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Mecha in SAoY

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Do you mean to make having a transforming frame be worthwhile?

Even if it is, I have to be fair. I dislike the idea because just a small amount of damage in the wrong place would render it incapable of switching modes; keep in mind that the Macross designs were made to fight against giants. Any damage they took was likely to already be fatal. That isn't going to be the case here in SARP, and it's also important that they can shrug off some heavy blows to take pressure off of any PA infantry that need the help. That job would likely impede or go against the purpose of having a transformable frame or mech.
 
While I love Mecha in general, I must agree with CadetNewb. The idea of a fully transforming mecha is only viable in a setting if their tech allows for them to be superior to anything. As noted, the transforming can easily be damaged beyond repair in this setting, as even PA's carry big and heavy guns.

Regular mechs suffer from the same tech that makes the Neko's and PA's fly. They dont really bring anything to the field that cant be done by a hovertank of some sort. The only viable way for a mech in the sub 10 meter class to exist will be the middle-ground between a mech and a tank. Aka: Hildolfr www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZuZdykKwxE

Bigger Mechs are another story. But those tend to get in the area of size or loadouts where we see stuff like Bolo's appear.
 
Uh, what you said and showed was a little confusing. It seemed like you just agreed with me on transforming not being a good idea, and then said it was? I love Gundam, but if anyone ever did ask me, I'd be one of the first to say their size was just plain silly. Anyways, I think it was missed, but I did point out why Frames are more handy in tanks in certain situations; they can melee. That's something invaluable in city fighting, and even more so when the Space Opera music starts playing. Plus, if the design is appropriately modular, they can easily beat a tank in the firepower department.
 
You're operating under the influence that this machine would be all hard exoskeleton parts and motorized joints and pistons.

Try to imagine... More like a synthetic octopus. A rubbery metalloid compound that if torn, can reknit really really easily, that can harden and soften that has components surgically implanted in it almost. That you then build armor around. The components don't heal. But the compound does and it can act like a second layer of protection to boot.

The problem of unnecessary complication is solved the moment you design the thing to break and continue working broken without any problems while it fixes itself.

Even following amputation, if it can find the limb, it can put it mostly back together provided it isn't annihilated. Whatever components are implanted in it might be smashed and need repair or replacing, but the overall platform itself would be fine.

I can see them entering enemy urban spaces strictly so bombardment tactics can't be used.


This is a Type D 105. It takes a team of high-grade players just to disarm it, let alone even contemplate destroying it.

Something that if its struck fatally, the collateral could be made be huge by design.

I figure a popular use would either be as a small gunship in inter-system defensive roles, or as an attacker: using its thick armor to pass through orbital defenses, purging the ablative layers (which are incredibly thick) and then securing itself to a populated location and striking at tactical assets in orbit from the ground knowing the enemy probably won't return fire and that if they did, it would self-destruct wiping out a massive area.

Failing that, it could dive beneath an ocean and surface to strike like a submarine.

It reeks of terrorism, doesn't it?
 
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Actually, I do think transformational mechs have some uses, not in the tactical level, but at the strategic level. Something like the Macross VFs can self deploy at high speed, then transit to "ground pounder" mode for local area fighting. It would allow less units to cover more area without the need to spend more on high speed transports or to recover the units to be dropped from orbit again as a QRF. Or inversely, to quickly gather more forces to react to a situation. So basically, a "high speed" mode gives you flexibility to spread out or to concentrate fast. Of course, PA can do that too if you designed them for high speed transit, but from the looks of things, it seems that most PA don't really go that fast, hence the need for shuttles and APCs.

Of course, the "half-plane/half-humanoid" form is technically useless if you think of it this way.

Edit: Just to be clear, this is not a post to request inclusion of mecha in SAoY, it is a general observation. I realised it could have been misinterpreted, hence the disclaimer. To really use transformable mecha in a strategic sense, you have to restructure the whole army around the quick reaction concept, which is a huge dislocation. It is possible for a new army, very hard for an old established one.

From what I see, the SAoY is structured around a "marine" concept, light infantry from naval units in drop strikes similar to the tactics in Halo. If you want mecha, enemy forces might be a better bet as their strategic doctrine is more nebulous. And if you do, PA weapons need to improve a bit to counter them as well. Something like a "one shot" AT weapon against mecha would be nice, think WWII Panzerfaust.
 
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The problem is that we can make purely humanoid mecha fly, Nightowl. There's literally no need to transform them just to move them around at high speed. Again, it just comes down to the transformation side of things just adds more parts to break, with literally no purpose. If we need fighters, we have plenty of them. We don't need more. What we need is gunship equivalents (in which case, landing is silly, and there's no point in a humanoid form at all) and high powered tank equivalents (in which case the transforming is both unnecessary and an additional risk).
 
That's kinda huge for close support, Doshii. 120 meters is a fucking huge target. A good close support vehicle would probably be 20 meters on the large side, with a decent number of SDR 1-2 weapons, that way it would hit hard on the armor and personal scale, but wouldn't be too oversized.
 
What if we just put a howitzer in the side of a plane and call it awesome. Then it won't ever need to approach the enemy head on. AC-130 is probably today's ultimate gunship. May be worth considering a similar design
 
Wait wait wait.

Where is this topic even headed for anymore?

So, to sum up...
You don't want giant robots. You don't want transformable giant robots. Anti-gravity makes legs pretty much irrelevant. Any limb use could really be just a mechanical tentacle. And now we're talking gunships.

Oookay.
So far, our genius yields tentacled hovertanks/helicopters capable of carrying railguns. This really was the Mishhuvurthyar.
 
That was Osaka's idea, I don't see the rest of us pushing that one. And I feel obliged to point out that both me and Cadet have been arguing against the transforming, not against the use of mecha period. There are two different needs to be filled here, and they would have completely different results.

In terms of a gunship, that's not too far off, Sham. The problem is that you're looking at it the wrong way. The role of an AC-130 is played by starships for us. That's not close support. Close support is the role usually played by attack helicopters or A-10s. A decent idea would be something that is almost akin to a tank upside down for us, I think. Decently flat, with a low profile to keep it a small target where possible, but with the rotational turret system to allow for a wide range of fire angles. Almost like... actually think of the gunner's ports on the Millenium falcon.
 
Aendri, I did mention PA could do the same thing. If you designed them for it. And I already did mention different army types. In this case, the SAoY is similar to the USMC, light infantry based, backed up by AH-1Zs and Harriers (your gunships). The QRF type army is a different type, and does not have an analog here. You're still looking specifically at the SAoY when I was giving a general example. An example of the QRF type of army might be, at a stretch, the US Army's Stryker type brigades, at least in concept. The transforming mecha would be a mechanized based army, not a light infantry based one. Hence my point that it is unsuitable for the SAoY.

Personally, I don't like the idea of a gunship. In a setting where everyone and their grandmother are carrying high powered weapons, something drifting around in the sky is a very big target where everyone will be shooting at. It will either have to hit and run or literally be a flying fortress, which I doubt spaceships have much space for. Some better approaches might be either the "one shot" armour piercing weapons for infantry, basically a much more powerful version of the L72 LAW for those extra hard targets, or a specialized AT team/PA. This approach would fit with the infantry based doctrine of the SAoY. Conversely, they could have an artillery support vehicle for long ranged indirect fire support against the super tough targets while at the same time keeping out of the line of fire. Mark the target and call the rain.

A specialized AT team might be the simplest, you can get a Daisy to lug a Mindy's weapons, specifically the Aether-Sabre Rifle.
 
Actually, I do think transformational mechs have some uses, not in the tactical level, but at the strategic level. Something like the Macross VFs can self deploy at high speed, then transit to "ground pounder" mode for local area fighting. It would allow less units to cover more area without the need to spend more on high speed transports or to recover the units to be dropped from orbit again as a QRF. Or inversely, to quickly gather more forces to react to a situation. So basically, a "high speed" mode gives you flexibility to spread out or to concentrate fast. Of course, PA can do that too if you designed them for high speed transit, but from the looks of things, it seems that most PA don't really go that fast, hence the need for shuttles and APCs.

Of course, the "half-plane/half-humanoid" form is technically useless if you think of it this way.

The point of Gerwalk is to get the fidelity and off-bore firing capabilities of your ground-pounder mode while acting as a VTOL.

It means instead of making a full transformation, you can either throw your entire engine pod in reverse to come to a stop, lower them and hit the ground *REALLY* hard and keep skimming at high speed at low altitutde or you can strike a target next to or even behind you with a primary weapons-pod.

Given that different nations follow different tactical doctrine concepts, there's room for this somewhere, even if not within the SAOY.

Why am I obsessed with disruptive super-weapon WMDs recently? Anyway, onwards...

In terms of specifications, I see the following of our Mechanized Gunship, or M.G. as I'm calling it (ha!)

In terms of scale, the platform is somewhere between 50 to 70 meters long and is a category 4 starship.

0. The platform makes use of highly calculated in-system FTL and includes an ablative outer-form of simple drones or missiles which can detatch and pursue to distract domestic defenses just long enough for this thing to get planetside. It has to throw smoke to turn heads to slip through the door. This functionality is of the upmost importance. Lacking chambers inside means it can have MUCH thicker armor than a gunship of comparable size.

1. A platform smaller than a gunship which has an equal or larger powerplant due to the lack of displacement caused by internal decks

2. A platform which can move at high speed, then repurpose the same system that gave mobility into a defensive barrier of considerable strength. The reason for the change in its shape, with the landing gear and off-bore weapons is primarily to create this functional shift by relocating the topology of projectors.

3. This platform would be capable of surviving a high powered orbit to surface strike, in spite of surrounding collatoral and the failure this same barrier.

4. The platform would have a weapon capable of returning fire from surface to orbit. Given two main guns, one would be to knock down the defenses of the enemy target and the second to skewer them.

5. The platform wouldn't strictly be "transformable" so much as it would be mechanized, able to fold up features into a sleaker shape, rather than "becoming an aircraft", so to speak. In practice, this could tie in to the system which allows it the high mobility.

6. It would probably make use of an orbitally deployed satalite network of its own, used to monitor for incoming starships and deployments over a given sphere of operations

7. It would have a sufficiently advanced computation, telemetrics and communications system to pass what it sights with these systems as viable targetting information to other deployed frendly units.

8. Its large size and unwieldy motion leave it vulnerable to power-armor: Weapons-pods acting as power-armor which are radically simpler, cheaper and used in large numbers are a must.

9. A secondary weapon would be a high velocity electromagnetically propelled gun either with nuclear or aetheric payload which can be fired parabolically: Either to strike targets elsewhere on the planetoid as fire-support or using ballistic computation and proximity fuses to detonate and destroy incoming bombardment ordanance such as torpedos and aetheric missiles launched from orbit to defend a given position.


On paper, the attack would go something like this:

1. Starships enter system.
2. Starships enter intercept, others remain defensively.
3. The mechanized gunship (MG) enters the combat theatre.
4. It enters its FTL sequence
5. Within range, dumps drones
6. Getting close to the planetoid, the gravitational interference or mass-locking causes it to slow the hell down (I like to think this is why we don't just FTL rod from god things).
7. Enters atmosphere
8. Touches down in a highly populated area
9. Switches to defensive mode, deploys weapons-pods.
10. Starts picking at ships that come too close to the planet, giving an opening for drop-ships or other units

Its purpose at first isn't bombardment but for an attacking force to get their foot in the door. Its a combination of ranged bombardment, communications and terror-weapon designed to make the enemy hesitate just long enough to get a force planetside and have the ordanance to keep it safe enough to do its job. It digs down. It turtles. It holds a position to support other units. It won't last long enough to occupy territory but long enough to get in units which *can*.

The serious flaw of this machine is its service life-span and the development of weapons and defensive systems would mean the frame itself would have to be refitted anually to keep it functionally relevant.

Worse still, lacking internal compartments, easy access to key systems and a very low crew, it is dependant on either extensive maintanance or resources to conduct repairs independently.

If a weapon on this thing breaks, it isn't going to be operational for hours or even days, rather than minutes or hours as it might be on a gunship.

I can also see it making an excellent defensive vessel within starships in interception roles.

I wonder if this is what Hal Emmerich felt like?
 
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I think the topic bot a bit off track here. A mecha is not a Gunship. Period, and if you try to make it one it's going to fail. Simply because a gunship is something that's totally airborn. You guys are kind of ignoring the advantages of a mech because you're thinking 'gunship'. If you want to talk about making a new type of gunship that should go in a thread about gunships. This is a mecha thread, we should be discussing the unique advantages of Mecha here, not trying to make mecha be something else.

Now so that it can't be said that I didn't give input after saying that. Like I said before we should be thinking 'mobile weapons platform' and 'artillery' in terms of mecha. Granted they can melee as well, but it doesn't need transformations which are essentially a gimmick, and we should consider it's functionality at ground, low altitude and high altitude. A mecha is a piece of equipment that can transition between battlefields as well, so that should be taken into account.

For SAoY I would think the line of thought needed for a mehca to work is something along the lines of thinking about a humanoid or other land based form at the core, since this is for -infantry- support as well. Also SAoY already uses construction mecha, but you would need construction in battle sometimes too, clearing blockades without weapons fire, and other terrain demolition could be taken into consideration. But the most important part is it's armaments. Making it only 'strong' isn't really useful. If it's going to play infantry support it needs to be able to easily change equipment just like the infantry so that it can fit the mission and make up of the squad.
 
Syaoran, we got a Mishhuvurthyar on line 2 looking for you, he said he was interested in your designs, should we ask him to call you back? :)

For mecha, I'd say right idea, wrong army. You're more likely to get Bazookas than King Tigers in the SAoY if you used WWII analogies. Besides, having it be infantry based gives you a lot more scope for RP. Where's the fun in going "Target, target, target... oh, just glass the area.." every time you see a tough enemy?

Osakan, you feeling very Tau today? Manta Destroyer
:)
 
@Nightowl the whole point of what we're saying is that Yam doesn't have enough ground support options for its infantry. We're trying to come up with a mecha that -does- fit into what SAoY needs and does. Because all they have are PAs and a little bit of ground based vehicles that can be used effectively. And the current design of gunship that you guys are focusing on is more Mishhu than just a pure mecha.
 
Syaoran, we got a Mishhuvurthyar on line 2 looking for you, he said he was interested in your designs, should we ask him to call you back? :)

For mecha, I'd say right idea, wrong army. You're more likely to get Bazookas than King Tigers in the SAoY if you used WWII analogies. Besides, having it be infantry based gives you a lot more scope for RP. Where's the fun in going "Target, target, target... oh, just glass the area.." every time you see a tough enemy?

Osakan, you feeling very Tau today? Manta Destroyer
:)

>Osakan, you feeling very Tau today? Manta Destroyer
>mfw

ahentai.juicygif.com_albums_userpics_2014y_05_21_7_1_6103pVcfOrt_hjgif.gif

He's kinda handsome~ <3 Bara, I'd say definitely bara. Probably keeps to himself but secretly would really like to be in the spot-light. For a heavyset guy, he can really run, can't he?
 
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Knew you'll like it. :)

Syaoran, why not just give us infantrymen slightly more powerful weapons and let us strut our stuff instead of letting those cannon-cockers hog all the glory?

"You guys wanna live forever!!!??"
"Ok who was the joker who said yes?"
 
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