Should we adopt a resource point system for shipbuilding?

[Wes]

Simply put, Yangfan, I think your system is too complicated. Loyalty and such are something to consider, but I don't want to mix them with shipbuilding.

Writing ship designs is itself is a complex OOC task, and you really need to account for each subsystem to avoid abuse. Otherwise people will just cram hundreds of guns onto a hull and call it a "light escort".

Subsystems are already accounted for with the recent system. The chart is set up in such a way that any current or new ship should be fairly easy to measure in both damage ratings and resource points.

Secondary Guns - does the figure change depending on the number of guns you have? The basic rules don't make it clear.

Yes, their points are measured as Damage Rating multiplied by 10 multiplied by the total number of actual gun emplacements of that type. Sakura's a bad example in that one respect - I just counted all the pods as one system, since they're all generated in the same place as needed.

 

[Zakalwe]

You don't take into account cloaking technology which isn't inbuilt into the hull.

Also what counts as a 'section'?

 

[Yangfan]

I'm quite happy with only using resource points, but I still believe that major population centers should worth more than other systems.

 

[Wes]

You don't take into account cloaking technology which isn't inbuilt into the hull.

Also what counts as a 'section'?

I would count stealth systems like that as a second shield system (points equal to the point cost of the main shield system).

A section is a piece of a ship. The Sakura, for example, has:

Armor Sections:

1. Bridge
2. Main Body Upper
3. Main Body Lower
4. Main Gun
5. Left Pylon
6. Right Pylon
7. Left Engine
8. Right Engine

It's kind of common sense, like "nose area of the ship" or "communications and sensor mast" or "rear engine assembly" etc.

Edit: Sakura upgrades made during the creation of the SRP page have resulted in an increase in SRP cost for the Sakura. This makes the "worth X Sakura gunships" a little higher than it should be.

 

[Zakalwe]

*nods* Thanks.

Just working out the Concordia.

Where shall we post the information once we've worked it out?

 

[Wes]

You can post it here if you'd like. Eventually, all this should be in all the ship stats' 4. Performance Statistics sections.

 

[Zakalwe]

Concordia:

CDD: 1100
Hyperspace Drive: 100
SubLight: 50
Main Gun: 150
Secondary Guns: 350
Main Generator: 400
Environmental Systems: 13
Computer: 100
Armour: 750
Sensors: 100
Shields (and Cloak): 1600.

Total: 4713.

Relatively cheap, no?

 

[Wes]

How many hull sections?

Edit: Also, I counted fifteen sensors on the scout.

 

[Zakalwe]

I stated three. It doesn't have pylons or extruding engines. However I'll increase it by two if you think that the engine requires it.

One thing that isn't accounted for is the incredibly spartan interior ... I made this ship to be very cheap and yet the fact that I cut down on every luxury inside makes no impact on resources.

 

[Wes]

Well, we could always add minor bonuses and penalties.

The funishings, however, don't have much to do with the actual ship building, though, so maybe they shouldn't be counted. That's something that'd be added afterward.

I think that most ships should have their engine as a hull section - otherwise, other ships are going to focus on depleting the DR of the main body sections instead. >,>

 

[Zakalwe]

I mean like a complete lack of volumetric projection technology, no advanced technology in the medbay (beyond ST).

The current system doesn't incorporated Size into the design. I think this is important when it comes to small scout ships being heaper than destroyers.

It's also strange that the CCD is so very expensive when compared with Hyperspace Drive.

 

[Karma Mechanic]

Sfrarabla Mishhuvurthyar Nougpift Current Resources:

Total SMN SRP/cycle: 1,100,000 (About 71.4 Sakura Gunships)

Aww snap! The Mishhu are kicking ass...

On a side note this gives people a greater incentive to purchase ships from others, yay commerce! Also there is a greater incentive to actually refit older ships, because its cost effective.

 

[Wes]

The current system doesn't incorporated Size into the design. I think this is important when it comes to small scout ships being heaper than destroyers.

Bigger ships should have more sections. The Chiharu has something like 20 major armor sections and its turrets and command center are also counted, for instance.

It's also strange that the CCD is so very expensive when compared with Hyperspace Drive.

That's intentional. CDD is a newer tech and harder to set up.

Also, I just came up with a new general rule: scrapping an older ship will allow you to reclaim 50% of its SRP value.

 

[Abwehran Commander]

Now this is starting to come together. Since we're doing this by system, and the Jaspis System already has a lot of mining going on in the system as well as a set infastructure for industry...I think I'll have the Abwehran Empire listed as follows.

Abwehran Star Empire:
Jaspis System (mineral rich): 100,000 SRP

Total Abwehran SRP/cycle: 100,000 SRP


Would this seem about right?

 

[Karma Mechanic]

The current system doesn't incorporated Size into the design. I think this is important when it comes to small scout ships being heaper than destroyers.

Bigger ships should have more sections. The Chiharu has something like 20 major armor sections and its turrets and command center are also counted, for instance.

I think we need to develop a classification system based on the size of the ship, this system would allow us to easily see how much armour a ship actually has(ships about the size of the Sakura should have a roughly equivelent amount of armour). In addition, I think that the size of a ship might have some effect on the cost of CDD/CFS/Hyperspace considering things like that the CDD from a Fox class shuttle should be smaller and cheaper, and a Fox drive unit certianly would not be powerful enough to push a Sakura or Yui to the Fox's max speed of 5000c.

Also size might have some effect on the cost of a shielding systems, even if the shields have the same defensive rating the shielding system must be larger (and more expensive). Say both a Misshuvurthyar scout and Misshuvurthyar Main Battleship are both fielding a level 7 shield for the sake of the arguement, the shielding system on the Battleship would have to be comparitively larger, and therefore more expensive.

I've been trying to classify ships, so I could work out a few size modifers for them.

 

[DocTomoe]

The third planet of the Lor system is a moonless world which relatively recently has began its cooling phase of its existence. Even though it has began to cool, the surface of this planet remains volcanically active, and is rich in minerals, not only from its own formation, but from a moon which it once had that had an unstable orbit which caused the moon to impact with the planet during the shift of the Lor system's sun to a Red Giant.

So, do the Lorath get to exploit this resource now, or will the Lorath have to wait until next cycle?

 

[Yangfan]

I believe the first priority should be converting all ships currently in IC usage (or at least currently being manufactured) to the point system.

 

[Karma Mechanic]

I still agree with Zakalwe in thinking we need to take into account the size of ships before we can move ahead with the point system (see my last post for some reasons). And on that note I have already finished classifying the common KFY craft into 12 size categories, based on each ships dimensions.

Class 1: Iori Star Fortress
Class 2: Ecstasy Recreation Ship, Hummingbird Colony Craft
Class 3: Chiharu Flagship, Kyoto Carrier, Takumi ECC, Katsuko Colony Installation
Class 4: Jihi Hospital Ship
Class 5: Yuumi Battleship, Anri Repair Vessel
Class 6: Ayame Cruiser
Class 7: Irim Gunship, Arashi Escort, Miharu Escort
Class 8: Sakura Gunship
Class 9: Odori Freighter, Nozomi Scout, Yui 4/5 Scouts, KFY Geological Survey Platform
Class 10: Ketsueki corvette
Class 11: Uriko Bomber, Fox T4 Shuttle, Kitty T2 Shuttle
Class 12: Common Sized Power Armours

Classification took me maybe about 2 minutes each on average (and I got faster as I did it), so it wouldn't be hard to classify every other ship this way. If we had a modifier for each size class we could easily work that into the cost formulas.

 

[Strangelove]

Hmm... the Saorstat Deoradh are going to be difficult to figure out using this system...

• They effectively own no planets, other than a barren planetoid which nothing more than a shipyard. All their shipbuilding resources comes from asteroid mining. I don't know what the average planetbound-to-spacebased resource ratio is, so it's difficult to effectively guess their wealth in resource points.
  
• As a nomadic race without a habitable planet, their maximum population has been considerably held back by their available resources and starship production. For this reason scientists gear nearly all their research towards efficiency engineering: Making ships cheaper to build, easier to repair, speeding up production time, and so on. Unlike most races, they actually spend very little of their time and resources attempting to gain more powerful and more complex technology. (This is because they can barely support their population with their current technology level, a condition that would only be worsened if they started building more powerful and more complex technology, or so they believe.) Would this style of engineering and science have an impact on the multipliers? Or the fact they have among the most primitive starship technologies of any spacefaring race?
  
• Also due to their starvation for resources, the Deoradh as individuals live in relative poverty with very few material luxuries, not unlike monks would. They instead look to non-material means for leisure and luxury (virtual reality, games, religion) in order to save resources. They also recycle literally everything possible. Their physiology also allows them to effectively tolerate the poisons and radiation produced by their own starships, allowing them to safely repurpose materials such as radioactive waste or industrial byproducts. Would such resource-efficient lifestyles effect the total resource points per cycle?

 

[Karma Mechanic]

Hmm... the Saorstat Deoradh are going to be difficult to figure out using this system...

• They effectively own no planets, other than a barren planetoid which nothing more than a shipyard. All their shipbuilding resources comes from asteroid mining.

I would think you still get credits for mining asteriods in the Great Lighthouse system.

• As a nomadic race without a habitable planet.... For this reason scientists gear nearly all their research towards efficiency engineering.... Would this style of engineering and science have an impact on the multipliers? Or the fact they have among the most primitive starship technologies of any spacefaring race?

Even in the point system as it currently stands, less advanced tech reduces the number of credits required. On the other point maybe Wes can give the Saorstat Deoradh a better reclaim value on scrapping and/or a slight reduction in initial construction costs, but that would be his call, I'm just making a suggestion.

• Also due to their starvation for resources, the Deoradh as individuals live in relative poverty... They also recycle literally everything possible... Would such resource-efficient lifestyles effect the total resource points per cycle?

Again maybe something similar to my second answer.