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OOC [OOC] Sakura Discussion
- Thread starter Wes
- Start date
DocTomoe
Inactive Member
Wes said:
It was a known fact that he was suffering from post traumatic stress, and personality disorders. Along with those disorders, he was suffering from alienation by his crew mates due to the recent species requirements set by the Empire. He went crazy, he has a non-crazy backup, two different people in all technicality. The Miles who went crazy got his dues, he died by a NH-28's gatling. The Miles sitting in a SS pod is innocent (and stable) , and was saved to that pod for a reason.
Either way, the Miles who snapped was going to be treated for his psychological disorders, that is until a Black Spiral Mindy came and got in the way of the leave. If a revived Miles is persecuted, it would be easily dismissed due to psychological/mental defect in the Miles who existed after the SS Pod save.
Added note: Damn, thats a fine waste of character art.
Abwehran Commander
Inactive Member
Yay, first time for me posting here. If you didn't want me to post, forgive me, but I must express my appreciation. The entire session of Miles going insane was brilliant roleplay. The entire scene between Hanako and Miles was also great, especially the inescapable end to the entire thing.
It's really the best thing I've read from an roleplay forum in a while, and I salute all of you for a job well done.
It's really the best thing I've read from an roleplay forum in a while, and I salute all of you for a job well done.
There is potential for ressurection if cells only recently deceased though the probability of him surviving is quite high if living cells can be appropriated.
Mentally, it might not be a perfect faccimille but since the two shared contact, the general frequency sets of his brainwaves and the configuration of his neurons is recorded with enough accuracy to restore him...
Mentally, it might not be a perfect faccimille but since the two shared contact, the general frequency sets of his brainwaves and the configuration of his neurons is recorded with enough accuracy to restore him...
Toshiro
Inactive Member
Many of you blame Tomoe for RPing like that, but I don't see how he could have done it any other way and have been in character.
Miles had previously RPed both mental instability and dislike of being transferred to a Yamataian body, both of which were drastically increased recently through IC events. For him to shrug off the transfer or ask for psychological help are simply not canon of his character. The fact that Tomoe RPed his character in a way his character would likely react rather than picking the "safest" route is actually admirable.
Secondly, I can think of five charges off the top of my head that would be brought against the others for what happened...
Accused: Taisa Ketsurui Hanako
Charge: Failure to note mental instability in Dr. Miles Gunn
The likelihood of this one ever seeing court is minimal, though it has to be considered at least briefly. Seeing as Miles was secretive about his mental issues, that Hanako was the most direct victim of Miles' actions, and that she is of the Ketsurui Clan, this charge may vanish quite quickly, before Hanako is even aware of its consideration.
Accused: Sprites
Charge: Failure to obey the Orders of a Superior Officer (Dr. Miles Gunn)
Seeing as Dr. Gunn proposed an effective and simple treatment for his condition, but was completely ignored, this charge would be difficult to defend against, save perhaps by noting the chaotic nature of the situation. Given that, the charge might be reduced to "Failure to abide by the Wishes of a Patient". MEGAMI, being Shosa equivalent, is of a higher rank than Miles. Also, it is not a doctor, and is not lumped in this charge.
Accused: Sprites/MEGAMI
Charge: Failure to note and defend against Psychological Issues of a Patient (Dr. Miles Gunn)
Given that Miles reacted with violence and made quite lucid and disturbing threats to the sprites, his mental state was painfully obvious. After being transferred to a Yamataian body (or before if it were possible) he should have been placed in stasis immediately. This charge should be particularly hard to defend against.
Accused: Sprites
Charge: Violation of Hippocratic Oath
If either of the above two charges stick, then this one should be nigh indefensible. The actions of the sprites lead to complete mental psychosis and his eventual death, as well as any hard that came to any other character. A physician must not cause harm...but harm was indeed caused. MEGAMI is not a doctor in itself, and is not part of this charge.
Accused: Sprites/MEGAMI
Charge: Failure to obey the Orders of Star Army Command
Dr. Gunn was under a two-mission amnesty from the Species Restriction Act, given that he did not wish to be upgraded and proposed an effective alternative, MEGAMI and the Sprites are in direct violation of orders given by Star Army Command, which gave Miles the right not to upgrade if he did not wish to during the allotted time, and if alternatives were viable. This one should also be nigh indefensible for MEGAMI, though the sprites could be excused for the nature of the situation they were in.
Lastly, the nature of this incident should bring another issue to light: That in writing the Species Restriction Order, Yui completely neglected to consider the psychological effects of the conversion on the soldiers, especially the Nepleslians who are more attached to their bodies. This has the potential to make large waves in Yamataian Law, if RPed correctly...
I know that if Yaichiro ever learns the specifics, he may reach the above conclusion and try to voice his concerns to Yui...
That brings up a question...is Miles' death a matter of public record? Are the circumstances as well? How much data would Yaichiro have access to, if any, about this? If none, he'll likely contact Hanako before too much longer, to voice his concerns about Miles' discontent from their last communiqué, and ask her to look into it, unaware of his death.
Miles had previously RPed both mental instability and dislike of being transferred to a Yamataian body, both of which were drastically increased recently through IC events. For him to shrug off the transfer or ask for psychological help are simply not canon of his character. The fact that Tomoe RPed his character in a way his character would likely react rather than picking the "safest" route is actually admirable.
Secondly, I can think of five charges off the top of my head that would be brought against the others for what happened...
Accused: Taisa Ketsurui Hanako
Charge: Failure to note mental instability in Dr. Miles Gunn
The likelihood of this one ever seeing court is minimal, though it has to be considered at least briefly. Seeing as Miles was secretive about his mental issues, that Hanako was the most direct victim of Miles' actions, and that she is of the Ketsurui Clan, this charge may vanish quite quickly, before Hanako is even aware of its consideration.
Accused: Sprites
Charge: Failure to obey the Orders of a Superior Officer (Dr. Miles Gunn)
Seeing as Dr. Gunn proposed an effective and simple treatment for his condition, but was completely ignored, this charge would be difficult to defend against, save perhaps by noting the chaotic nature of the situation. Given that, the charge might be reduced to "Failure to abide by the Wishes of a Patient". MEGAMI, being Shosa equivalent, is of a higher rank than Miles. Also, it is not a doctor, and is not lumped in this charge.
Accused: Sprites/MEGAMI
Charge: Failure to note and defend against Psychological Issues of a Patient (Dr. Miles Gunn)
Given that Miles reacted with violence and made quite lucid and disturbing threats to the sprites, his mental state was painfully obvious. After being transferred to a Yamataian body (or before if it were possible) he should have been placed in stasis immediately. This charge should be particularly hard to defend against.
Accused: Sprites
Charge: Violation of Hippocratic Oath
If either of the above two charges stick, then this one should be nigh indefensible. The actions of the sprites lead to complete mental psychosis and his eventual death, as well as any hard that came to any other character. A physician must not cause harm...but harm was indeed caused. MEGAMI is not a doctor in itself, and is not part of this charge.
Accused: Sprites/MEGAMI
Charge: Failure to obey the Orders of Star Army Command
Dr. Gunn was under a two-mission amnesty from the Species Restriction Act, given that he did not wish to be upgraded and proposed an effective alternative, MEGAMI and the Sprites are in direct violation of orders given by Star Army Command, which gave Miles the right not to upgrade if he did not wish to during the allotted time, and if alternatives were viable. This one should also be nigh indefensible for MEGAMI, though the sprites could be excused for the nature of the situation they were in.
Lastly, the nature of this incident should bring another issue to light: That in writing the Species Restriction Order, Yui completely neglected to consider the psychological effects of the conversion on the soldiers, especially the Nepleslians who are more attached to their bodies. This has the potential to make large waves in Yamataian Law, if RPed correctly...
I know that if Yaichiro ever learns the specifics, he may reach the above conclusion and try to voice his concerns to Yui...
That brings up a question...is Miles' death a matter of public record? Are the circumstances as well? How much data would Yaichiro have access to, if any, about this? If none, he'll likely contact Hanako before too much longer, to voice his concerns about Miles' discontent from their last communiqué, and ask her to look into it, unaware of his death.
Okay, I've got some time here...so here's a rebuttal!
If we take into account Miles' mental instability, then it is entirely possible that he thought he could be cured, but was actually quite terminal as the sprites told him. You may be able to make a case for this; however, it's unlikely a tribunal would rule in Miles' favor.
One could make a case for this, depending on the obligations of the sprites under Star Army law (which I don't think has covered any case quite like this).
There is no such thing as the Hippocratic Oath in this universe, mostly because Hippocrates existed before any human can possibly remember. Now, perhaps there is an equivalent, but one can hardly blame the sprites, who would think that Miles would appreciate the new body once he was inside (mistaken as they were).
As I said before, Miles was not in the right state of mind to determine the health of his body; the order became null and void once it was determined that he was dying, and the sprites acted in the best interest of keeping a distinguished officer alive.
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I think the major problem here is not Miles' reaction - no one expected him to take a transfer nicely, everyone expected him to be violent, and most people expected him to injure himself in the process. However, he went absolutely berzerk, hugely overdoing his character's reaction; he went and got a Kylie and began damaging the Sakura and its systems; and he managed to get himself cut in half, and then killed by an aether gatling assault.
Essentially, rather than going a little crazy, he went completely fucknuts and made very long speeches, got himself injured beyond what would be reasonable, and basically got himself killed through his own actions.
Toshiro said:
If we take into account Miles' mental instability, then it is entirely possible that he thought he could be cured, but was actually quite terminal as the sprites told him. You may be able to make a case for this; however, it's unlikely a tribunal would rule in Miles' favor.
Toshiro said:
One could make a case for this, depending on the obligations of the sprites under Star Army law (which I don't think has covered any case quite like this).
Toshiro said:
There is no such thing as the Hippocratic Oath in this universe, mostly because Hippocrates existed before any human can possibly remember. Now, perhaps there is an equivalent, but one can hardly blame the sprites, who would think that Miles would appreciate the new body once he was inside (mistaken as they were).
Toshiro said:
As I said before, Miles was not in the right state of mind to determine the health of his body; the order became null and void once it was determined that he was dying, and the sprites acted in the best interest of keeping a distinguished officer alive.
<center>* * *</center>
I think the major problem here is not Miles' reaction - no one expected him to take a transfer nicely, everyone expected him to be violent, and most people expected him to injure himself in the process. However, he went absolutely berzerk, hugely overdoing his character's reaction; he went and got a Kylie and began damaging the Sakura and its systems; and he managed to get himself cut in half, and then killed by an aether gatling assault.
Essentially, rather than going a little crazy, he went completely fucknuts and made very long speeches, got himself injured beyond what would be reasonable, and basically got himself killed through his own actions.
Toshiro
Inactive Member
It was still just as possible to use his Nepleslian DNA and generate a new Nepleslian body rather than a Yamataian one. The last charge could still apply because of that detail, especially since it would be a bit easier to use his original Nepleslian DNA than compute a Yamataian equivalent... (Though I have no doubt Hanako had such a DNA code pre-made for him.)
Except that Miles Gunn was still a standing officer in the Star Army, who does not cater to its Nepleslian soldiers in that way - what reason would they have to do so, when they could be transferred into a superior body? Thus, the sprites not only did what they thought was best, but also followed orders!
Toshiro
Inactive Member
...He was specificly given amnesty from that Species Restriction Order for two missions, which is an order in itself. It meant they couldn't put him in a Yamataian body against his will if alternatives were present, and even if Miles' idea was incorrect, they could still have made a Nepleslian body.
It was essentially illegal to force him into that Yamataian body because of the exemption order. Also, with that logic, all yamataians would be upgraded into NH-29s.
Not as clear-cut as it seemed at first, is it?
It was essentially illegal to force him into that Yamataian body because of the exemption order. Also, with that logic, all yamataians would be upgraded into NH-29s.
Not as clear-cut as it seemed at first, is it?
Fred
Retired Staff
Miles, in earlier missions, had mentioned that soul transfer was a last resort measure - what he wanted was to have his body last as long as he possibly could.
In this case, his body as going to expire and Miles idea of blood transfusion was not going to give the results he wished it would give. The sprites went on to the next best solution, soul transfer... but what Miles did - in the end - was childishly rail at a situation he had never wanted to face... but no longer had any choice.
The thing responsible for that, if Miles had really taken the time to think about it - was the black Mindy armor which had assaulted him inside the detention complex... that thing was why he had been pushed into such a situation. The desire for revenge was understandable, but he channeled it completely wrong by taking it out of those whom had actually saved his life.
I'm not very forgiving to Miles because a similar situation pretty much creeped up on Kotori. It scared her too, her NH-22M body was unique and she would have preferred to keep it - but she owed her continued life to her new body, so, she eventually came to be grateful for it even if she had occasional frustrations with it.
Bad things happen to good characters and ICly, bad things indeed happened to Miles. Miles died and the desire to revive him - due to how he chose to channel his anger - is about utterly nil.
Also Yamatai puts a lot more values on memories than they put on lives. Miles' action are completely irrational from a nekovalkyrja's point of view and I seriously doubt any hearing could really be brought up. Miles was given two chances from Hanako to stop his rampage - he did not. Hanako is the ship captain and has ultimate authority on how to deal with the screw ups of her crew - higher ups from the 1st XF aren't likely to come down and slap her on the hand with the case of a crewman spacing which has occured and gone unpunished earlier on the Sakura.
In this case, his body as going to expire and Miles idea of blood transfusion was not going to give the results he wished it would give. The sprites went on to the next best solution, soul transfer... but what Miles did - in the end - was childishly rail at a situation he had never wanted to face... but no longer had any choice.
The thing responsible for that, if Miles had really taken the time to think about it - was the black Mindy armor which had assaulted him inside the detention complex... that thing was why he had been pushed into such a situation. The desire for revenge was understandable, but he channeled it completely wrong by taking it out of those whom had actually saved his life.
I'm not very forgiving to Miles because a similar situation pretty much creeped up on Kotori. It scared her too, her NH-22M body was unique and she would have preferred to keep it - but she owed her continued life to her new body, so, she eventually came to be grateful for it even if she had occasional frustrations with it.
Bad things happen to good characters and ICly, bad things indeed happened to Miles. Miles died and the desire to revive him - due to how he chose to channel his anger - is about utterly nil.
Also Yamatai puts a lot more values on memories than they put on lives. Miles' action are completely irrational from a nekovalkyrja's point of view and I seriously doubt any hearing could really be brought up. Miles was given two chances from Hanako to stop his rampage - he did not. Hanako is the ship captain and has ultimate authority on how to deal with the screw ups of her crew - higher ups from the 1st XF aren't likely to come down and slap her on the hand with the case of a crewman spacing which has occured and gone unpunished earlier on the Sakura.
Toshiro
Inactive Member
There is an element, however, that seperates Kotori and Miles in that regard...Religion/Culture. Miles placed a lot more worth in his body, and felt it as more self-defining, an attribute some Nepleslians seem to have in common.
I'm not saying Tomoe RPed the situation perfectly, but I am saying that it isn't as clear cut as it seems, and special allowances may be ICly warranted.
I'm not saying Tomoe RPed the situation perfectly, but I am saying that it isn't as clear cut as it seems, and special allowances may be ICly warranted.
Fred
Retired Staff
Erik, even if special allowances were to be granted - and this would be Hanako's province - Miles showed her that he would never be able to adapt and that his ideal for keeping his body overshadowed the relationship they had built for the 7 or so previous missions. She's never going to be able to trust him again. The rest of the crew will likely not want to interact with him anymore (or will be extremely uncomfortable/reluctant to do so - if not vindictive).
Not to mention that if he's revived again, there's the matter of the extra memories he uploaded to his previous body's cybernetics before his yamataian self died. Getting what could possibly end up as a rinse/repeat situation would likely not be desired by the crew.
There's no way they would let him stay on the Sakura or the Star Army of Yamatai in any case... he's obviously proved himself unfit for service. Heck, the best he could hope for is exile to Nepleslia (since he likes things so much better there after all, let him stay there).
Not to mention that if he's revived again, there's the matter of the extra memories he uploaded to his previous body's cybernetics before his yamataian self died. Getting what could possibly end up as a rinse/repeat situation would likely not be desired by the crew.
There's no way they would let him stay on the Sakura or the Star Army of Yamatai in any case... he's obviously proved himself unfit for service. Heck, the best he could hope for is exile to Nepleslia (since he likes things so much better there after all, let him stay there).
Abwehran Commander
Inactive Member
Problem is, things in life (or Roleplay) are seldom fair. All we mortals have to do is deal with it.
Fred
Retired Staff
What exactly are you opposed to here Erik? Are you feeling sorry for DocTomoe because his character died and that you think that salving the wound with a 'kicked out of plot but still alive somewhere' solution would make things better?
I adamantly disagree.
It might not occur to many people, but Wes has been extremely generous into allowing Miles to end his life in a bang like that. True, it's more something that will have the character remembered notoriously than with any fame...
However, Miles was able to leave the medlab by successfully disposing of the sprites there, reached his armor and actually managed to board it without anyone being the wiser (MEGAMI, what we're you doing? Sitting on your hands?!). He went out and didn't seem to raise much suspicions until he started attacking.
Miles got himself swiftly chopped in half, but he teleported to the bridge and continued being 'active' (if you look at how other nekovalkyrja characters cope with being chopped in half - even in power armor - you'll see that it typically ends the fight, and their lives, with it).
Miles even went so far as get to the shuttle with a captured Hanako and he was about to engineer a plan to try and get to the MEGAMI with the shuttle's aether cannons until finally the NIWS showed up (about time!) and put an end to his threat.
He did a lot of damage and Wes didn't try to stop him as effectively as he could - I would not have had been that generous - I would have had started to act against Miles from the moment he had stunned the sprites... it's not likely he'd have had the time to get fully suited up in his Kylie at all.
So yes, I reiterate: Wes was generous. Wes also had his character offer Miles to stop twice - to which Miles seemingly was not wise enough to pick up both opportunities. This was his way out, his way of still living and still being around and continuing to participate in the Sakura plot. He declined using it.
Mister Gunn had his opportunity to pull off his misguided revenge and went farther than anyone could have had given credit for (especially given his relatively lame tactic of attacking the Sakura from the outside, ha!). He went out with a bang. However, there are consequences to deal up with this which more than warrants Hanako deciding that Miles has been afforded enough leniency and patience and that perhaps he's better off dead.
So, if you still feel sorry for him, don't. Miles had, as far as dying characters go, a much better death than he deserved; especially with how Hanako ended it with the revelation of her first name - which I bet she doesn't share lightly. It was really a kick ass ending and him returning to life would totally cheapen it in a way.
I adamantly disagree.
It might not occur to many people, but Wes has been extremely generous into allowing Miles to end his life in a bang like that. True, it's more something that will have the character remembered notoriously than with any fame...
However, Miles was able to leave the medlab by successfully disposing of the sprites there, reached his armor and actually managed to board it without anyone being the wiser (MEGAMI, what we're you doing? Sitting on your hands?!). He went out and didn't seem to raise much suspicions until he started attacking.
Miles got himself swiftly chopped in half, but he teleported to the bridge and continued being 'active' (if you look at how other nekovalkyrja characters cope with being chopped in half - even in power armor - you'll see that it typically ends the fight, and their lives, with it).
Miles even went so far as get to the shuttle with a captured Hanako and he was about to engineer a plan to try and get to the MEGAMI with the shuttle's aether cannons until finally the NIWS showed up (about time!) and put an end to his threat.
He did a lot of damage and Wes didn't try to stop him as effectively as he could - I would not have had been that generous - I would have had started to act against Miles from the moment he had stunned the sprites... it's not likely he'd have had the time to get fully suited up in his Kylie at all.
So yes, I reiterate: Wes was generous. Wes also had his character offer Miles to stop twice - to which Miles seemingly was not wise enough to pick up both opportunities. This was his way out, his way of still living and still being around and continuing to participate in the Sakura plot. He declined using it.
Mister Gunn had his opportunity to pull off his misguided revenge and went farther than anyone could have had given credit for (especially given his relatively lame tactic of attacking the Sakura from the outside, ha!). He went out with a bang. However, there are consequences to deal up with this which more than warrants Hanako deciding that Miles has been afforded enough leniency and patience and that perhaps he's better off dead.
So, if you still feel sorry for him, don't. Miles had, as far as dying characters go, a much better death than he deserved; especially with how Hanako ended it with the revelation of her first name - which I bet she doesn't share lightly. It was really a kick ass ending and him returning to life would totally cheapen it in a way.
