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Rejected Submission Pack Power Armor

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Zack

Zack

Inactive Member
Submission Type: Power Armor (sorta)
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=faction:uso:packpowerarmor

Faction: USO
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? (Yes/No)
Contains New art? (Yes/No)
Previously Submitted? (Yes/No; explain reason if rejected)

Notes: Team USO needs some power armor, and that's going to mean building power armor for the Vek, For I'ee, for humans, for giant humans, for a dalmation taur, and for a giant sentient-mushroom-robot.

Rather than building one power armor for each of them, I am going to go the route of building a backpack that does everything a power armor does. Of course Uso is no Wazu, and kinda has to throw stuff together using her limited capabilities.

The idea is that as time goes on, USO will develop more homebrew gear and will be able to upgrade what they have on hand. In the mean time they have to deal with early versions of gear that aren't all that great.
 
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I mean, there is exposed skin on the Golem, and it is described as a light vest.

This is compared to a backpack that is pretty much all solid metal, surrounding metal internal components, that's designed to take the place of a power armor. If anything its not even really PDR 20, its ADR4, but it makes sense to have the device's scale be the same as the shield.
 
It honestly looks anything but light, and if the Golem doesn't even get that many points, I don't see why this 'pack' should either. Even then, you can very firmly consider this a limitation of the current DR system, so there's that to deal with as well.
 
This 'limitation' isn't in the DR system though. It is something you just made up on the spot.
 
It exists for starship size classes and it's at least informally implemented to establish the difference between power armour and mechas or starfighters. I don't think this matters, much, though, since if someone wearing the backpack took four PDR 5 shield-penetrating hits to the back, they'd be incapacitated at the very least, even with the backpack to absorb the damage.

5 SP means it's not easily disabled by a shotgun blast or a sniper rifle, even if it's left completely vulnerable, but a rocket-propelled grenade or a heavy shot from an NSP should do the trick. That's pretty tough for a portable case filled with electronics. SP 20 would make it as tough as a light tank, and a LAW would be needed to disable it. That's pretty silly for something that can be worn.

Personal and armour-scale use the same SPs, only ships use a different scale for SPs. https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=guide:damage_rating#armor
 
PDR 20 puts it below the lightest power armor listed (the Harpy clocks in at 5ADR).

This makes it less damage resistant than the Harpy, as it can still be harmed by small-scale weapons, but still on par as it has about as much HP.

As stated before, this means a single anti-tank weapon will take out the pack.

Personal scale weapons like pistols and shotguns will also take out the pack after a few shots, where as they would just bounce off a power armor.
 
Navian, we're now specifically referring to the toughness of the pack itself, which is primarily relevant only if you're shot on the back and the shields are gone. Plus, there is a conversion between ADR and SDR - 25 ADR is worth 5 SDR. But that's getting a little off topic.

The chart actually says 1-5 SP for personnel grade items, and 5 looks to be the cap. My bad, I'm a bit rusty - I honestly didn't remember that. Since that's the case, you'll have to change the pack to have 5 SP Zack, since this is a PDR scale item and not an armor scale one.
 
The Harpy, as an example of ultra-light powered armour, and full-body unpowered heavy armour are both listed as examples for the same SP, 5. 20 SP is more than any powered armour listed as examples on the DR page, the Mindy only has 10.

There's no such thing as 'ASP' and 'PSP' on the table; armours, mechas, and fighters just have their SPs given in increments of 5, instead of increments of 1 like personal-scale equipment. Giving it 20 SP would not make it less damage resistant than the Harpy. Quite the opposite.

My point was that even if it was somehow able to absorb as much damage as a light tank despite weighing 55 pounds, it wouldn't help the wearer any. Giving it 5 SP makes more sense, anyway.
 
5 clearly isn't a cap, the most obvious use of this is star-bases with SDR values in excess of 200, or heavy vehicles with ADRs of 30+

The chart is a guide, no where does it say that the chart represents capped values, nor is there anything on the site that would imply that.

PDR 20 is the same amount of HP as ADR 4, just with less damage resistance.
 
Look. I have, quite literally, never seen this done before regarding an item in the PDR scale. This item is already a first on the site to have shields for personnel. Now, if you get your way, it will be the first I have ever seen to have 20 points on the PDR scale. Because of that, I am going to be as thorough as possible and will not change my position unless Wes specifically says otherwise. You can either change the article to get it approved immediately, or wait for his feedback Zack, but that's about it at this point.
 
The Mindy is ADR 10 which translates to PDR 50 (but with immunity to personal scale weapons)


As we've stated before, this is not the first item to have shields for personnel, nor is it really doing anything new with the DR system.
 
Could you give me examples of personnel class shields and high SP personnel items that aren't immune to personal scale weapons then? I'd like to take those into consideration if there are any.
 
This immunity isn't mentioned in the DR guide... Though, while it doesn't say that armour-scale SPs are different from personal-scale SPs, it's hard to explain how armour-scale units can take 5 hits from weapons of the same rank while personal-scale units can only take one, otherwise. Mind you, it doesn't actually say that personal scale units can only take one hit from weapons of the same rank, either. It just isn't clear.

4 or 5 SP seems like enough for this pack, to me. The GM determines what effects weapons will have on the pack at the personal scale, giving it higher SP just tells the GM not to let it be disabled with one shot, even while the shields are down, and even with a very powerful weapon, unless the weapon used is armour-scale. This only seems useful if a design goal is being able to recover still-functional packs from dead soldiers...

I'm not going to say anything else on the subject, it's clear to me that significant changes to the DR rules need to be made before they can be used as a stable basis for arguments about what the numbers mean.
 
You're as well aware as I am that it is against the rules to point to previous submissions to justify new ones for very good reasons.

Focusing on the article itself however, you cannot have a PDR 20 item. However, yes, you may have the pack be in the ADR range. As a result of this though, I expect some weight on the article.
 
Approval mods literally approved the same item when it was submitted after this article.

To go over the order of events again:

This article was submitted.

The Orb Weaver was submitted after this: https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/index.php?threads/orb-weaver-power-suit.44471/

The Orb weaver is a ADR level personal shield generating device just like this one, only it has higher stats in every category.

The Orb Weaver was approved right away, meaning there clearly is 0 problem with ADR level shields affecting exposed skin.

---

Since this article is clearly in line with what approval mods are willing to approve, I expect that this will be approved quickly.

I've also changed the submission back to the original ADR levels 1/1 for the shields, and 4 for the pack itself.
 
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I didn't approve that as an NTSE mod, but an FM. However, looking at the articles you've linked, it's come to my attention that the Orb Weaver pack isn't very clear on what type of shielding it is. I'm frankly not sure if it's ADR or PDR - I'll work on that and clear it up. Once I've got it out of the way, I'll be back here.
 
Odd. I've no idea why it was broken off into its own article. Still, it looks like the newer suit is using the older pack. I'm going to talk to the other tech mods and bring it in line with this one, or see what can be done with the other suit you've brought to my attention since it'd be unfair otherwise.
 
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