away that second half of the relationship would be rather sad. Neko families would be such a wonderful thing to see RPed out.

Still, nekos could still have familes that were formed by friendships, political affiliation, by relationships through cloning, or could even consider themselves one giant family. Realistically, there's currently no point in adding a male with the current genetic setup. Even if we did want nekos to fertilize one another, wouldn't it be easier just to make nekos have fingers that could fertilize their sisters through masturbation (practiced on either themselves or another neko)?

But doesn't this take Nekos in really uncharted territory?

Yes. Isn't science fiction's primarily purpose the imagination of how technology will put us in new situations?

And what's to say someone doesn't arise as a leader of these new Neko families and start incredible racial strife between humans, who are inferior anyway?

It's entirely possible, I suppose.

While the self-cloning does have it's ups, at the same time, it can be BADLY abused. A single neko can make a small army all on her own, simply through cloning once, then those two clone, then those four clone, till they keep going on and on. Also, how much strain would this be on the neko? Just a little bit of a bother? Or would it be life-threatening? Or somewhere in the middle. And one other thing, Why add a feature to a race you are trying to humanize, when the feature will only make it closer to a machine?

It wouldn't be adding a feature, it'd be continuing one already in use (Yui's identical daughter, Chiaki, was born like this, for instance). I do see a large growth of neko population, but of course many neko species are limited to the military at the moment.

And on to my idea, Why not use common day technology to help out. Introduce Hormones into the race...I guess give them certain hormonal injections, or make a Hormone injection unit built into the NH-29 model, so at times she will become fertile just like a real woman...But thats just my idea of course

The point of the NH-29 is to make a neko species that can prosper with zero external support. Even on a medieval type world, these nekos would be just as at home as humans or other natural species and thus they can't be dependant on being made by PNUgen or on hormones.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Thanks for all the explanations, Wes. Most helpful.

But why the ban on Cora? Isn't that a little harsh?

Chris's increasingly negative and condescending attitude and the posts he made are clear and available for all to see. Banning him was justified and helps the community more than hurting it. Do not discuss the ban further in this thread, since that's off topic and I don't want to see the discussion derailed.

 

[Zack]

no phali-fingers please.