Rejected Submission Pack Power Armor

Currently. It wasn't supposed to.

You could clip a light power armor to it if you'd like. This is no different than any of the other shield modules that Origin (backpacks) or Yamatai (MACS) have.

It generates a force barrier. Since in the new DR system armour reduces damage while barriers absorb it, it's not quite the same protection; once the energy in the barrier is spent, the wearer is fully vulnerable.

Zack said:

You could clip a light power armor to it if you'd like. This is no different than any of the other shield modules that Origin (backpacks) or Yamatai (MACS) have.

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Previously, we had discussed this tech, in this very same thread, as being very specifically for personnel without PA level protection. The stats should reflect that.

Worse yet, even if it gets T4 but is "too heavy to lift unpowered" that would -still- be better than The nerf the Orb Weaver got, because the Orb weaver -is- a powered system and still isn't allowed have a power armor grad backpack generate a power armor grade shield. So even if it's T4 with draw backs it's still stronger than it should be.

So my personally opinion would be that nothing that's not actually connected to a power armor can generate power armor shields, regardless. There is really no good reason this thing should have T4 shields, nor does it need them. And worst of all, that would give unarmored people/nekos the ability to take power armor hits simply by putting on a back pack.

Zack said:

You could clip a light power armor to it if you'd like. This is no different than any of the other shield modules that Origin (backpacks) or Yamatai (MACS) have.

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It's very different, for one, those systems you know actually have to be connected. Your system doesn't. Those systems are also 'power armor only.' and wont operate if you just put them on someone's back.

Syaoran said:

So in other words give Zack special treatment and literally break the rules?

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No. As I said earlier, find solutions that work instead of looking for technical reasons why they cannot. Wes seemed to like the thought.

Enable cool ideas, don't be a gatekeeper because "muh the rules" or "reee I don't like Zack!"

Guess we're waiting on Fred, though.

If Zack wants this to be usable as a power armor component in addition to providing shields for personnel, it needs some work. Assuming this is what he wants, the best course of action is to take the same compromise that Syaoran's suit did; explicitly state that on personnel, it can only have a shield strength of Tier 3. Meanwhile, on a power armor, it'd have full functionality.

raz said:

No. As I said earlier, find solutions that work instead of looking for technical reasons why they cannot. Wes seemed to like the thought.

Enable cool ideas, don't be a gatekeeper because "muh the rules" or "reee I don't like Zack!"

Guess we're waiting on Fred, though.

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We've given 'cool ideas that work' and he's ignored them. And yeah I'm not liking Zack right now. You know why? He called foul on my submission and got it nerfed, but being -more- reasonable than what he's doing right now. At least my system was technically powered. But he didn't accept that it should have access to PA shields. But now he's giving an -unpowered- system PA shields. In what world does hypocrisy deserve privilege?

He wanted the rules enforced, so they need to be enforced. So the system should be limited to Personnel level shields, unless it's restricted to a PA only system.

This thread is getting too long for dumb ol' me.
I have a question about the hardware, minus shield. When the unit is active is it still just a backpack or something like this:

It's a backpack @Rizzo , just a backpack. No additional body protection or anything like that. No powered frame or even a bodyglove.

It's just a backpack. It's designed to be used by species with different sizes, shapes, and even limb configurations. It provides no strength augmentation or protection other than a spherical barrier field and the ability to fly/hover very quickly over the ground.

I don't think it makes sense for the barrier to become more powerful when strapped onto a power armour, I think how powerful it can be depends on how large the generator is. The only way it would make sense for it to become more powerful when used by a PA is if it deliberately functioned differently for an unprotected wearer, to avoid causing them discomfort or other issues, and if that's a risk, it seems strange there'd be no such effects at tier 3, since that's already a heavy barrier field, equivalent to that which would be worn by someone in full, sealed combat armour.

The compromise there, such as it is, is that this is not a conformal barrier, it's a bubble. The unit still seems pretty light for what's getting squeezed out of it (something that wasn't addressed the last however many times I said it, either, I think? The answer just seems to be 'Yamataian tech, even though it's not.') I could try to come up with some interesting drawbacks to balance out how high-powered it is, but it seems to me that Zack just wants it to work very well, be very practical and easy to make and use, and have a wide variety of applications, that's all.

Yes, that's what I'm actually suggesting; that the shield generator is actually capable of doing more, but for safety reasons, must limit itself when only worn by infantry wearing personnel level protection. However, it doesn't seem that Zack is keen on this at all, even though it's the same exact compromise he had Syaoran take.

It's not about whether or not it's conformal or a bubble, and though that would likely affect the degree of user hazard, it'd still be unusable.

The thing people don't seem to be understanding is that, in no way shape or form can this pack considered 'power armor' grade as it is, because there are no restrictions to non power armor using it. That would be like someone using a power armor rifle as unarmored infantry and just saying "It works" to the massive recoil that would have that would actually likely damage the wielder. It also specifically goes against the notion mentioned earlier, that they don't want Neko's being able to take on PAs just by putting on a shield back pack.

All of that is ignoring the fact that literally it says "barriers are the strength of what deploys them" So as long as the item doesn't have a mode change or some kind of power armor restriction that prevents it form being PA strength out side of being attached to a PA, it's all breaking the rules.

A lot of people also don't seem to be thinking about the repercussions of allowing this submission to fly. If this is allowed, what's to stop someone from making a T5 personnel barrier? Or 6? Or even 9? What would you all say then? "Oh just put a limit on how high up you can go."? Well you're being told right now that the limit is -already- there. And the limit is 'strong as what deploys it"

It's not just that. We discussed earlier with Wes and Fred that anything above personnel level shielding used by personnel would basically start doing nasty things to the user. What, we haven't all agreed on, but for certain, it makes it impractical at least and deadly at worst.

Syaoran said:

A lot of people also don't seem to be thinking about the repercussions of allowing this submission to fly. If this is allowed, what's to stop someone from making a T5 personnel barrier?

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There are no implications. Any of that would be overpowered, and stopped by setting submission reviewers.

This isn't overpowered. I don't really get the obstructionism from you guys (well, I do, but we don't need to go over that here).

raz said:

There are no implications. Any of that would be overpowered, and stopped by setting submission reviewers.

This isn't overpowered. I don't really get the obstructionism from you guys (well, I do, but we don't need to go over that here).

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It is over powered because it's over the actual rules that are in place. What part of that do you not actually get? The DR V3 guide specifically says barriers are the same strength as what deploys it. There is no way you can consider this little backpack that can be equipped by a naked person and has non PA speeds as a PA item. You say it's not 'overpowered' but in what way? It gives Uso's faction infantry an unfair advantage against other factions infantry, because it's literally against the rules as it is. If you don't consider an unfair advantage that literally going above the rules, you might need to reconsider your values on what is 'fair' and 'balanced'.

Syaoran said:

because it's literally against the rules as it is.

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No it's not. Rofl.

You're being a real jerk.

55 pounds doesn't seem little as in trivial to me. There are aether generators, what, the size of a toaster? There's the aether powered candy fabricator.

If it's just a backpack it'd be a heavy one. it would need its own power source and all the cool shield hardware...
Why not just make it an accessory to a power suit? You'll need something to protect your skin from the field of shield anyway. A cheap power suit can be made for the soldier fairly easy.

Ooooor, exo-suit it up! Maybe it can deploy into an exo-suit for humanoids, who'd need/want it and just have people wear a protective suit of something. maybe use spray on clothing.

Then there wouldn't be a technicality to speak of.

This is intended to be used with a full suit later on down the road, but for right now I'm just building the pieces one by one.

You see how hard it is to get gear through the NTSE that's already similar to what's out there.