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Rejected Submission VDTF Orbital Defense Star Fortress

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The Morioka clan page could probably do with a run through the setting submissions forum.
I would like to know why? Gallant has gone into great detail about setting elements built through history and RP. Is there not a concern that if the Morioka clan, which was built through RP utilising only pre-approved races and assets, that gallant was given permission to use by the FM's of the respective factions and NPC assets, that anything built through RP will now be forced into question and require a "Run Through the Setting Submission Forum"? Is there a reason other than "It hs as been brought up and this is the easiest option"? This sounds like a precedent that will only create a lot of work for the NTSE as anything that is on the Wiki, but not in the NTSE Forum would immediately be brought into question.

Even Doshii confirmed that the Morioka Clan does not require submission.
Considering the evolution of the Motoyoshi into the Mitsuya and finally forming up with Morioka, a submission is not required.

However, a little backlinking and sorting of assets and capabilities would be helpful. @Gallant needs to handle that when he returns.
I can, of course, understand the desire to have things sorted and backlinked. I just find it very odd that this has been around since 2013 at least from what I hear, and Gallant has described using it in plots and thread pretty thoroughly. Why was this not brought up then? What is the rulings on Setting Elements built through history and a simple matter of cooperation through PC interaction?

I also found it odd that this was brought up now, by Raz, after the events of Junpu. This whole situation seems fishy, and a call to put the Morioka Clan through the Settings Submission Forum would cause more harm that good in reality, aside from create work for NTSE and players. Like really, despite a point being made on that Origin being better than Morioka Clan for building space stations, that wasn't even mentioned by raz IIRC, this seems like an issue that was brought up specifically to be a hindrance and cause stress, not for any sense of helping. It doesn't help that I am not the only person, even in this thread, that sees it as such an attempt.

To solidify my thoughts, though, I have a question.

For example's sake, as this is an example of how the Morioka clan's formation was explained to me. Say the Vekimen gave Morioka and entire invasion fleet. Morioka has an ENTIRE Invasion Fleet. That includes Space Station, Dreadnoughts, cruisers, battleships, destroyers, and ground force, ect ect ect. This is a massive asset. Did the RP for it, you know? Khelena and Morioka sat down, conversation struck up, Morioka made a pitch and Khelena liked it, Morioka walks out with a massive assault force. Mae it even easier, Khelena already had the fleet to give. Would that need to be approved? Say that Invasion Fleet /became/ the Morioka clan. That's not what it is exactly, but that is how it's been explained to me. That's how the creation of it was explained. It is an amalgamation of setting assets that were given to her by GM's and FM's Characters capable of making those decisions.

OF course, I could be taking the statement at face value @Wes. perhaps you mean that while the Morioka Clan is Canon in the setting, it's pages could use a look over. While this would not threaten the status of this setting element, it would give the NTSE a chance to go through it and do quality control. Not that I think Gallant needs quality control on his writing. Is it just something to make sure that all the clans assets would be appropriately linked and the like?
 
I think the point is that, regardless of whether there is a middle man, the company or organization doing the construction has had their assets approved through traditional channels. A company with the resources capable of constructing a massive space station shouldn't just appear out of nowhere without going through the NTSE. That's all. Good on you for getting at Origin, one of the setting's most prominent and accessible companies, to do the construction work.

As a note, literally nobody once said the Morioka Clan doesn't exist. But its article still needs to be run through the submission process like every other clan or company or organization—barring those created by people who were staff members/admins at the time (which we can all agree was not the case for the Morioka)—if it is to be used as an integral part of new submissions.
this seems like an issue that was brought up specifically to be a hindrance and cause stress, not for any sense of helping. It doesn't help that I am not the only person, even in this thread, that sees it as such an attempt.
I don't really care about what you or anyone else thinks about my intentions because your ideas regarding why I've posted what I have aren't true and have no evidence to back them up. Legitimate concerns about the quality, setting consistency, and procedures required to approve something aren't going to be shoved aside because you don't like what I have to say. I've even been very cordial and direct in the issues I've raised.

There's really no need to inject such drama; just make your submission better.
 
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Morioka stuff aside, I went over the submission and I have a request I'd like to see added:

In the history section, I think it's important for a station this huge (bigger than Yamatai's stations even) to say how exactly the Vekimen are paying for the labor and materials involved in this huge project, and what the timeline is for it to be built.

In the real world, building a dozen aircraft carriers can bankrupt nations, and this station is a much, much larger project than that. We need some sort of believable way that the Vekimen can fund this. Whether it's Origin or Morioka (do they have shipyards?), if the Vekimen are using a contractor the contractor will be asking for a hefty sum for something that will require such manpower. Let's not forget that just a year ago, they arrived on Komodo with basically nothing but what they could carry onto the Yamataian ships that evacuated them. And don't just say rifle sales, the Vekimen guns are cheap and I don't think they'd sell great in Nepleslia and Yamatai, where everyone already has like 3 to 6 guns per person and doesn't need anymore.
 
Morioka stuff aside, I went over the submission and I have a request I'd like to see added:

In the history section, I think it's important for a station this huge (bigger than Yamatai's stations even) to say how exactly the Vekimen are paying for the labor and materials involved in this huge project, and what the timeline is for it to be built.

In the real world, building a dozen aircraft carriers can bankrupt nations, and this station is a much, much larger project than that. We need some sort of believable way that the Vekimen can fund this. Whether it's Origin or Morioka (do they have shipyards?), if the Vekimen are using a contractor the contractor will be asking for a hefty sum for something that will require such manpower. Let's not forget that just a year ago, they arrived on Komodo with basically nothing but what they could carry onto the Yamataian ships that evacuated them. And don't just say rifle sales, the Vekimen guns are cheap and I don't think they'd sell great in Nepleslia and Yamatai, where everyone already has like 3 to 6 guns per person and doesn't need anymore.

The only number, I have personally seen, for figuring out an economy, is for every one unit of a product a PC purchases from a company, 99,999 units are sold to NPC's. I have seen nothing else. The pretence is you can only sell to PC's so if PC's are buying these weapons than NPC's are obviously buying these weapons.

The Vekimen have had 2 weapons for a little while, and have been selling them. The VDP-1 and the VDR-1. They are 75DA and 150 DA respectively.

I have sold over 100,000 of these to PC's alone. Split down the middle, actually, which makes my life really easy. So here is the math.

50,000 VDP-1 costs 3,750,000 DA
50,000 VDP-1 costs 7,500,000 DA
Total: 11,250,000

11,250,000 x 99,999 = 1,125,000,000,000 DA

That is 1.125 trillion DA, or 562 billion KS

The Vekimen are offering 450 Million DA on the labour for the station alone.

The OOSS, which is the only comparable station, costs 50 million KS. This is 2.25x less than what the Vekimen are paying on labour alone. The Vekimen are massively overpaying for this as it stands.

As for the timeline, it's at the bottom in the OOC. After two months, it will be usable as a shipyard and a command centre. By September 22nd OOC, it will be completed. This is much more time than the military build up states.

Yamatai, I don't believe, is in the business of making massive stations. From what I understand, they use them as outposts. Origins is, given they sell the OOSS and the OOSY, even though I don't know the difference between the two.

Is this acceptable? This is far better than what other people on the site have told me which is "Once you start selling product you can ignore finances as you essentially have the right to print money"

Other than rifle sales? I am following the only rules I have ever seen on how to get an idea of how well your "Sales" are doing, and the VD are doing a good job of it. It's an economy. They aren't even leisure weapons. They are like AK's, they are for people to supply armies and shit for cheap, including mercs and pirates.

Furthermore, having this station would remove the need for the Vekimen to spend hundreds of millions of DA on ships and equipment for themselves. One station that would make the Vekimen essentially self-sufficient, or buying ships and the like al the time which costs even more money, especialy seeing as none of them are built for the Vekimen, which means that they have to go through an either pay to have them modified, or modify them themselves and risk damaging or over all breaking the equipment. This way, the only thing that isnt Vekimen built is the FDD drive, which is better than every piece of tech in whatever they buy. Sivaro's are smart, Laderen can learn, but a majority of the population has a general roblem trying to learn new things that aren't built for them.
 
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I'm pretty sure Vekimen's planet also has resources on it that can be sold or even mining rights could be sold. This isn't the kind of purchase you'd pay for upfront any way though. The whole race has probably a couple years to pay it off even if it was on credit. I don't see it being that much of a problem if it's the only mega structure they build. If they were building multiple of these without more planets then yeah it could be a problem, but they have a whole star system of resources, and can likely pay on credit.
 
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Thank you @Syaoran, I keep forgetting I have ownership over a star system with 11 planets including Komodo.

That and yes, this isn't a "Here's 550 million DA, build a station" this can easily be paid off the same way a car, or a house would be paid off, only instead of a couple hundred dollars a month its a couple million which even if the popularity of the VD series of weapons in PC's can't justify a mass amount of sales, it can guarantee more people will know about them, see them, and want them. Any armed forces weapons are often built by the lowest bidder, and if you can make a cheap, effective weapon platform that does its job effectively, and the person buying them doesn't really care about all the bells and whistles, then so far the VD is the best platform I currently know about that is cheap, effective, and easy to use. Any moron can learn to use one, and they are built in such a rugged way that it would take a major screw up to break the weapon.

Is this acceptable?

As for history, I'm curious if when it comes to stations at the very least, could you not just make the page, and then detail the history of specific stations? The ODSF itself is an object. When one actually exists, like the OOSY Dawn Station, it becomes a place with character as RP happens on the station. It develops history much like a character would, as well as gets built up by means of people creating restaurants and shops and the like. This was my personal reason for not building a history section to the station.
 
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Yeah, if you're essentially taking out a loan that's a good explanation. If you're selling mining rights for the cash, that's something a news forum post could cover.
 
You never confirmed anything else in that. Can the VD justify the Vekimen capability to pay this off. As I've said, they have sold over 100,000 to PC's alone. Does this assure at the very least enough popularity to be able to justify the expenses given you seem to have an issue with the idea of them have this money right away. I can accept not getting all those sale immediately, but I should still get those sales.
 
The only number, I have personally seen, for figuring out an economy, is for every one unit of a product a PC purchases from a company, 99,999 units are sold to NPC's. I have seen nothing else. The pretence is you can only sell to PC's so if PC's are buying these weapons than NPC's are obviously buying these weapons.

Mind if I ask where on the forums and/or wiki this number was seen?
 
I don't think selling to PCs assures that you can sell to NPCs, and I think that the sales to player characters was done specify to exploit the old "Sell a million to NPCs for every one sold to a PC" rule, despite the rule not being used in SARP for over a decade. Which is why I've asked for something more believable than rifle sales. None of the military forces of SARP needs to buy rifles from the Vekimen because they have their own suppliers (KFY, NAM, etc) and because they use power armors for all their fighting. And their civilian markets are already flooded with domestic options. If there's anything that the SARPiverse doesn't need more of, it's personnel-scale guns. It's hard to even think of a character in SARP that needs a gun and hasn't already satisfied that need with another product. So who is allegedly buying these? The Vekimen have literally decided to enter the most competitive market in the setting and try to make their profit there and I find it really hard to buy into.

I think the best bet it is to do some sort of financing deal and such say they owe somebody - this also creates an RP opportunity for them to get involved in various schemes to come up with the money, like doing merc work.
 
Well, I didn't say a million, but that is how I understood it and no one ever said the rule was no longer applicable. Honestly, it started out with a handful here or there, then suddenly I was asked if someone could buy tens of thousands and I spat out my drink. I think it's just at a certain point you stop caring. I really don't think Origin or Nova, or really anyone need to worry about their "Income" because they have already worked for it.

I was also under the impression that Yamatai would be REALLY pissed off and cut off all ties with the Vekimen if they did Merc work. Actually, this was a big point of contention between me and you for the longest time when we were initially talking alliances and treaties. I can do Merc work no problem. I can sell mining rights. I'm personally fairly confident that two earth sized planets worth in resources are worth a pretty penny.
 
As long as the mercenaries stay out of Yamatai and don't bother our allies, it's generally not our problem. We discussed that Yamatai would be upset if the Vekimen rape, torture, and enslave on a large scale as Yamatai doesn't want to associate with that, but merc jobs is not a huge deal.

The reason Yamatai doesn't like mercs in the YSE is because the want all of the military power to be in the Star Army. In the past corps had private military forces and these became a problem because they sometimes rebelled and so Yamatai now outlaws private armies. But Yamataian law only covers Yamataian space.
 
Got it. Undergoing political talks now. Can I put the RP of how the first station is affordable on the page for the new station? Not on this overview of the physical object itself. The station as it is has no character. It would be named ones, siilar that to the OOSY Dawn Station which has RP development and character.
 
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Are you saying you intend to build more than one of these??
 
Are you saying you intend to build more than one of these??

I am saying that in the future there is the potential that more can be made. As of right now, there is only ever going to be the one. This was made as a generic station. I'm not in the mind that I can get away with making more than one of these, but in the future that might be a possibility. This is a technical page. Once I get the technical page out of the way, I will make the Settings page.
 
I am saying that in the future there is the potential that more can be made. As of right now, there is only ever going to be the one. This was made as a generic station. I'm not in the mind that I can get away with making more than one of these, but in the future that might be a possibility. This is a technical page. Once I get the technical page out of the way, I will make the Settings page.
There's also the possibility of someone/thing buying one and having it built like the OOSS
 
Got it. Still, the history and background of the station construction should be on the stats page, while the post-completion/RP history would be better on the location: page.
 
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But why? There could be more than one of these stations. I can put a history of its design and detail why it was designed to be as large as it is and everything like that, but details on the specific construction of one station should be left to the Settings page of the completed station IMPO. I'm not trying to be difficult, I am just explaining my reasoning. Nothing exists yet, this is a technical page. That is why I think the "Notable Stations" part is there. So that I can hotlink to the settings age of notable stations, and it will give an actual history and all that fun fluff that is specific to that station.

So I guess, why would the construction of the first one have any bearing to the overall station, and not be more a focus of the individual station?"
 
Okay, then put the construction history details on the location page and put the design history details on the tech page.

When will the location page be done?
 
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